Records Counter a Critic of Kerry

moxnix: I really do understand what you guys wen't through, I saw what that war did to many beloved family and friends. I used to listen to tape recordings that were sent to my sister by her husband, I still to this day can remember my sister crying while she listened. Her husband was a Marine Sergant in some kind of recon roll. He told me that he would follow around the VC in a smal 6 man group and sneak into their camps at night to slit a few throats, then sneak back out and wait for the excitement that insued after the dead VC were discovered by their comrads. This was just one of many stories I was told through the few years that he remained sane. He is now a very lonley person dieing of some sort of cancer brought on by Agent Orange exposure. I am also proud of the soldiers who fought there and I think that they all deseve much more respect than they recieved. Thank you for your comment in my reguards. It allowed me to clarify my posisition a small bit. I am not saying that Kerry was right or moral about what he accused the Swift Boat guys of, I do believe he thought it was the right thing to do at the time and that this was most likely his way of releasing some of his own guilt at the time. It was a long time ago, and I think that actions speak louder than words. Kerry by no means has a clean slate, but people do change, and I have to wiegh the two candidates pros and cons. I am still undecided who will get my vote. This thread is just another way to hear other opinions and views. I will also look at the links everyone has submitted and make some more comments, who knows maybe one of you might change my mind. ;)

RoadClosed: My Father died several years ago, he was 79, so he lived a good and productive life, my Mother and him were married for over 50 years and he was a good man. Thank you for mentioning him... <sniff> As for the Florida scandal... I have to give you the benifit of the facts you have stated. I will withdraw my accusations of a rigged election, I do also think that bush has made a better President than Gore would have. Not that I am a supporter of Bush, no, no, no, I am not a supporter of Kerry either. I am still studying the two candidates, I will say that I am leaning towards Kerry. I have to agree with nebulus200, I am in wait and see mode.

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I will say that I am leaning towards Kerry. I have to agree with nebulus200, I am in wait and see mode.

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I am leaning towards Bush at the moment, but I blame the Democrats for that. I am a fiscal and social conservative, but I also trend mainly towards libertarian (if they dropped the drug part of their platform I would be there, but that is a different debate) with a strong belief in freedom of speech and fighting to keep the rights garunteed by the Bill of Rights.

I have been greatly angered with many of the things Bush has done (#1 being reckless spending, which can be blamed on Congress; however, I also blame Bush because he has yet to use a single veto and only offers plans of cutting the defecit in half sometime after he leaves office :rolleyes: ). I have also been severely disappointed by the general secrecy of his administration, the general trend towards the curtailing of rights, the general trend towards invasion of privacy and expansion of government power, an arrogant trend (not only to other countries but to US citizens in general), and a rush to use military force where it may or may not be applicable (I don't disagree with Bush going into Iraq BTW, but I absolutely blame him for being totally unprepared for the aftermath and the subsequent overextension of US forces). As a side note, I do not blame Bush for the economy, circumstances were largely out of his control (the recession started before he took office, 9/11, terrorist attacks, corporate scandals (from before he took office), and sky high oil prices have all taken a terrible toll). I had planned to either not vote at all in the next election (and still may not, after all, tweedle dumb or tweedle dumber isn't much of a choice) or to vote for someone other than Bush.

During the primaries, there were actually several candidates for the Democratic nomination for which I would have voted; however, the Democratic party let their vitrolic hatred of Bush jade their outlook and their selection of candidates. IMHO, they let their intense hatred of Bush drive their selection of an anti-Bush and that has led to an ultra-liberal ticket (#1 and #4 in senate votes) that I cannot in good conscience consider as viable alternatives. It is really quite sad, I dislike Bush and many of the things he has done; however, I feel the Democrats left me no choice but to vote for Bush (staying home is voting for Kerry).

I still don't know, I may wind up staying home, but I sure as hell ain't voting for Kerry.

Blast me all you want, I know this board trends liberal, but for someone stuck around the center, I find both choices unappealing.

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Blast me all you want, I know this board trends liberal, but for someone stuck around the center, I find both choices unappealing.

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You make another good point, I will vote for someone. But, for who???

I won't blast ya :3pow: although some might, I always get a blast or two from someone in a political discussion. Let me tell you a little secret.... I just love to be blasted by these people, it gives me some amusement and something to do when I am bored. I feel like I have done something when I get answers back with bold typefaces :D No offense to !mitationRust, I never even flinched. :cool:

:shootem: :D There are democrats I would vote for as well. None of them made it even as far as Edwards and others before Kerry came out ahead. I can see your point the point of view about freedoms being taken away. I criticise bush on other matters though. That is definitely your libertarian point of view. :) On my radical side I am a Federalist.

Did just see something rather interesting on MSNBC as I was flipping channels (Scarborough country, not something I usually watch, but...). Anyway, he was running through details and mentioned that the person that wrote the after action report for the swift boat guy was not in fact John Kerry (he mentioned the name, sorry don't remember).

He then had a guest on his show that did serve on Kerry's swift boat who flat contradicted Kerry's story about the swift boat in Cambodia. Of course, the guest from Kerry's camp flat contradicted the guest. The one thing I found interesting is that they both pointed to after action reports, one claming they exist and one claiming they don't because it never happened. Hopefully someone will be pulling through those reports and find out one way or the other, it is quite apparent from watching that interview that both are willing to directly contradict the other, which makes it damn near impossible, at least for me, to tell who was wrong (though the vet staying come and the Kerry guy being hysterical didn't help Kerry IMHO).

Anyway, Kerry filed a formal FEC complaint regarding the swift boat add. Am going to keep an eye on MSNBC website for a while to see if they publish the transcript.

