*moved* Police Out of Hand.

Officers are trained to react quickly against any kind of threads...if its a dog or a maniac, instinct and distinction is not something you can easily understand in the middle of all the screaming that was going on. If a guy jumped on his leg, he would've shot the same way. Before we point at the cops and start the old anti-law rebellion, why not look at the lack of training officers have in this area? This isn't anything new, dozens of dogs get shot every year. But yet the academy seems to leave that pretty much out of their
training . As far as stoping suspicious vehicles, if you're on duty and you get a call that a roberry just went on and you see a car farting money off on the highway, you stop that vehicle knowing that you can get shot on the forehead before you even finish saying the word "registration". It's not an easy job, I agree with Phat_Penguin 100%. I feel bad for the officer being sued and for the family that lost their dog. It's unfortunate.

These investigators also puzzle me a great deal. How heavy can a wallet to stay on top of a moving vehicle at highway speed? I have a hardtime keeping my helmet on. Go figure :\

When this event was reported i browsed to the locale where it happened. The HP was the 'assist' to the primary jurisdiction, and it was the HP that released their in-car tape of the event shortly after. The locals (where it happened) were after the primary officer's blood after viewing the news clip (singular, there, btw). The previous two dogs the primary officer had dispatched was one requested by the owner, and another that had gone mad. Anyway, that's how i remember them being reported. Like Phat_Penguin, i'll reserve judgement from my vantage point 1,800 miles away until the local inquiry concludes. After reading the local news from that area, i Googled the phrases "cop shoots dog", and "dog bites cop". Surprising how many around the country were listed, and that doesn't even count the small town papers that are not on-line. Seems some folks keep dogs around as a first-line defence from people like police. Seems some of the police have gotten wise to that practice.
A couple weeks ago a large dog (90+lb) got loose in the neighborhood and was slobbering and chasing everyone on the street, even the cars. i didn't have time to get my pepper-spray as i saw a young school girl headed into the block unaware of the dog who at the time was chasing a man back into his house. As the girl got closer the dog headed for her and i ran out into the street to get between her and the dog, yelling at her to cross the street and get behind me. She started running across, and the dog finally turned towards me as a target. If i'd have had my pepper-spray i'd have used it. If i'd have had a gun it would have been pointed at the dog. With neither in hand, all i could do was stand my ground and not let the dog presume dominance over me, be mentally prepared to take damage while disabling the dog, and sue the s#1t out of the owners after it was all over. The little girl got away, the dog challenged me in the center of the road until the animal-control (a joke term around here) rolled up. The dog finally broke eye contact with me and headed back to where it came from, snarling all the way. The police finally got their noose-sticks and backed the animal into a corner and snared it. They were extremely concerned for thier own safety.
There are a certain number of people who buy, raise, and train large dogs simply for the purpose of aggression, but call it self-defence. Witness for example the recent event in SFO where the pair of fighting dogs from next-door tore the woman apart at her apartment door. Those dogs were being raised by people who knew their only purpose was aggression, and they were breeding/raising them for other people who knew they were only for aggression.
If i was a cop on duty, there is no way i'd allow anyone's dog to bite me.
But that is just my comments on the dog-shooting.
I have a hard time believing the stop in the first place was made with good procedure, perhaps the officers got bum-dope from the dispatcher... but that's up to the investigation panel now.
Like Phat_Penguin says; 'i'll wait for the enquiry to finish'.
Definitely not a good day for anyone involved.
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O.K., thanks I.T.G., i had not seen the video before because i didn't have a player. Just downloaded MSplayer9 to view the THP video. Here's my take for what it's worth: First off, apparently the dispatcher had called this as a "possible bank robbery" from some form of osmosis between dispatch and a phone call from citizen who didn't know anything either except that some money had been seen coming from the vehicle. Second, this was an obvious felony stop, the cops responding knew nothing except what dispatch told them. The problem with the video is that you cannot see far enough to the right to judge the officer's response: The dog comes prancing (as close a term as i can think of right now) out of the car, tail wagging in the air and head high, then disappears off screen. The next thing you see is an officer who had not been in the frame before come dancing backwards into view while shooting, apparently at the animal. officer #2 swings towards the dog also as #1 is shooting, but officer #2 does not fire, because he does not slide his shotgun action to reload before turning back to the stop at hand. Ergo, officer #1 is the only one who shot the dog. Unless the dog suddenly changed attitudes between the time it left the video frame and the time officer #1 came dancing backwards while firing, it is hard to say what precipitated all the hot lead. One thing is for sure; none of us were there to see what actually happened to give the officer cause to drop the hammer. i had expected to see a much different type (and size) of dog from the descriptions of the mix-breed.
And for my opinion on this, along with a buck, you can get a coke out of most machines.

