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I think a lot of you misunderstand my point.
Without UK involvement, the US would have attacked Iraq a long time ago, for sound military reasons (like the fact it is getting very hot & how long can we keep US troops on the ground).
The UK went out of it's way to try and pursuade the US to delay any action until the UN had a chance to vote on the resolution - which was unitalerally vetoed by France.
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Originally posted here by neel
I read it in a dutch paper somewere a little while ago. I don't remeber the exact figures, but it was along these lines: "Top veto use: 1.USA(about 150) 2.France and Russia (with Iraq included 10 each) ...". Now what the hell are they whineing about then. It's ethicaly wrong for france to use their veto if the security counsil had a majority for a war? Why the hell do we have a veto for? What the hell is majority if the biggest nations use their veto, so they seem to be against? Is the use of a veto the US used so many many times wrong or something? Why is france cowardly when it stands up against the worlds most powerfull nation, only protected by our very very thin layer of civilisation.
I knew people who fully agreed with the US of A and thought it was a strong, diciplined and well coordinated etc. nation. After reading the bullshit of freedom fries and whatever ALL of them lost their trust. Now they all see Americans as the fat stupid arses who appear to be in front of the tv watching funniest home videos all day with a XXXXL bag of popcorn. << Really happened.
heheheheQuote:
Anonymous
Not all in USA are for the war, not all in USA have fat stupid arses, although, I would gladly sit my fat stupid arse on your cheese eating face.
I respect your opinion, but you just confirmed the stereotype image for an american dutch people have. Not only because you say you have a fat stupid arse, but also because you can't read ;). I bet you'll be the president in no time. I said in my post some friends of mine thought you were the fat ass type people. I just think you all look pretty much the same as people here in europe, many of you (not all !) are just childish and blind to many things... That makes many of you (not all !) look stupid, not because of this message or anything ;). I just wanted to say this for a change and it feels pretty good. I mean, you are pretty stupid aren't you ? :p
Woah, I wonder if you have a secret admirer neel. Hmm, I also did not know you were that big fan of cheese either... hmmm strange reply.Quote:
I would gladly sit my fat stupid arse on your cheese eating face.
But who gives a crap.
Well the one who said this is either or underaged, and isn't to be blamed to be ignorant, or just had aQuote:
My view from this side of the pond is that the French are to blame for starting this war
30 year long vacation as a robinson crusoe.
I can only second neel's opinion on this one, not talking as dutch but as a belgian.Quote:
I respect your opinion, but you just confirmed the stereotype image for an american dutch people have.
Well, I'm still AGAINST this war and always will be.
Greetz,
I like to stay out of these debates, but today at least, I feel the need to chime in.
It should be said here that in a survey shortly after the idiotic "freedom fries" incident at Capitol Hill as well as many restaurants etc, 70% of US citizens thought it was ridiculous. I don't know who did the poll(NBC maybe), but I heard it on CNN and National Public Radio.
Everyone I know here in the US, on all sides of the iraq issue, thinks this was just plain stupid.
What does it mean when one is calling americans stupid using a single issue, when one does not even have an accurate picture of what americans think on the issue?
I'm sure that I could find a few marginal voices in any country which said or did similarly stupid things. If I then stereotyped everyone in that country based on the actions of a minority, I would be ridiculed, and rightly so.
I am getting really sick of the constant statements that everyone in the US is stupid, or ignorant, or arrogant. There are people who are for the war, and there are people against the war. Many members of both groups are stupid, many are not. Ditto with ignorance and arrogance. The same can be said for people in Europe, Asia, Africa, Middle East ........
;)
It's ignorant to say I stereotype anyone when I don't. My friends wich I did mention in my first post don't think that either. My friends know not all americans are fat ass whatever, but they like to call them that way. And whatever the figures are, it seems like the majority fits in the dumb rediculous childish part, you all call it yourself. As for me, I had more experience with dumb americans then with dumb africans or azians or whatever. That doesn't say american people are dumber in general. It's my experience, and only very few people got me convinced they're not dumb and fat and etc.. Me personal. On the other hand I think it can be possible that there are more dumb people in the US then in for instance Africa. I'm not talking about IQ or technologie, but those factors can affect those things. It's a bit bullshitting on the subject, but I never heard anyone from Africa say something stupid.
hehe whatever, most of you won't get my point anyways ;)
I'm of to sleep, see you all laters.
btw, did you neg me ? :p
Neel, I did not say that you did stereotype, I was just speaking generally about a lot of people, on this site and elsewhere. This post was simply a convenient place to vent a bit.
