Do you believe in god?

Quote:

---

if God is so powerful why does he let men and women harm and kill one another. and create weapons that could wipe out the entire planet. I think if he really did exist he would of put a stop to wars before they even started.

---

I think this is the best question/point raised by anyone so far (even if it is over-used). I know a lot of people who struggle with that....especially one girl I know who's fiancé (sp?) died. According to Christian doctrine...God turned the world over to Satan's control...except with a leash. God apparently can't face sin, and since the world is full of sin..... Jesus is the only link between us (the world) and God. I know people who can explain it better, and I know that the fact that man has the freedom to do whatever he chooses also plays a really big part in it all...but I hope this helps.

Quote:

---

science disproves that God exist but come o n besides that there is nothing.

---

:what: I hate stupid people.... Ok, ok, I'll bite. Wtf are you talking about? Every proven theory in science and everything ever found in archaeology supports scripture. I challenge you to find one proven fact or discovery that "disproves that God exists". Oh, and I guess I'll warn you that I can take anything from the theory of evolution and turn it around to better support the theory of Creation. (this is not bs....I just spend a lot of time with this stuff).

Quote:

---

/me waits for the "It's true because it's in the Bible"-comments...

---

:D I like that one. But if I were to use something like that I'd have to prove that the Bible is infallible...which I can make an excellent case for but probably not in one post.

Quote:

---

hell they all claim to accept the other faiths in each others books.

---

I am a Christian (prob figured that one out already) and I do not accept doctrines from either Judaism or from the Muslim faith....but that doesn't mean I disrespect people that have those beliefs. I've even got a few athiest friends. It bothers me and I don't agree with them but we're still friends.

Quote:

---

You can if you have a tiny small particle with an infinite mass... that's not 'nothing', but close to nothing...

---

Very true...but where did the "close to nothing" particle come from? Either it's always existed or there is a God that has always existed that...either created this particle or, as I believe, created the whole universe as it is today (well...close ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by keezel

I think this is the best question/point raised by anyone so far (even if it is over-used). I know a lot of people who struggle with that....especially one girl I know who's fiancé (sp?) died. According to Christian doctrine...God turned the world over to Satan's control...except with a leash. God apparently can't face sin, and since the world is full of sin..... Jesus is the only link between us (the world) and God. I know people who can explain it better, and I know that the fact that man has the freedom to do whatever he chooses also plays a really big part in it all...but I hope this helps.


:what: I hate stupid people.... Ok, ok, I'll bite. Wtf are you talking about? Every proven theory in science and everything ever found in archaeology supports scripture. I challenge you to find one proven fact or discovery that "disproves that God exists". Oh, and I guess I'll warn you that I can take anything from the theory of evolution and turn it around to better support the theory of Creation. (this is not bs....I just spend a lot of time with this stuff).


:D I like that one. But if I were to use something like that I'd have to prove that the Bible is infallible...which I can make an excellent case for but probably not in one post.


I am a Christian (prob figured that one out already) and I do not accept doctrines from either Judaism or from the Muslim faith....but that doesn't mean I disrespect people that have those beliefs. I've even got a few athiest friends. It bothers me and I don't agree with them but we're still friends.


Very true...but where did the "close to nothing" particle come from? Either it's always existed or there is a God that has always existed that...either created this particle or, as I believe, created the whole universe as it is today (well...close ;) )

---

Preach it brother

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by noODle
I hope noone takes offense of this because it is not intended to offend anyone.
I was surfing the net a while back and I stumbled across this which I found funny
<humor>
0wr F4th3R, wh0 0wnz h34\/3n, j00 r0x0rs! M4y 4|| 0wr b4s3 s0m3d4y Bl0ng t0 j00! M4y j00 0wn 34rth juss |1|3 j00 0wn h34\/3n. G1v3 us th1s d4y 0wr w4r3z, mp3z, 'n pr0n thr0ugh a ph4t |. 4nd cut us s0m3 sl4ck wh3n w3 4ct lik3 n00b l4m3rz, juss 4s w3 g1v3 n00bz 4 l34rn1n wh3n th3y l4m3 2 us. Pl34s3 d0n't l3t us 0wn s0m3 p00r d00d'z b0x3n wh3n w3'r3 t00 p1ss3d t0 th1nk 4b0ut wh4t's r1ght 4nd wr0ng, 4nd 1f j00 c0uld k33p th3 f3i 0ff 0wr b4ckz, w3'd 'pr3c14t3 1t. F0r j00 0wn 4ll 0wr b0x3n 43v3r 4nd 3v3r, 4m3n!
</humor>

---

That's just too damn funny, noODle!! I love it!! :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by cheyenne1212


Show me where it says that bballad. Show me in any religious book where they all accept each other.

