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ahh... and again, that's all because of the moral's of the church, and what they stand for. I'm atheist, and I do community service work all the time. Just because a religion does things to help feed other nations, doesn't necessarily mean there is a god. Btw, I don't in any way mean to put down anybody who does believe in god, I fully respect everybody's beliefs and opinions.
I don't have faith in a world beyond the one I live in now.. but it doesn't stop me from helping people... and don't you find it sad that people (who claim to believe in god and good will) actually need a reason to be kind and helpful to others? What happened to being nice for the sake of it.. ?Quote:
Without religion there would be a lot of people who would no longer fee motivated to help people. With all of the different religions in this world, about 95% of them believe in helping other people. Think of the hurricanes that hit honduras, then a bunch of missionaries, and other people went down there to help them rebuild there homes, and establish shelters. Therefore, I believe that the world is better with religions.
"Religion is used to keep the masses quiet." - Don't know who said it (guessing Voltaire?) but it pretty much summarizes my belief in religion and faith...
jag291
Karl Marx: "Religion is the opium of the masses".Quote:
"Religion is used to keep the masses quiet." - Don't know who said it (guessing Voltaire?)
Voltaire said something among those lines, though ("God is a comedian playing for an audience that is too afraid to laugh"?).
I fear this could seriously piss someone off....but I couldn't resist :p . (btw, this does *not* mean I don't like to argue...but I *had* to post this).
Has religion created all of the worlds problems.. no... It is not the cause of war or hatred, nor even a major contributor. Have the major organized religions made the world a better place? yes and no, by the same argument that can be used about the violence one can say that the people that have done a lot of good in the world would have done so with or with out religion.
I am going to let you in on a very big secret. This would have gotten my killed by various secrete societies in years past, and it is the crux of Gnostic, hassisian, illuminate, erisian, probably mason, satanist, KoC, teachings. This is the big truth that illuminated Buda’s and lamas through out history.
Man has a capacity for good or evil so great that it needs no supernatural explanation. Religion can be a tool that can be used for good or ill.
That is very frightening to many people, to relies that they helped or hurt someone else because they wanted to and not because some greater power made/tempted them to. Framework why did you help out the poor? not because the spirit of god filled you but because it made you feel good to help them. Why did Hitler and mason kill, not because Satan made them but because they wanted to and it made them feel good. That is a realization that scares people to the point that they refuse to believe it.
Why did the crusades happen? Do not blame religions, look to the men who used religion to make there grab for land and power. If the framework of organized religion wasn't there they would have used something else.
Keelez: if you don't like disscuessing contrivesial topics, or long discuessions, may I sugest that you stay out of Cosmos whos whole point of existanse is to argue points on the net.
My dear moron:Quote:
Keelez: if you don't like disscuessing contrivesial topics, or long discuessions, may I sugest that you stay out of Cosmos whos whole point of existanse is to argue points on the net.
I said in my post that my posting of that picture doesn't mean that "I don't like to argue", and I do enjoy discussing controversial topics and having long discussions. Please note that my post was never edited, therefore I did not add that after I read your post meaning that you just plain ignored it and decided to attack it anyway. Read the frikin post first! /rantQuote:
btw, this does *not* mean I don't like to argue...but I *had* to post this
*edit* Dammit! I wasted my 200th post on this?! I diddn't think that posting in cosmos counted! Crap!....ok I'm better now.
bballad...
hope you meant that about arguing points :D
I would argue the inclusion of several of those groups in there....Quote:
I am going to let you in on a very big secret. This would have gotten my killed by various secrete societies in years past, and it is the crux of Gnostic, hassisian, illuminate, erisian, probably mason, satanist, KoC, teachings. This is the big truth that illuminated Buda’s and lamas through out history.
the crux of gnostic philopsophy is as follows;
1. Self knowledge is knowledge of God, the self and the divine are indentical
2. Jesus came as a guide to open access to spiritual understanding rather than to save us from sin. When enlightenment is attained you become equal to Jesus in a spiritual sense
3. The physical world was created imperfect either by a moronic 'god' or evil 'god'. The true god is so outside of our comprehension that we will never know anything of him until we become enlightened. However this is not a gift, it is something we must work for.