I agree with those who "wont Judge the officer without knowing the story" and having been there. I applaud you actually, If all citizens were more like you, the world would be a better place. I am a law enforcement individual. I have yet to be hired. I have been through the academy, and although I dont have street experience, I REALLY can say this job is going to be tough. I dont think the general public has a full understanding of what the job entails. They see us at the worst times, in their eyes. They see us as we hand them the ticket, as we arrest them for DUI, or other charges, as we interfere with thier "fun". What you do NOT hear is the public saying Im glad that officer was there when I needed him/her. Im glad that officer responded to the medical emergency and did what he could till the paramedics showed up. Im gald that officer had to go and mediate yet another abusive dispute where mom and dad are beating the hell out of each other in front of the kids. Im glad that officer steped in to deal with the raging drunk that spit in his face and puked on him. -- you get the picture.
The general public dislikes being told what to do, or in general, those with the power to interfere with thier "freedom" and "rights". The general public has a made-for-TV education on local laws and many disformed ideas on what cops can and cant do. The next time one of you says "I hate all the cops" do me a favor. Dont call. Do not call the police when you need help. You hate us all. We suck. We are *******s. We give you tickets and arrest "good people for **** that could have been avoided".
Or better yet, pick up a gun, and a badge. Go out there and face the public. Deal with those who hate you because of your job. For those of you who "Hate all cops" Id live to meet you as a plain clothed civillian. Introduce my self as such, get to know you and hell even become friends with you, then tell you Im a cop. COPS ARE PEOPLE WITH LIVES TOO.
And for the individual who was glad a cop gets killed every 57 hours or whatever it was (your not worth quoting directly) kindly shove it as many times as it takes.
A cop is someone who will go above and beyond what he has to do to make you "cop-haters" safe. Are we all perfect. HELL NO. But we are in the magnifying glass. Think about your careers/work enviroments. Is there someone there who doesnt do the job well? Someone who should be fired? someone who shouldnt be there? A boss who treats you badly? Others badly? Hey what do you know, I bet you can think of someone like that, even in other work enviroments. NO ONE IS PERFECT. Yeah, some people shouldnt be cops, some cant handle it. Some are too power hungry. But that DOES NOT mean make a blanket statement.
The media loves to smear a cop. They love "dirty laundry". How many times do you see a cop awarded a medal on national TV? Or even just told he did a good job, or given a promotion? never. Why? its not good for ratings. No one cares. Its not "hot" or "bad". What did everyone do when they saw the cute little puppy get killed? "Ooooh! did you see what that ***** did??"
And how many did they talk to about it? as sex sells, so does dirt.
Maybe the cop screwed up, I wasnt there. I dont know all the sides. I dont care. his superiors will handle this. And this is the "third dog he killed". yep, so? How many criminals has he arrested? Duis off the street? hostile situations averted? drugs confiscated? whats his full record? No one knows. We know he killed a dog. 3 actually. Because the media loves the negative news. Its hot and sells. How much coverage did you all see of the WTC? Did anyone else see the media circus roll up as fast as it could? Yeah, it was a BIG story. Most of the media get a gleam in their eye as they cover it, becuase its hot. Well I think Ive ranted enough. Stop forming blanket opinions of officers, ESPECIALLY if you havent been there.
oh and by the way: I know about 10 cops that are *******S!! but 10 cops verses those I know, and those I have to meet yet, and those all around the country dont mean **** to me. of the 10, 2 are still on the force.