---

I am guessing that you have never read the Koran? In the opening it says t o respect the peoples of the book for they worship ahlla. The people of the book being Zorastrians (judiasim devloped from zorastarins, and theis is the group the wise men of the bible came from.), Jews, Christians. The Koran then goes on to call Moses and Jesues and Mohamid the three grate profits (this is where much of the disppute comes in) Face it Judism/Muslim/chiristianity are all basicly the same religion with some minor dogmatic disputes. This is probably what makes the wars between them so vicious, they all want to prove that they worship god/ahlla/yhawa corretly.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by whizkid2300
I have to say why is it that people commonly equate (spell check) God and Science ok yeah science disproves that God exist but come o n besides that there is nothing.

Whizkid2300

---

Now I am probably the biggist proponent of education and understanding here, I won't stand by while people say god did it so there is no eveolution..I will also not stand by for this comment. Nothing in the scientific relm can ever prove or disprove the existance of god(or gods). This would be something outside of our physical realm and hen dealing with disaplins that deal with the natural laws its unknowable.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by keezel


:what: I hate stupid people.... Ok, ok, I'll bite. Wtf are you talking about? Every proven theory in science and everything ever found in archaeology supports scripture. I challenge you to find one proven fact or discovery that "disproves that God exists". Oh, and I guess I'll warn you that I can take anything from the theory of evolution and turn it around to better support the theory of Creation. (this is not bs....I just spend a lot of time with this stuff).


:D I like that one. But if I were to use something like that I'd have to prove that the Bible is infallible...which I can make an excellent case for but probably not in one post.

---

On the first Iwould love to see some scientific evadence for creationism that dosn't involve "well eveolution as we curently understood it dosn't explain this 100% so it must be wrong therefor we have ID). If you have some evadence that stands up on its on merit please share.

As for the bible being unfailable how do you explain the contradictory versions of genisis....besides whos bible (hopefuly not the king james or any thing based on it)as a lot of them contradict each other. and do we include the works of apostials that where orionaly excluded by the roman church, that have never been reentered (in which you have staments about jesues earily life and siblings.)

Quote:

---

I am guessing that you have never read the Koran? In the opening it says t o respect the peoples of the book for they worship ahlla. The people of the book being Zorastrians (judiasim devloped from zorastarins, and theis is the group the wise men of the bible came from.), Jews, Christians. The Koran then goes on to call Moses and Jesues and Mohamid the three grate profits (this is where much of the disppute comes in) Face it Judism/Muslim/chiristianity are all basicly the same religion with some minor dogmatic disputes. This is probably what makes the wars between them so vicious, they all want to prove that they worship god/ahlla/yhawa corretly.

---

I know that all three religions teach that a person should be accepted/loved no matter what he/she does or believes, however they also teach that we are *not* to accept their teachings or accept what they've *done*. (respect, not accept). Judiasim has been around since before documented history (except of course for the historical accounts in the Bible)...so how can you possibly say it came from something else? Hell, according to the Bible, Judaeism began in the beginning when Adam had to sacrifice an animal to cover his sins (after the...bad fruit episode of course). The Koran would acknowledge that Moses, Jesus, and Mohamid are the three great prophets bc they believe that Islam is just the new version of Christianity....kinda. Islam, however, is totally different from Christianity because they do not believe that Jesus is God (part of the Trinity, but still completely God as he was at the same time completely man...cool theory and reasoning behind this one, you should check this one out too). Christianity is *based* on the belief that Jesus is God (not just a prophet) and that the only path to heaven is through him bc God cannot interact directly with a world full of sin....or a person full of sin. The practice of sacrifice from Judaeism is no longer needed bc Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice. I believe that instead of attacking something you seem to know little about, you should instead focus on supporting your own theories of evolution. In return, I'll try and present/support my own theories (sometime after breakfast....).

Quote:

---

As for the bible being unfailable how do you explain the contradictory versions of genisis....besides whos bible (hopefuly not the king james or any thing based on it)as a lot of them contradict each other. and do we include the works of apostials that where orionaly excluded by the roman church, that have never been reentered (in which you have staments about jesues earily life and siblings.)

