Where Do I Start (Different Newbie Question)

Lotta questions - Let's see if I can hit 'em one by one. Please understand that I'm not by any means omnipotent - there's a TON of techies here with much better skills than mine, but here goes.

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BlackIce, were you prior military?

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Yes. Ex-Navy. Check my profile. Eldest son in the corps in Iraq right now.

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It's like every where I go I keep thinking, wow, civilian life, everyone seems so laid back, on their own program, doing whatever they want to do, dressing how they want to dress, no rules and regulations, dragging their feet when they're walking, walking slouched over and mumbling when they talk.

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Absolutely! Transition out of the military just kinda sucks - you've been amped up for anything, plus under military discipline for the past 4 years at least. Enjoy watching the civvies run amok and keep those organizational skills. One thing I laugh at to this day is the haircuts - mine's still high and tight to this day, tighter in fact because my hairline's receding, and I laugh my ass off at the mullets running around. What *really* tweaked me though was a trip to Orlando before they closed the RTC there - went over to the old mall where the fresh-boot squiddies hang out and watched them all run around in their ice-cream whites all in step and stuff... 12 years after the service I still get a chuckle at the way things happen out in the civvie world.

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I can't get this or don't know how to get this quote thing to work

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Easy fix - I'll teach ya quicklike - type squarebracket quote squarebracket. Copy in whatever you're quoting. At the end, type squarebracket /quote squarebracket. (I'd show this but it'd just put what I'm typing out into a box.)

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Wow, you mean I can just go and do that?

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Hell yes! Moreso, you can do it with pride and brag since you fought for our freedoms. Enjoy the VA benefits - you'll never buy meds again. Toughest thing for me to do to this day is to stand up at a Veteran's day celebration. For some weird reason I just can't get it into my head that they're celebrating me riding a ship for 4 years, and occasionally shooting the odd towel-head.

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LOL, and when I see this, I mean I heard it before, but it is like everytime I see this, that is when I realize how really brainwashed I have become.

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Nah. Brainwashing is for those who don't have brains enough to resist it. You were socially modified for the tasks the Marines needed you for, and to be a clean cut socially acceptable human being. This puts you far above 90 percent of American civilians (they're all a grungy lot for the most part... remember 'maggots'? You were one once.). Hang onto that discipline, and retain your training as much as possible - it'll help you in the long run.

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I took the practice placement exam for the school

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One tip here - CLEP everything!!!! It's free or reduced cost to you since you're a vet - and it gets you out of the bullshit classes if you pass it. Think of it as a 'get out of english free' card... If you're unsure what a CLEP exam is, ask around at the registrar's office.

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I guess in a way it is the same concept in the sense that it has set patterns and rules, and if those rules are borken it would cause the computer to mess up, because the computer wouldn't be able to understand what it's being told to do, does that sound about right?

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Yes. A computer is an absolute moron. Think of it as a pfc - does exactly what you tell it to do, and nothing more. On learning the languages - it's not too difficult. I very strongly recommend taking a 'computer logic' or flowcharting course if your college offers one - once you learn how to flowchart, you can program in any language - it's all a matter of syntax, which you can look up in the manuals.

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But how would you actually apply straight math and algebraic equations to fix a problem?

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Simple to do, less simple to explain to one not familiar with programming, but here goes -

Let's say I want a program to repeat a step a certain number of times -
I use a counter statement - this means that I assign a variable a value, then have the computer add 1 (or whatever increment I want it to count at) until it gets to a higher value. You can have them count by 5's, 10's, even negatives if you so desire. Basic algebra but in a bastardized form known to programmers as X = X + 1... meaning, "Hey, idiot! Take the value of X, whatever it is, and add 1 to it!"

Another interesting aspect of working in simple programming is the ability to crunch numbers en masse, and extremely rapidly.. let's look at that counter, and add some changes to it -

I have this file. It contains a list of 100 numbers, one, two, and three digits long.
If the number is a single digit, I want to multiply it by 10
If it's a double digit, I want to divide it by 2.
If it's a triple digit, I want to subtract 50.

Ok, so first we look at the file and say "ok, we gotta look at 100 numbers" and we tell the computer that x = 0, and to do it's little x=x+1 until x = 100.

Then we assign 'if' statements - telling the computer to look at the number's length, not it's value, and put it into the correct 'slot'.

Then we do our math and have it output to file, screen, printer, whatever.

Again, simple math, plus a bit of algebra. You'll learn more on this in your programming course, I truly don't want this post to be 50 pages long. :cool:

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Or do they have software that will tell you what the equation should be, and you try it, and if it doesn't work go back and mess with it till it does work? And where in the computer would you acutally go to and type in this equation or formula to make it work right again? Does it actually look like an algebraic equation like ab(c3 X xy) +2= 14, and do you enter it in as such, or does it look something like those number and characters you get when you open a corrupted file or something?

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You have to know the math. Sorry, no shortcuts there - if you're crunching numbers, you'll need the equations. Most of them are simple enough though, and the ones you use for counting, etc, you get worked into your brain so well you never forget them. Yes, it looks like an algebraic equation if that's what you're after. Remember, you're God to the machine, so what you want done is what it will try to do... it just falls to you to tell the machine how to do it correctly.

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found no address specifically for the FBI whatsoever

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Try calling the FBI directly and asking for a recruiter - there's a local number in your phone book I'm sure.

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When you want something or need something from the gov., they'll take their sweet ass time, but if they want something or need something from you, man do they run.

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Yep, 'hurry up and wait.'

Hope that helped!

Okay, let me give this quote thing a try.