POW’s went through even more torture because of Kerry they were presented with his accusations and when they denied the Kerry reports they were beat, starved, pissed on, shitted on, electrocuted, burned, choked, cut, whipped, ect… Kerry you think you can dick soldiers up the ass like that and run for Commander and Chief?

If Kerry had more or less kept his mouth shut about Vietnam then none of this would be an issue. He made it the centerpiece of his entire presidential campaign.

If your actions are used by a brutal Communist dictatorship, you are not fit to be president based on that record. He’s an alleged “war hero” who turned around and sold out his country to the enemy. And how he wants to be president in a time of war. What other enemies will this self-described “internationalist” sell us out to in the future?

As far as I’m concerned with the swifts boat Vets for truth, “Mission accomplished” you have single handily crippled Kerry’s Vet vote! So much that Kerry is trying to troll the president into the argument.

From what I understand…
The person who signed the Larry Raymond Thurlow citation was Ed. R. Zumwalt. This citation was drafted from the AAR written by Kerry, taken at “face value” which was done rightly so, because officers are not to lie while writing AAR’s.

Hrrrm….They seemed to have left that little fact out at factcheck.org! :thumbsup:

Now get this.

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Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has requested that the Federal Election Commission force Republican groups to withdraw ads attacking his military service record.

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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...3_24?hub=World

I guess Kerry can "dish it out, but he can't take it". I don't recall Bush trying to
get Michael Moore's movie outlawed, even though it dealt some harsh blows
to his campaign.

One useful side effect of all the negative campaigning is that it reveals how
a person will react to unfair criticism. Kerry needs to suck it up and stop
whining about it.

Every president since Geo. Wash. has had to deal with criticism and name calling.
Does he think, if he gets elected, his enemies will go home and stop annoying
him. Get over it.
:cool:

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If Kerry had more or less kept his mouth shut about Vietnam then none of this would be an issue. He made it the centerpiece of his entire presidential campaign.

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He couldn't have. He wouldn't be where he is now without it. He has used it throughout his 30 years in politics.

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I don't recall Bush trying to
get Michael Moore's movie outlawed, even though it dealt some harsh blows
to his campaign.

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I'm pretty sure the Reps tried to silence him. It doesn't usually work.

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Kerry needs to suck it up and stop
whining about it.

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Kerry needs to come out and tell the truth of what happened. He also needs to read the book before he calls it lies. Also he needs to get his dimwitted campaign officers to stop threatening/requesting book stores to stop selling "Unfit for Command". I went and purchased the book. Dalton Books fortunately was not affected by this and had plenty of copies out. I'm surprised though...they allow dozens of books that belittle GWB, but they do not want to accept this book? Typical. They want to silence everyone who has something to say, which does not go by their agenda. The veterans earned the right to be heard. So Kerry just needs to STFU and come out and debate them. O'Neill already beat Kerry in a debate he had in 1971 on the Dick Cavett Show. He proved to be a complete dickhead.

The democrats have made a really good choice with Kerry though. They secured Hillary Clinton a very good spot for presidency in 2008. You really think they give two shits about Kerry? Not at all...Kerry is not winning this election, fortunately for the Clintons.

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Originally posted here by rcgreen
Now get this.
I guess Kerry can "dish it out, but he can't take it". I don't recall Bush trying to
get Michael Moore's movie outlawed, even though it dealt some harsh blows
to his campaign.

One useful side effect of all the negative campaigning is that it reveals how
a person will react to unfair criticism. Kerry needs to suck it up and stop
whining about it.

Every president since Geo. Wash. has had to deal with criticism and name calling.
Does he think, if he gets elected, his enemies will go home and stop annoying
him. Get over it.
:cool:

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rcgreen, just pointed out one of the many Kerry flaws, he is over sensitive! You know if Mr. Sensitive Kerry was in charge when Khrushchev took off his shoe and went psycho saying, “We shall bury you”, I can almost guarantee we would be speaking Russian to day picking potatoes under slave labor making cheap vodka!

America needs a leader not some communist sell out, over sensitive, Tokyo Rose, Jane Fonda imitator who betrayed and smeared vets/POW's at the same time put a little more torture on their plate.

What kind of person would vote for him knowing that?

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Originally posted here by Cybr1d
Kerry needs to come out and tell the truth of what happened. He also needs to read the book before he calls it lies. Also he needs to get his dimwitted campaign officers to stop threatening/requesting book stores to stop selling "Unfit for Command". I went and purchased the book. Dalton Books fortunately was not affected by this and had plenty of copies out. I'm surprised though...they allow dozens of books that belittle GWB, but they do not want to accept this book? Typical. They want to silence everyone who has something to say, which does not go by their agenda. The veterans earned the right to be heard. So Kerry just needs to STFU and come out and debate them. O'Neill already beat Kerry in a debate he had in 1971 on the Dick Cavett Show. He proved to be a complete dickhead.

The democrats have made a really good choice with Kerry though. They secured Hillary Clinton a very good spot for presidency in 2008. You really think they give two shits about Kerry? Not at all...Kerry is not winning this election, fortunately for the Clintons.

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Thank you for saying that Cybr1d, Kerry just needs to answer the questions!
No, you mean the "Clinton Political Machine" secured Hillary Clinton a very good spot for presidency in 2008. That selfish Clinton blunder will result in another Republican victory. Not only that, but also yet another book for Hillary.

That party is falling apart. ;)

i have come to the conclusion that politics is the never ending battle of the quest for being right, and loved. And this election proves that neither of which can be achieved at the same time ;)