---

I guess from the start I should say I prefer the NIV, although I read other versions on occasion...so nobody attack me or the version, k? I've seen things that seemed to be contradictory...until you look at the original Greek text that the two passages from different versions came from and from that you can clear up every single apparent contradiction. I have not yet taken Greek at school, so don't ask me to translate a verse into the language for you. "a lot of them contradict each other" is not true, there are very few times when they seem to contradict each other, and when you look at the original Greek text, it becomes obvious why they contradict each other. King James translated it the way *he* wanted it to sound several times (which is very unfortunate). I do not include the works of the apostals that have been removed, meaning I don't think they were directly from God, but that doesn't mean they are great books to be read. Besides, why do you care if the Bible is infallable or not? Has anyone used a verse yet claiming that "it's right bc the Bible says so"?

Now it's time to go eat something, lol. Thanks cheyenne1212 ;)

-Keezel

*edit*
Not sure what I was thinking....I forgot to say that Old Testament was originally in Hebrew (mostly) and New Testament was in Greek....but you get the point....one cannot say it contradicts itself until one looks at the original text.

Ok I have not read the rest of this yet I will in about a minute, Got to post something to Radical though,

Hey Rad. You believe in God, Are you a sceintist? The reason that I ask these questions a sheerly because, Sceince is based off of fact proof things that have a general answer or theory. So along those lines you can not believe God exist if you are a Serious Scence buff.

Think about there is no actual proof that there is a higher being none at all. Give me one shred of proof that is not man made and I don't mean I woke up this morning.

Whiz

Ok time for me to finish where do we start Ok I guess that bballd said it best God and Spirtuality are out of the realm of science they are above it, So therefore if you think that a Grand Power put us here to just live our lives, then why hide it's own existence. Why have no proof what so ever that you actually exist.

Now since you guys are going to start paraphrazing religious Doctrine I have them all and please no one start again with Christianity I have 12 years under a Preacher. Trust me I know the Bible. So since I have a bit of time let's see.

Here as a note I am going to be an *******
Disclaimer if you think you might take offense stop reading.

If God created Heaven and Earth in isx days and rested on the seventh how would anyone of known there was no one yet, Second How could you tell there was on such thing as time yet.

Last But not least guess what

Another Disclaimer (you might want to stop reading here)!!!








If God is so powerful why did it take Him 6 days?

Help me out here I am not the one to Bash anyone's religion but come on.

If I affended anyone I am really sorry.

Quote:

---

Hey Rad. You believe in God, Are you a sceintist? The reason that I ask these questions a sheerly because, Sceince is based off of fact proof things that have a general answer or theory. So along those lines you can not believe God exist if you are a Serious Scence buff.

---

Along these lines you also cannot believe in Evolution if you are a "serious science buff". You just stated what I've been saying: if it aint fact it aint science.

Quote:

---

Think about there is no actual proof that there is a higher being none at all. Give me one shred of proof that is not man made and I don't mean I woke up this morning.

---

It's coming...along with a whole discussion about evolution vs Creation (that probably won't be posted in this thread, but in the Michigan Education thread right next to it) but as you can imagine, it's a bit like writing a term paper because there is so much information. Both sides have hundreds of theories. If you'd like you can check out one of the sources I'm considering, go to http://www.religioustolerance.org/evolutio.htm and click on any links that you find interesting, but before you respond to anything you find, wait for me to post it all together then write one big response to all of it (instead of attacking something that hasn't been written here yet). You should definately check out the "indicators of intelligent design" link.

Quote:

---

Why have no proof what so ever that you actually exist.

---

Such incredible genius.....lmao, you assume that there is no evidence just because of your own ignorance.

Quote:

---

why hide it's own existence.

---

You'd have to be familiar with Christian doctrine to answer that (the answer might also be in other religions). Something about God wants us to have faith and if He were to prove that he exists, it would be a no-brainer and we wouldn't be coming to him "voluntarily" or something...I don't understand it either.

Quote:

---

If God created Heaven and Earth in isx days and rested on the seventh how would anyone of known there was no one yet, Second How could you tell there was on such thing as time yet.

---

According to Scripture, God told the person who was writing about it. And Adam was there on the sixth day. God made references to time like "after one day..." but there's a whole 'nother discussion on how long a "day" was.

Quote:

---

If God is so powerful why did it take Him 6 days?

---

He split up his work and then took a day to rest to set an example for us. It is to show us that we can't do everything all at once and we have a *need* to rest and he strongly recommends that we rest once every 7 days. (this was reinforced by the commandment "keep the Sabbath Holy"...the same commandment that is not reinforced in the New Testament...but it's still a good idea).

