A heated Debate: Time Travel

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I think it would be impossible to keep a vehicle or event that would disrupt time, secret. It would be extremely noticeable; it would basically "**** **** up"

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I think you're assuming quite a lot here - how do you actually know what the effects of time distortion look like... maybe effects are extremely subtle, maybe they only last for a billionth of a nanosecond. I'm not saying that such things have happend but I am asking you to keep an open mind, none of us can say what effects time travel might show unless
a) we are from the future and know intimately the physics involved
b) we already have a better idea of time travel than people like einstein and hawking (and even then there are those physicists that disagree with either or both of these two in certain areas)

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The fact that there is no evidence of time travel from the future is very strong evidence that it does not exist.

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no it's not... it's merely a fact that there is no evidence, no evidence is not proof positive that time travel cannot and does not exist

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They still have to travel the same space and would be detected

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again your thinking is extremely flawed here... you're thinking too much in relativistic terms, if you are time travelling you are effectively stepping outside of the time dimension.... since time and space are linked ... effectively you can be anywhere and everywhere at the same 'time' - why - because there is no time for anything to have happened you can literally travel a million lightyears in no time at all

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You could also point out that they haven't traveled past us yet

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Really.... and on what evidence do you base that conclusion then?

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They still have to travel the same space and would be detected

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not necessarily - admittedly if your travelling outside of time there is the possibility that gravitational waves could be detected... always assuming we are looking for AND can detect relatively small disturbances in gravitational fields outside. And they only have to travel through space if coming to us from another planet if you think about it... someone travelling 100years backwards through time in Alabama will still be in alabama when they stop travelling in time. To illustrate what I mean if you travel in a straight line for 10 meters - do you affect someone who is standing 6 meteres away at a 90 degree angle to you.... only by disturbing the air flow around them and a few other subtle changes but otherwise no you don't - do you see my point?

Incidentally the thing about accelerating to near light speed is only one theoretical way to time travel, it's not the only way. Whilst I feel that gravitation is important in this area like I said, I am sure there are some other factors which haven't been taken into account in this discussion (I'm thinking here of strong and weak nuclear forces). From what I understand of other theories you don't have to violate the laws of relativity to 'break' the time barrier.

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Anyway, like I said, the christians call it "god", buddhists call it "nirvana", and taoists call it the "tao".

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no offence but can we leave religion out of this?

Z

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no offence but can we leave religion out of this

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err, I was being subjective, but whatever... :rolleyes:

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no offence but can we leave religion out of this?

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I thought time travel was a religion.
:cool:

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err, I was being subjective, but whatever...

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umm... ok, sorry I prolly sounded a bit off there didn't I...

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I thought time travel was a religion.

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what... me - ranting,.... you saying I sound religious about this :fart: - yeah reading it again I prolly do don't I

RoadClosed.... whilst I stand by everything I said above... if it sounds pissy and/or like I have a thing about this ... well I'm just expressing happiness at having a chat about something I haven't talked about to anyone for a while (most people seem to shy away from this subject wif me for some reason)

Z

YEP Zone...

I agree with your thinking. I put forth questions and active thinking and not a descriptive failsafe argument. But along that line of my thinking about detecting rips in our universe and gravitational distortions: I just can't see something of that speed and magnitude not have a large effect on the local environment. It has to displace something. But then again I am not a cosmologist and have only a bitter basic understanding of mathematics. I can set here all day and dream up theories about dropping out of the physical universe and popping back in to be at another spot in space time. But I question, is that really time travel? Yes those are relativistic terms. I don't think we could comprehend non-relativistic terms even if we understood them. I have a problem with distance as measured in physical space vs. time. And if you think in non-linear terms, then time travel is a mute point because everything is always the same.

The main problem with any theory with time travel is, how do you measure time. Does it even exist, or is it something that we use as a realative measurement to the present. our ability to remember is the only reason time as we know it exists. theres somethni t chew on.

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Thats infiniti, it's not really a concept we as humans can get. Simply put, it is nothing, but at the same time we see that as "something". See how it cancels itself out? No end, no beginning, like a circle

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Compare the infinity (if it is infinit) of space to the problem a "lower-dimension-than-us lifeform" (wich can't exist) has compared to us. A 1D person wouldn't understand there is "an end" at a circle, a 2D person would also be able to walk up and down but would be in an infinite loop in the side of a cilinder for example.

Striek, You make a good point about how all possible histories have already been played out, and are travelling along with each other. (Hawkings sum over histories) In one history, I did not reply to this post, and life went on. In another history, I did in fact reply to this post, and that is the history I have just switched everyone into. So perhaps time travel as we think it is, is simply passing between 2 different histories? Well, no, because then the history would be completly different than the one that we were originally one.

Perhaps if all the different histories were already played out, how would we know which history to move forward in? Like, if I moved forward in history before I had replyed to this thread, I would have two possible histories to move forward into. The one future would be where I had replied to this thread, and the other history is where I hadn't replied to this thread. So does that mean that if I had gone forward into the history where I didn't reply to this thread, and after I'm forward, I did in fact reply, would I be stuck in the false future where I didn't reply? (got that? good). So as you can see this causes a dilema for those who believe that time travel is possible.

In fact, it would almost be impossible to travel forward in time, simply because we would not know which history to move forward into. Another problem is, how would we even switch between histories? Would it be like switching between dimensions? Well not so much dimensions, but histories. Could I visit a history where perhaps I had not replied to this thread? Because there is a history happening right now, along side this one, where I did not hit the submit button.



*phew* How does it make you all feel that I have just changed the cosmoses entire history by hitting the submit button?


:p

You folks should read the book "Flatland". How can an individual living in a lower dimension imagine conditions in a higher dimension?

Sounds like a parody of "plato's cave"

It's fairly obvious from this thread how many AO members have done LSD. :eek:

hahahahahaha!