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I have yet to be hired. I have been through the academy, and although I dont have street experience, I REALLY can say this job is going to be tough. I dont think the general public has a full understanding of what the job entails.

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Ok folks lets anaylise this thread a bit...Let me start by saying that I am an adult male 42 years old, no military experience, no law enforcement experience, no criminal experience. I was born on the East Side of Los Angelos, CA. I had to deal with the gangs and violence as a daily occurance. For example my first day in high school I had to dodge bullets being volleyed by gangsters from a rival school driving by in their "low-riders". After they passed on by I brushed the dirt off the knees of my new school jeans and continued on like nothing ever happened. (as did everyone else) The police always wear hard helmuts and carried big guns (44mags mostly) They have to because teenagers are carrying weapons just as big or bigger and congregate in packs of 25 or more. I would not even suggest a person to be a cop in LA, because as one your life is marked with a bullseye on your forhead. The average officer in that area move on after 10 years or so to do something else somewhere else or s/he dies in the streets. This ain't bullsh*t either, ask one of them someday. Because of this the candidates for employment are generally the school bullies, the nerf brained ex-football jocks who have been tackled one too many times, reformed criminals, tough guys hardened because they were mistreated as children... These are the only people either brave enough or stupid enough to enforce laws in those areas. Growing up as a street kid, let me tell you, I was 10 times more afraid of the local residents than I ever was of the cops. Don't misconstue this statement that I was not afraid of the cops, they would gang up on weekend partiers outnumber us 3 to 1 and beat us with sticks and tear gas grenades if we didn't move exactly the way they wanted us to. I too hated the "pigs" (no offense to our law enforcement officials here)

18 years ago I packed up my wife and son and moved to a small town in the midwest and carved out my niche here. The law here are more afraid of answering domestic squabbles here than anything else. they carry small arms and I have never seen one wear a hard helmut, the problem here is that they are all corrupt, if they are like avenger_jcc or Phat_Penguin when they first come on duty, they will either learn to be corrupt or they will quit and become truck drivers and carpenters or buy a farm. I have been told by my local heads of law around here to be sure that I drag the body inside my house, to place a weapon menacingly in their cold hand, and clean up any telltale blood from outside the front door BEFORE calling 911 so I can't be accidentally accused of foul play, this way it is self defense straight up. Here I AM more afraid of the law than I am the criminals. Most of the criminals I know have been forced into it by either the Division of Family Services or the court system. DFS will take kids away from good parents and split up siblings from their homes and stability, and the courts will put the parents in jail, charge them for boarding, cause them to lose their jobs so they can't pay their bills or show any kind of stability to DFS so they can get their kids back, and be placed back in jail for nonpayment of their court-ordered fines and trump up the charges even higher so they will forever be in debt to this county and its corrupted system. This then creates a hardened, pi**ed off at the world, soon to blow individual, that will most likely, out of desparation and lack of respect for the system kill or seriously harm somebody for stepping too close to him in the grocery store.

As for the dog getting shot...If he was afraid of that little dog, he needs to rethink his career choices, if he did it because he is a power hungry as*hole he needs to die...plain and simple!

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Or better yet, pick up a gun, and a badge. Go out there and face the public. Deal with those who hate you because of your job. For those of you who "Hate all cops" Id live to meet you as a plain clothed civillian. Introduce my self as such, get to know you and hell even become friends with you, then tell you Im a cop. COPS ARE PEOPLE WITH LIVES TOO.

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I see entrapment, conditioned by training and brainwashing, this scares the hell out of me!