In many respects Gnosticism is very similar to Buddhism and you can probably see why it was described as heresy by what we know as the Church. There are of course different interpretations of some of the gnostic texts much as there are differences of opinion concerning the New and Old testament
The crux of Masonic philosophy is that all men are brothers under God and that we should all look after each other. Essentially it's the biggest 'Frat' house on the face of the planet.... apologies to any Masons for being so flippant... :)
The crux of Illuminiati philosophy is very much unknown... the Bavarian order of the Illuminati is not widely documented - despite the book by Robert Wilson (which I should point out is a work of fiction... a good book, but still fiction)
Erisian philosophy.... well I hate to even put the two words together... the modern Erisian 'cult' stems from the Illuminatus book by Robert Wilson mentioned above - it's called Discordianism in there... Discordia being the latin form of Eris - the genealogy of Eris is confused but one variant indicates she is the daughter of Nyx (primal Goddess of the Night) and Erebus (primal God of Darkness) both of whom are offspring of Chaos. Discordianism is very much formed by the Illuminatus trilogy and whilst it might be interesting from a psychological point of view is inherently vapid. To quote from the Eris Discordia web site "Discordianism is either a religion disguised as a joke or a joke disguised as a religion". The original cult of Eris... is well... it's unsure if there even was one. The Greeks viewed Gods like Eris or Erebus very much as natural forces to be respected rather than as beings to be worshipped.
As for Hassassin philosophy (I am assuming you mean the forerunners of assassins!)... given that the 'Old Man of the Mountain' drugged followers to the eyeballs with hash and opium and then ordered the followers to kill people (usually Christian crusaders) I doubt their philosphy was anywhere near similar to your 'secret'. I'm probably going to regret saying this but the sect was an offshoot branch of Shia Islam i.e. they were muslims, it is more likely that they were fighting a guerilla war against the incursions of the Christian crusaders into their homelands at the time.
Probably the only thing you were right on in your post is that Satanists believe that
Although I daresay some of the Satanists round here may argue that one with me :)Quote:
Man has a capacity for good or evil so great that it needs no supernatural explanation. Religion can be a tool that can be used for good or ill.
Anyway..... sorry for the length of the post but I had to put in my 2penneth worth
Z
Ps can't comment on KoC... don't know anything about them.... are you refering to the Keepers of Chaos???
Well sure, it does make most people feel good to help someone in need, but to say it was'nt because of the spirit is not true in my case. Obvioulsy we won't get anywhere arguing this point, but where i have given something, the Spirit definately motivated me to do it, and i'm thankful He did. I'm not even really supposed to go around saying i did this or i did that for someone, but i'm sure we have all helped someone out from time to time. I was more making a point than trying to say that i have done a bunch of good things.Quote:
Framework why did you help out the poor? not because the spirit of god filled you but because it made you feel good to help them.
I of all people am noone to start preaching, God knows i'm probably one of the worst sinners/lawbreakers to have ever walked the earth. However, i have asked for forgiveness and i believe i have recieved it.
____
Just to kinda add on to what allen posted in his first thread, i sure was calling out for a God to save me when i was drugged and suffering from a heartbeat going so fast it could make a wheel spin. I spent three weeks in the hospital recovering from an overdose, i think someone slipped me GHB or some sort of amphetamine, not completely sure since i was'nt admitted to a hospital for three days after the incident. I spent those first three days wondering around town punching road signs and chasing after things that did'nt even exist. I believe God saved my life, and it's a miracle that i still have my mental faculties after the whole ordeal was finished.
Oh brother, well I dunno about you guys but I'm tired of debating my religious ideals and values. It now seems like we're all in this to defend what we think is right when we're really just trying to share our thoughts in the first place. Granted the fact that this is a security site and all, and even though I realize this is cosmos, all this is doing is dividing people over a religious issue...