If I were accusing you of something, I would have come right out and said it. As it is, I used the word "one" meaning some person. i.e. if one does this, or if one did that....
As for your friends, if they call us that they are stereotyping. If they say it arround me, I have no choice but to assume they believe it. If I am told of their saying it, I have to believe(assuming I trust the person who tells me) that they believe it.
I have never heard someone from africa say something stupid either, of course, all the africans I have interacted with were at top notch universities or companies.
This certainly seems a bit like a stereotype though. You say you do not stereotype all americans as dumb, and then immediately go on to say you think most of them are dumb? So because you only think 99 percent of them are dumb, you are not stereotyping because it isnt 100%? Or even 60 % instead of 100%? If you met an american today, she would have to prove to you the she was not stupid?Quote:
the majority fits in the dumb rediculous childish part
Seems to me that if you have to be convinced that someone isnt dumb, then you are in fact STEREOTYPING them. You are prejudging them.Quote:
and only very few people got me convinced they're not dumb and fat
And calling me ignorant, for my saying you are stereotyping, which I did not, untill the last post seemed to indicate it to me due to the quotes I added above.
I suppose that we may be simply having an issue with the nuances of the english language, and I am misunderstanding what you have said, but it seems pretty clear that when you say someone has to convince you they are not dumb because they are american, you are stereotyping. Am I wrong now?Quote:
It's ignorant to say I stereotype anyone when I don't
And no, I didnt neg you. Assuming that the neg was unsigned, else you wouldn't be asking, why would I neg you anonymously, and then jump into the conversation in a way which would tend to incriminate me? Seems to me that if I wanted to be anonymous on a neg I would avoid this discussion like the plague.
I actually agree with you and the others that the US should not be in a war with Iraq. I just get aggravated when I am lumped into the stupid american category. Whoever it was that negged you doesn't help to reduce that stupid american stereotype, but increases it, as you have said which is the exact opposite of what I want to achieve.
Some boycott France because France is against the war but do they boycott the baker because he's against the war ? At lunch time do they choose a restaurant that is for the war ? Do they boycott there firm because there boss is against the war ? I don't think so. Boycotting a country for a reason like this one is purely stupid. I hear that a deputy or senator wants to rapatriate the americans who were killed during the WWII. And after what ? The statue of liberty have been made by a french so USA must destroy it. And what if the french ask for the french who were killed in 1777 when Lafayette save US from the UK ? All the things that US (part of them) can tell against the french, french can tell the same things against the US. If we have not the same idea, we can debate about it and that is why the world go on.
Some people say this and I want to have your opinion about it :
Mr Bush will win the war but he has already loose the peace.
Personally I'm agree. "Bush will win the war" yes since the US is the 1st army in the world and when we see that there is no iraqi army. "he already loose the peace" yes since half of the world was against the war and are still against. Bush say that iraq have chemical weapons, mass destructive weapons but after 3 weeks of war we have still nothing so I don't know how he will explain his act if nothing will be discover.
And to some person in this thread, France have never said that they wants to be in araq after the war. France said only that it's the role of UN.
I'll finish my last post a bit because it's a mess. From top to bottom ;).
Well like you, IchNiSan, my previous post was a reply to yours, but not an accusion or whatever directed to you as a person. The same is for this post. This is a nice place to vent a bit like you said ;). It's just that I notice the "problem" on AO more because of the anonymous antipoint system (removes the barrier of honour and flame) and just the big number of Americans on here.
I ment that non-US people aren't the people who seem to be stereotyping, but the US people themselves seem to do. Other people do to because everyone does. In my opinion when I say "it is blablabla" that doesn't have to be pointed at the one I was replying to... That was probably my fault... english is my 3rd language.Quote:
It's ignorant to say I stereotype anyone when I don't. My friends wich I did mention in my first post don't think that either.