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Well I think Ive ranted enough. Stop forming blanket opinions of officers, ESPECIALLY if you havent been there. oh and by the way: I know about 10 cops that are *******S!! but 10 cops verses those I know, and those I have to meet yet, and those all around the country dont mean **** to me. of the 10, 2 are still on the force.

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You sound like a truley dangerous individual in this statement. (please don't take offense ) I am sure that avenger_jcc is a very noble person with a goal to uphold the law, and for truth, justice, and the American Way... today.

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I have been a street cop for over 20 years - I am not some pup who fell out of the police academy last week and the difference between you and me I dont wish harm on anyone, regardless of where they come from or who they are. Hate is a very strong word and in the end self-destructive.

I have never used a gun, mace, baton or any other form of force on any person - see my most powerful weapon is my mouth - the ability to communicate with people on all levels has saved me from having to resort to methods preferred by others who dont have the ability to talk to people.

Since cops are an extension of the community they serve, it stands to reason - rough neighbourhood - rough cops - sad fact of life and a shame, but true. I find treating people the same way you yourself would like to be treated goes a long way - and that works both ways. Treat cops like **** all the time and what do you really from them in expect in return - and the same goes for them - treat you like **** all the time - what can they expect of you.

Remember it is very hard to be angry to someone who is extending the hand of friendship and being respectful. Maybe its time for someone to bite the bullet and stop the circle of hate/violence.

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My hats off to you sir, you have been blessed by a good locale and much less volitile local population. Stay where you are, live long and prosper....

I doubt seriously if my rantings in this thread will do any good, and it will probably make some people mad, but this country needs to turn its focus on its own domestics, study the different cultures and live with the low income people for a while and get to know them and see things through other eyes, or this country and all that it stands for will slowly and methodically self destruct...

- aeallison

Wow..I'm not even going to read the restof this. I can't believe this.. one word comes to mind. RETARDED. anyone seen bowling for columbine. No offence to the yankees on this board, and i'm going to get negged to death, but I don't care.. You people need serious gun control and that includes your law enforcement officials, you people are way too Shoot first ask questions later. Meh just like everytihng else... oh well.. Neg away!

Avenger: You sound a little too angry about this subject. I question your ability to hold yourself in check, (as you are supposed to do), when you actually meet one of those "cop haters" face to face in the heat of the moment.

Many years ago I was in Belize, CA flying helicopters for the RAF. We provided Search and Rescue for the entire, predominantly jungle covered, country where the Army operated. Belize has more "bitey" creatures that you can shake a stick at and many are extremely dangerous requiring the SAR aircraft to be there in the absolute minimum amount of time. The accommodations were situated 1 1/2 miles around the airfield from the aircraft hangers and in an area at the back of the accomodations was the laundry which had been having soldiers gear being stolen from it for some weeks and nothing had been achieved by the Royal Military Police officers stationed there.

One day a medevac call came in for a snakebite deep in the jungle. Time is _absolutely_ of the essence. The ground crew get called first and, with a huge big "SAR" plate on the front of their vehicle begins to travel to the aircraft to drag it out and prep it for the aircrew who are called second with the required info to get them to the target.

Well, the RMP's had a new toy - a radar gun - and the speed limit on camp is 15 mph. The dear sweet unpaid, unwanted Corporal RMP leaps out in front of the groundcrew vehicle and stopped it. He gleefully informed the driver that he was exceeding the speed limit by travelling at 17 mph...... 2 damn miles per hour over.... He then proceeded to lean on the front of the vehicle to fill out his paperwork..... Being military paperwork it is both lengthy and being filled out by a person with an IQ lower than would probably be optimal. After several minutes he returned to the window for further details at which point the driver said "I suppose this means you have caught the ******* stealing all our kit from the laundry" and promptly drove off.