-- Hi, my handles THE RADICAL and I believe in god.
-- Hi, THE RADICAL, my handle is 'blahblah', and I'm an athiest.
-- Interesting, what paths have you taken down in your life that have lead you to believe so?
** That's the kind of conversation I'm talking about **
Yes, I'll be the first to admit I'm just as guilty as the next guy, but come on this ridiculous, argueing over who's philosophy is the best? Do you really think that one sides going to come out over the other?
Quick tip: There won't.
So lets restructure this thread before it goes sour with all this 'proof' and 'beliefs' that are just making us divided. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want, and I'll respect your decision either way because I know there's more than just a person behind that keyboard.
Well, I'm out, hope I worded that well...
--PEACE :cool:
A few retourts to your points. The erisans where around long before illuminatius came out (princaplaya discordia predated it by a number of years). Illuminatius trilogy (and a later fallow up every thign is under control) are probably part of "operation ****up". As for the masons, which rite as there are a number. It seems from what I have read that the oriental rite belives the statement I made. Oh and the hassiassins where not just a gerilla force, as they had agents in most of the major eropean reulers courts of the day.
Quote:
Originally posted here by Zonewalker
bballad...
hope you meant that about arguing points :D
I would argue the inclusion of several of those groups in there....
the crux of gnostic philopsophy is as follows;
1. Self knowledge is knowledge of God, the self and the divine are indentical
2. Jesus came as a guide to open access to spiritual understanding rather than to save us from sin. When enlightenment is attained you become equal to Jesus in a spiritual sense
3. The physical world was created imperfect either by a moronic 'god' or evil 'god'. The true god is so outside of our comprehension that we will never know anything of him until we become enlightened. However this is not a gift, it is something we must work for.
In many respects Gnosticism is very similar to Buddhism and you can probably see why it was described as heresy by what we know as the Church. There are of course different interpretations of some of the gnostic texts much as there are differences of opinion concerning the New and Old testament
The crux of Masonic philosophy is that all men are brothers under God and that we should all look after each other. Essentially it's the biggest 'Frat' house on the face of the planet.... apologies to any Masons for being so flippant... :)
The crux of Illuminiati philosophy is very much unknown... the Bavarian order of the Illuminati is not widely documented - despite the book by Robert Wilson (which I should point out is a work of fiction... a good book, but still fiction)
Erisian philosophy.... well I hate to even put the two words together... the modern Erisian 'cult' stems from the Illuminatus book by Robert Wilson mentioned above - it's called Discordianism in there... Discordia being the latin form of Eris - the genealogy of Eris is confused but one variant indicates she is the daughter of Nyx (primal Goddess of the Night) and Erebus (primal God of Darkness) both of whom are offspring of Chaos. Discordianism is very much formed by the Illuminatus trilogy and whilst it might be interesting from a psychological point of view is inherently vapid. To quote from the Eris Discordia web site "Discordianism is either a religion disguised as a joke or a joke disguised as a religion". The original cult of Eris... is well... it's unsure if there even was one. The Greeks viewed Gods like Eris or Erebus very much as natural forces to be respected rather than as beings to be worshipped.
As for Hassassin philosophy (I am assuming you mean the forerunners of assassins!)... given that the 'Old Man of the Mountain' drugged followers to the eyeballs with hash and opium and then ordered the followers to kill people (usually Christian crusaders) I doubt their philosphy was anywhere near similar to your 'secret'. I'm probably going to regret saying this but the sect was an offshoot branch of Shia Islam i.e. they were muslims, it is more likely that they were fighting a guerilla war against the incursions of the Christian crusaders into their homelands at the time.
Probably the only thing you were right on in your post is that Satanists believe that
Although I daresay some of the Satanists round here may argue that one with me :)
Anyway..... sorry for the length of the post but I had to put in my 2penneth worth
Z
Ps can't comment on KoC... don't know anything about them.... are you refering to the Keepers of Chaos???