Quote:

---

If I affended anyone I am really sorry.

---

Heh, I doubt it but I don't think anyone should be offended for you challenging it...I mean if it's true then people should be able to defend it. (Most of the people I know could actually do a much better job of it than I am).

P.S. This whole evolution vs. Creation thing is like writing a term paper...there are tons of sources and I don't agree with half of them...and I have to condense it all down so I need some time.

*edit*
I like this quote:

Quote:

---

"The Intelligent design hypothesis has one major flaw: it requires one to believe that a competent, thinking, omnipotent, divine being created the platypus: a venomous, egg-laying, duck billed mammal." Anon.

---

:p I think God has a sense of humor....and Robin Williams believes that God was high when he made the platypus :D.

*re-edit*
I've decided that although a lot of people try, there is no way to conclusively prove that God exists and it's something you have to decide for yourself. But then, Whizkid, all you asked for was a shred of evidence, so I guess I can do that. I look at the little things, like how in a solar eclipse the moon is the exact size and is exactly far away enough from earth (and has the perfect orbit pattern) to exactly block out the sun leaving nothing but the corona to be seen....or how water is the only chemical that when frozen weighs less than when solid, allowing ice to float on top of a body of water so that the animals can safely live underneath the top layer of ice in the winter. Or how incredibly complex the human body is with several complex systems functioning together allowing us to live the way we do. It's a personal thing, and I've decided that I'm not an accident of nature...I'm way too complex for that and the world is just put together too well for it to be an accident. But as I've already said, I don't think one can *prove* that God exists, it's just something you've got to decide for yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by keezel

I know that all three religions teach that a person should be accepted/loved no matter what he/she does or believes, however they also teach that we are *not* to accept their teachings or accept what they've *done*. (respect, not accept). Judiasim has been around since before documented history (except of course for the historical accounts in the Bible)...so how can you possibly say it came from something else? Hell, according to the Bible, Judaeism began in the beginning when Adam had to sacrifice an animal to cover his sins (after the...bad fruit episode of course). The Koran would acknowledge that Moses, Jesus, and Mohamid are the three great prophets bc they believe that Islam is just the new version of Christianity....kinda. Islam, however, is totally different from Christianity because they do not believe that Jesus is God (part of the Trinity, but still completely God as he was at the same time completely man...cool theory and reasoning behind this one, you should check this one out too). Christianity is *based* on the belief that Jesus is God (not just a prophet) and that the only path to heaven is through him bc God cannot interact directly with a world full of sin....or a person full of sin.

---

I guess we will start here...jsut because the church tried to distroy records from before judism dosn't meen there wasnt civilizations/writen history before them (the chinese go back much futher). Nothing was writen down for the bible before abramham, before that you had an oral tradition told by members of a tribe, Abraham who codified and modefied every thing came after zoraster. The *first * monothiestic religion in the world was zorastorism (if you deleve deep enough into early jewish history and text you relise that they where polytheisitc origonaly). the jews had a major religious upheval during the roman times, at this point the schisemed into to groups the rabbidic jews and christians, a bit later (ok a long time later), a haritical off shoot of judism(they beleived that ishmahal was the chosen son of adraham and not issac)got their own profit and started calling themselfs muslim. So there you have the basic history of the judo/christian/muslim faith.....Never assume you deal with someone who knows nothing about history, I have probably stuied the history and background of this major religion much more indepth then you.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by keezel

I guess from the start I should say I prefer the NIV, although I read other versions on occasion...so nobody attack me or the version, k? I've seen things that seemed to be contradictory...until you look at the original Greek text that the two passages from different versions came from and from that you can clear up every single apparent contradiction. I have not yet taken Greek at school, so don't ask me to translate a verse into the language for you. "a lot of them contradict each other" is not true, there are very few times when they seem to contradict each other, and when you look at the original Greek text, it becomes obvious why they contradict each other. King James translated it the way *he* wanted it to sound several times (which is very unfortunate). I do not include the works of the apostals that have been removed, meaning I don't think they were directly from God, but that doesn't mean they are great books to be read. Besides, why do you care if the Bible is infallable or not? Has anyone used a verse yet claiming that "it's right bc the Bible says so"?

---

Most of the origional new testament wasn't writen in greek. most was writen in armenathic (closly related to modern arabic). Other parts (Paul who was oriongaly Saul) where writen in Latin. The King James version (and the later NIV which was based off of it) clamed to be translated from greek for two reasons. One to piss off the Catholics of the time (this was post schizm so the holy romans and the greek orthodox realy didn't like each other) . Two most scholars didn't know anchiant greek so they could make the bible say whatever they wanted.