When we, (the aircrew), arrived at the hanger the aircraft was still not pulled out and prepped. Our launch was delayed some eight or nine minutes. That is 8 or 9 minutes that the highly trained medic we take with us on snakebite calls was late to the victim...... That amount of time with certain of the snakes in that theater makes the difference between the soldier surviving or dying..... This time the RMP was lucky.... The bite was from a fairly benign but still poisonous snake and the victim was not allergic.

Upon my return I was approached by the driver and asked if I could help him with the RMP issue he now faced - the traffic ticket had now escalated - obviously. I negotiated with their boss and all charges were dropped on this occasion and for the future the RMP's were ordered that if SAR vehicles were travelling outbound they were to turn a blind eye - if they were going any other direction - they were fair game.

The point of the whole story: The general perception amongst the "civilian" population is that there are crimes upon crimes taking place in our communities many of which go unresolved. On many occasions we are told that you don't have the manpower to investigate this or that. When we do get any satisfaction upon filing a complaint the process requires a ton of time and effort on our part only to see it shelved a week later. But just wait till you go 7 miles per hour over the speed limit...... WTF is that all about..... There are plently of cops sitting by the roadside with their radar on who are only too willing to drop a ticket on you for such petty ****. Yet we are told that the manpower is lacking or there is nothing we can do about X, Y or Z. So the phrase "I suppose this means you have caught all the drug dealers, pimps and murderers......." always jumps to my mind when I see the traffic stops and the other, (revenue generating), crap that goes on.

Don't be surprised if you are disliked when you bother people for little stuff and give a darned fine impression to many that you can't handle the tougher stuff or that you can't be bothered to try.

RIDER: This is not so much a criticism of police but the administrators above who prioritize their tasks. I have the utmost respect for most police officers. But I can understand why your reputation is somewhat tarnished and it is up to you to alter that image. You don't _have_ to issue that ticket..... A warning usually suffices with most law abiding citizens.... So issue the warning..... If your boss doesn't like the amount of revenue you are generating then tough **** - go and catch some real criminals and he can't really say ****, can he?

okay, this is not an attack on cops, but why are they not so helpful anymore? It is about as rare to see a cop help someone as it is to see another person to help someone broke down on the side of the road. On my way into work this morning I was almost in an accident. A guy was broke down in the middle of the road on a blind curve and two cops passed me prior to me making it to that curve. Why wouldn't one pull a couple feet back behind him a run his flashers till a tow truck came or something. Also I was at a show and towards the end a couple guys 2 or 3 cars would not start, so one of the guys asked an officer for assistance, the officer agreed and then 5 mins later you see all three cars dispearse and two went up the street and parked, the guys walked up the street to inquire again and there is one cop getting coffee and the other said we are busy right now. during the 45 mins they sat there the cops continued to "read the newspapper and drink coffee" and then drove away.

avenger you are good at dodging bullets obviously, the way you implied people but never said names or gave quotes. ill tell you what though, everything you said just reinforced EVERYTHING that i said. listen to your self. if you gonna be a good cop good, great, grand. but if it pisses you off so bad that there are people out there like me then what you should be doing is getting your self into some kinda politcal position so that other cops, like every single one ive encournted has been, are no longer allowed to be on the force. instead of blaming me and people with my views, you need to be taking a look at yourself. if i was the only person in the country that hated cops then i would just be dumb, BUT, when you start getting millions of people saying the same thing then theres obviously a problem and btw aeallison i know exactly where your comin from. sounds like you and me grew up in the same conditions just on opposit sides of the country, which only goes to prove a point. that corruption and over reacting cops arent just a problem in one place, its everywhere.and i will not post in this thread again, but i will part with one more thought, the public(and by that i mean people that do not involve themselves with murder or rape etc,etc those people do deserve to be locked up) are not the ones that grain it into your guyses heads that your job is dangerous, you guys do it to your self. your told from the moment that you get in the academy that you will get shot if... or you will mess up if you think..... and you guys start to believe it so much that every person you encounter is a criminal before you even get to asess the problem. and what are you taught to do to criminals, beat them, shoot them, f--k up there lives etc, etc, i take a look at myself everyday and think to myself, what can i do to make my life better. you cops should be sayin the same thing about the people you help, what can you do as a person, not a cop to make that persons life better, cause your supposed to keep them safe right? well keeping them safe is the same as making there life better, so before you bust the kid doin 60 in a 65 when no one else is on the road, think is me givin this kid a ticket gonna help anything? probably not. anyways im done, im sure everyone hass gotten my point so ill shutup and go away.take it easy people.