If anyone from the US would tell I eat eat cheese and wear clogs or something I would take that as a joke. I know people have enough knowledge to know we don't. I know people say that to express the view that exists in another country and to say whatever mistical reason they have.Quote:
As for your friends, if they call us that they are stereotyping. If they say it arround me, I have no choice but to assume they believe it. If I am told of their saying it, I have to believe(assuming I trust the person who tells me) that they believe it.
This is more a internet example case. My friends like to refer to americans as the fat arse type, if they're talking about the iraq war or in any case they find it a funny effect to call them that way. It's like calling some one a treehugging hippy because he's against war. Not because that person hugs trees or like the type of person all hug trees, just to show you have a specific group of people you think are just for example "dumb". They don't agree with you and have bad reasons to say that or are calling you names... whatever a weak discussion might look like on the internet. It's just like people do, calling those people some kind of stereotype view if they're talking to friends who agree with that view. The know the people you are talking about aren't hugging trees or whatever.Quote:
My friends know not all americans are fat ass whatever, but they like to call them that way. And whatever the figures are, it seems like the majority fits in the dumb rediculous childish part, you all call it yourself. As for me, I had more experience with dumb americans then with dumb africans or azians or whatever. That doesn't say american people are dumber in general. It's my experience,
Well, here I had a bit enough of it already ;). It is stereotyping if you take everything seriously. People don't have to cinvince me if they're stupid or smart. That would be some arrogant ****. Here on the internet though I'm not prejudging people, but showing the figures already in my head from experience. It just is a fact I see many of the people on the internet being like a dumb arse (me included when I feel like it... I don't want to look like a big hypocrit). The example of Africa was a stupid and weak example, it was a bad attempt to show culture has connections with the way people act. African people don't have as many internet acces as US people, but they also have other things to worry about. They grow up in a different environment were it's just not possible to act like a dumb arse, because you don't say things you're not sure of or were you've got no proof of(unlike many many people here on AO and on the internet)... That is for a part because you don't have all the same things to talk about, but also because you grew up practical. If you have something in your mind it's because you mean it and in your opinion it's helpfull to the situation. I'm talking about the normall african people, who are in general less rich then Americans or Europeans.Quote:
and only very few people got me convinced they're not dumb and fat and etc.. Me personal. On the other hand I think it can be possible that there are more dumb people in the US then in for instance Africa. I'm not talking about IQ or technologie, but those factors can affect those things. It's a bit bullshitting on the subject, but I never heard anyone from Africa say something stupid.
Now I know my english is crappy and I think this post still is a mess. I know from experience I forgot important things, but I'll add those later, or in a responce to someone complaining about another fragment in my post. I'm not directing it to anyone specific altough I'm replying to a specific post.
Getting sick of being pushed in the group of dumb americans all the time is not nice, but every time it turns out the man who said it didn't mean it that way, just like I said already to make it a bit funny and sarcastic, to show you are against those persons motives.
My post was an addition to the original anti french manace and I was pointing out that not only americans view the french as whatever, but that thing directly influences the view the rest of the world has on americans. The whole world knows not all people are that way, but there are a lot if it get's spread to the world that the americans "as an example" are behaving like children.
I got a reply to that wich pointed out the guy who wrote that had absolutely no clue were I was talking about and still he/she dared to send me the message. That is only possible in on the internet, in a sort of anonymous flaming corner, with for the most part an american stereotype kind of character. The guy (I think because there are more male the female on AO) is probably more complicated then the simple view of a stereotype, but I wanted to show stereotypes are stupid and those stereotypes are the way they are for a reason. Many people seem to behave for a part like the stereotype, else there wouldn't be that specific stereotype.
The last post was a bit drunk, but I hope a explained a little better in this one. That last one to was ment as another message as it litterally said.
Neel out again. See you next time.
Alright neel, I comprehend.
Nuance and jokes sometimes don't come through to well in type, especially accross languages.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
8)