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When I need to pump out a quick lil app.. I always use VB... it might not be as clean but it definately saves me time.
I have to sit and wonder....
I wasn't around when c/c++ broke out onto the scene (wasn't old enough). But how many assembly programs made the same argument. You go from having to do everything yourself langauges that compiled and interpret the machine code for you and then you get programming languages like c/c++ that have their header files, so that the nasty part of the coding is already written and defined for you saving you time. When you look at it VB and now ACE are no different, you still have to do work.. The type of work you have to do has changed.
IceStorm commented on non-programmers and then in the same paragraph changed this to non-technical people. There is a difference here. I am a non-programmer. I could claim I'm a program because I code in like every major langauage, but in many of them I'm not efficient or very skilled. Doesn't mean I'm non-technical. I'm a very technical person. Solving complex programming problems won't really be a problem if it's all point and click. How do I make it do this? Well I drag this box over here and drop it. I know several "programmers" who can't see the solution in their head. They flow-chart it and code it and debug it and test it again. Where as other's can see what to do, they just have to figure out what code to apply to it. I'll give you an example. My friend is redoing his website (all php w/ mysql). He messages me when he can't get something and tells me the problem. In less than 5 minutes usually I can give him a solution. I won't know the correct code to do it, but I'll know how to solve it. If all I had to do was point and click, I'd have no problem, even now I can just browse for the code to do what i want and then manipulate the commands. Also he mentioned Algorithms and Data types.. Again. wouldn't be needed. If I have a box that will hold numbers and a box that will hold letters and a box that will hold both and a box that will hold 1 letter... and so on... I know what needs to go into that box, so i just select the one I need. That's why it's point and click, they won't have to define data types. As for algorithms... It's just another word for a step-by-step problem solving procedure. Someone who doesn't know how to problem solve, prolly shouldn't be working. So they won't be able to develop they algorithm in code, they don't have to, they just point and click.
I've thought about this more since my last post, and from a security point of view, I don't like the idea of anybody being able to code. However from a business owner's point of view. I love it. The ability to easily and quickly develop small apps is great. Say you are running a focus group, suddenly you need a program to handle the data from the group, instead of the person having to contact their IT Dept, or an outside company. If all employees are trained (a small seminar on basic use of the GUI and then a few people with intensive training (i'm guessing it wouldn't take a whole late if it's all point and click) and boom, your program is ready and no one had to wait for it.
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Everyone keeps refering to "tools" for coding, like anything else you need the right tools for the job. I would'nt use ASM to write a wep app, and I would'nt write a graphics driver in VB. (I wouldnt use COBOL for ....um what do you use COBOL for? :))You can never eliminate the lower level languages- what would all the higher level ones be written in??
Regards,
-Maestro
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I see a spot opening for young crackers, to accomplish a popup box and call theirselves coders. I see them taking the new found confidence and pushing it to illegal limits much like those children today. Downloading garbage software, things like trojans. With no real knowledge of how they work, why they work the way they do, and how these things they are doing is possible. They just like to believe that they are in control of more than what surrounds them, when in fact they control nothing more than a GUI. Take this away and you have children again. Take it away from a real coder, and he builds his own.
This point can be argued, and without doubt; it will be. This is just my opinion...
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i just realized... isn't the title of this thread an oxymoron ? :)
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Quote:
Originally posted here by er0k
i just realized... isn't the title of this thread an oxymoron ? :)
Yup, and so is the ID10t who started it......
:P
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I do like the simplicity offered by "Point and Click" programming, but for me it tends to take the fun out of programming. Programming on your own tends to give you a sense of pride at having truly created something, through your own skills. The new trend is creation through the skills of others. It almost seems like forgery.
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I have some experience usig a CASE tool http://www.genexus.com called genexus, it is very powerful generates apps ina C, VB, java even C#. It is pretty much point and click programming. But it still has its mistakes generating code sometimes which need to be fixed by hand coding, which means even if you create an app using a CASE tool programming knowledge is still needed.
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Just a Tangent; ne one here know ALGOL?
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I believe that visual programming languages are nasty. For example i've studied at school in this year visual fox. it was awfull. every time i sit in my desk and i looked on the walls cause i wasn't interested. so i went to my informatics classes a year for nothing