Well I can see the amount of narrow minded people we have here. For those of you who feel I wouldnt be able to keep my cool when faced with a cop hater, heh. Whatever. You have a opinion, and you have a right to hate me. you have a right to hate any cop, based on what some cop has done in the past. You have the right to spit on me because I pull you over for breaking the law. *shrug* you can go on hating cops. I honestly dont care, it just shows that your biased. Ive had bad expierences with medical personel. Guess they are all *******s. Ive had bad experiences with my military captain. All captains are *****s, right? no. Ive met some wonderful medical people, and some wonderful military people in my career in the army. So what do I think? Each person is a different one, and each one gets their own judgement. I try t remain as open as I can to each person. But when someone is as closed minded to a entire group of people because of something some INDIVIDUAL did... well that irratates me. Now as I said that would not mean my actions toward the person would be unjust.
And for those of you who have such a problem with traffic stops ("I suppose this means you have caught all the drug dealers, pimps and murderers.......") the majority of them are found while driving. its called a warrant check, a vehicle search, and a registration check. Do I agree with all the citations given out? Nope. Ive recieved lots when I dont think I should have, but I do agree I was breaking the law. Follow the laws and unless you were a real ******* the NORMAL cop wont bother you. Again, there are cops that dont belong in the job. but there are some of us who go the extra mile to attempt to fight the corruption, and make up for those of us who refuse to live up to the standards the job implies.
Now, form all your opinions of me if you want. But I intend to do the job the best I can, and I intend to make as much of a difference as I can. And for those of you who hate me for what I do, and not who I am, thats your right. Do as you must. Ill still do my job to serve you, and protect you, as my job mandates. Thats because its my job that I chose, and I chose this because I grew up around corrupt cops. I intend to try to break that circle.

Ive done enough posting on this, feel free to continue to rag on me as I stand for those of you officers out there who do the job right. I dont care. they dont care. they will do the job to the best of thier ability, hated or not. And for those of you who tarnish the image (you know who you are) shape up. take some pride in what you do and help to restore the american publics trust.

avenger_jcc,

I think you may have gotten the wrong impression of my post, for that I am sorry. I do not hate cops in general. It is just that my past and present experiences are not real good. As for you personally I do believe you at what you are saying. I am a member of an advocate group of citizens
in my community that see to it that our law enforcement, city and county officials, etc ... Don't misuse or abuse our resources, or our citizens. I could write a book on the blatant misuse of city and county funds, of mistreatment of the local populace ranging from harrassment to murder, Con artists are allowed to con our citizens just because their Daddy was a member of the HomeTown Boys, cops collect on traffic tickets from underage girls in the city park. The law here starts on brainwashing our children from gradeschool on up, they start off with scaring the little kids with their D.A.R.E. program and many of these kids have turned in their parents to the authorities because they "think" their parents are breaking laws, only to be placed in a foster home for even worse abuse. By the time our children are young adults, they are so intimidated by these power mongers that they make every effort to leave this town. My own son is soon to be 21 and still does not drive, he has never gotten his license, because he is afraid of the possibility that he will be harrassed like his friends are, only my son would not take it lying down, I would be bailing out of jail for assault on an officer. Every person that has come here with your hopes and dreams has either been corrupted, run off, or worse...

I have very good friends in law enforcement, my cousin is an assistant prosecuting attourney in St. Louis. I would be a deputy myself if our dept wasn't a bunch of puppets tied to a puppet master who is un-touchable...

- aeallison