Note the king james bible wans't writen by him but at him. He was rather homosexual, and at the time the chatholics of england where courting him wiht alterboys, the protistants wrote a bible that had homosexuality as a sin to try and turn him away from the catholics/the populace agenst him.

Needless to say Greek wasn't the original, and even in the original some of the acts do contradic (the gospal according to thomas is a great example of this, it talks about Jesues siblings..as such was never included by any bible makers...interestingly may be the only gosple writen by the guy it is named for.)

Quote:

---

Hey Rad. You believe in God, Are you a sceintist? The reason that I ask these questions a sheerly because, Sceince is based off of fact proof things that have a general answer or theory. So along those lines you can not believe God exist if you are a Serious Scence buff.

---

Heh, nope I'm really not a serious science buff. However, I love science, I love to extend my limits, push the envlope and all. However, science is as you said based upon fact. Now as far as your hardcore, hands-down, no if ands or buts about it proof that there is a higher being I really have no clue... I mean there are some things that are highly controversial like...

-Shroud of Turin (SP?)...
- Supposed remains of Noah's Ark found...
- Jesus's tomb being discovered...

After all that I think that it all comes down to one thing... faith.

Reason is a wonderful thing but when it straps someone down in chains it is the worst thing imaginable. Not all things can be proven my friend.

- Miracles
- Near Death Experiances (which are very interseting by the way)
- so much more...

I believe as time progresses the mass concept of reason will broaden. I think that one who is consumed by reason will never reach the full beauties that life has to offer. I've brodened my horizons to accept something that some think is beyond reason and is beyond comprehension, something that I believe is right and true. I believe in God.

You can't prove to me that God does not exist. Not because I'm a brain-washed psycho religious man who refuses to accept any concept of logic because he has been brought up like this all his life and refuses to change... but because, I know he's there. I can feel him in my heart and I can feel his presense in my life. I can't explain it to you, that would be to easy I guess, you'll have to experiance it for yourself.

As for all your answers to your questions, you won't find them untill you open up.

Psalm 27
"My heart says of you, "Seek His face!"
Your face, Lord, I will seek."

Now I must go off and joyride in my Mom's 2002 camery heh heh that she so nicely said I could drive in.... Take care.

-- Peace :cool:

Yes Keezel this is correct that God wanted to, make an example for us.

You know what neither of will budge on our opinions, So I say we agree to Disagree J.

But in a last attempt to make my point there is a Movie that I want you guys to look for, I can’t remember the name but; This is the underlining principle “Jesus’s Body is found in a Tomb” Actually I think that is the name of the movie The Tomb. But none the less if you take away the Resurrection of Christ, what does Christianity, any of the religions where Jesus is involved. Become!

You know what there is a joke that is said by Chris Rock “I doubt that maters what I do, I am going to Hell anyway” Better Version Tupac’s “We are already in Hell, All those people trying to get to heaven aren’t going.” So I will say that you know what in the end it doesn’t matter; What I think, what you think, what anyone think. People are going to have to decide for themselves what it truly is. How do you think that it would change the world if there was no need to believe.

Faith is what all religions are based on, you are expected to believe in something just because you have heard or think that it should be that way. I am not calling anyone in here this, but that is Naïve. To believe in something sheerly because it is said, told to you is Naïve. If I told you that I if you believed enough you could Jump off a building and fly. Would you trust me? It is simply a matter of FAITH either you believe or you don’t there is nothing that can change that.

To believe that you are going to do whatever is not enough to do anything, you have to have some backing of that. There was a good Highlander episode that kind of falls Similar to this discussion, There was a Swordsman that would find Immortals and kill them and get them to believe that he was bringing them back to life. Well skip ahead about 50 mins and you have a. Duncan saying “How do we really know that there is a God, All we have are the facts of religious doctrine, Reply: Faith you have got to have faith.”

Now just as a Note no one has seen the real Old Testament version of the bible that was is Aramaic because why? The Catholic church has it and says that it is to precious to be touched. Anyone that speaks another language can vouch for this, When you transalate something it never comes over the way you it was because some languages just don’t have words that another language has.

I have been typing long enough, I am tired and I think that personally that this topic is just to heated to keep talking about, someone is bound to become mad about something said so in the spirit of fair, and just practices I am going to start a room, Just for this topic. Hopefully this room can at least weed out the people that will get offended