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Yes. Ex-Navy. Check my profile. Eldest son in the corps in Iraq right now.

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For some strange reason I miss ship life. Was that your ship in your profile that had that gun turret explode? I remember that. I used to work with Aeigis-class destroyers, calling in 5"/54's naval gunfire. I was fortunate enough to get do a call for fire with a 16" when I first joined. Volkswagon launchers we used to call them. You should see on the impact end those things exploding, and some pieces of the shrapnel were big as my torrso, from my waist to my head and razor sharp. But I believe the best birthday I'll ever have was when we were coming back from Afghanistan and we cut a square around the equator and the prime meridian, something that THEY said that no ship has done for 12 years at that point and they announced over the 1MC are coordinates as we passed each line. So not only did it just happen to happen on my birthday, I got to have my birthday two days in a row on the same day cause we were heading back to San Diego crossing the international date line AND they had a steel beach party that day AND I got to become a golden shell back, too. I was already a shell back for some time then, I miss wog day, initiating them dirty, nasty slimey wogs, lol. But I bet it has changed a lot since you been in though, now they got woman running all over the ships and everyone with a johnson trying to hit it no matter how ugly they are. They had some saying I can't quite remember, something about no matter how ugly they are, once they get out on ship them being princess' or something, but, it's true, lol. They had this one chick this one time on float, they called her the chow cow cause she monitorred the mess lines, and she was the size of an offensive lineman, about 6'5" at least 250lbs, they no sh had to have the covers to the ladder wells opened on one side of the ship cause she couldn't fit through the holes everyone else used. And they no sh had this $2000 pot for anyone who slept with her, but to prove they did, they had to get her panties and they had to have her name stamped in them. But no one ever won the pot, lol, thank God.

But where is your son at in Iraq? How long has he been there for? What unit is he with? I went in when the whole thing kicked off in March of last year with 3rd Light Armored Reconaisance Batallion. We moved so much and so fast I don't even know where I was besides Baghdad when we took and secured a bridge over the Tigris. Other than that, I couldn't tell ya. We were either in front of the division or in front of the whole coalition forces at any given time. Yeah, I know what you're saying about the veteran's day parades and stuff. When I go to a bar or something, people are always telling me thank you, and I feel embarrassed, cause I either tell them or am thinking, Man, don't thank me, I was more than happy to go blast those rag heads after what they did to our country.

But anyway, God bless your son and tell him I said Semper Fi.

I got a reply from the NSA yesterday, miracle, only one day, but still haven't heard from the rest of the spooks. But the NSA only said that they would recommend I check out their website for jobs, requirements, and the educational opportunities. Well, no sh, how do you think I got your email address and why do you think I am still writing you? Then they said they would recommend I talk to my academic advisor for courses that offer me the best qualifications for positions I am interested in. So, basically they weren't any help. So if anyone out here knows what courses I should take that would help me get a job tracking down terrorist groups who use the internet, and cyber terrorists, can you let me know?

But I was able to find a number for a local FBI housing agency, so, I'll give them a call.

Yeah, that math makes some sense to me, but as you said, I need to take computer programming courses for it to be totally clear to me, but I'm sure I'll be able to understand it, it doesn't seem too difficult for the most part, but I'm sure it can be.

How does computer forensics work? I mean, how after you delete information and clear cookies, history, etc. is it still there and how and where are they able to locate it on your hard drive, and where would I go to totally erase it, if that is even possible. Or does the hard drive keep it permanately so it can't be completely erased. lol, don't worry, I aint doing nothing I'm not supposed to, I was just wondering how that works, and if even after you clear your browser, can someone else still access stuff like my account numbers, pins, passwords and social security numbers, and what can I do to make those completely safe or erased after I am done using them?

And again, where would I go specifically in an OS to enter equations to tell the computer to do something. What and where is it that you are looking at when you do this, or do you need to install special software for this? And where do investigators go on your hard drive to find the history of the PC, or do they take it to their office and hook it up to another computer that has special software?

Hey, my quote thing worked.

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I plan to apply to the NSA after college, I've wanted to work for them since I was 11 or 12. It's just always been of real interest to me.

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AxxessTerminated, what is it that you wanted to do for the NSA and what were you able to find out from them or from your school such as what courses to take? Or did you find all the info you needed on their website?

Yes, Iowa was the one with the turret explosion. 4-19-89.

Not sure exactly where my son is - near fallujah was the best I could get out of him. We get a cell call occasionally, so he's obviously getting R&R some.

But this thread isn't about military, it's about you choosing your education...

Forensics - ask in that forum. I have very little experience in that sort of arena, but I'd love to learn it as well. There most certainly are tools out there that let you piece together deleted information on a machine...even if the hdd's been physically destroyed. From what I've heard the only true way to be fully rid of something and make it untracable is to delete it, then reformat like 7 times or so, but again this could be just a rumor.

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And again, where would I go specifically in an OS to enter equations to tell the computer to do something. What and where is it that you are looking at when you do this, or do you need to install special software for this?

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This depends entirely on the OS... to get into this end, you've got to know what an OS is, and how it functions. In a basic sense, the operating system is the 'go between' for the disk and the processor on your computer. It interprets the data, and manages the programs on it so you can use them. It also makes sure the drivers for your peripherals are loaded, so that the processor can make them function properly. Certain os's will let you program in equations and such directly - in dos you just typed in the equation at the command prompt if it was simple math. For more involved equations you'll need to write a program in one of the various languages available. Those languages would be the 'special programs' you'd have to have in order to use them. There are also 'batch files', which are nothing more than rudimentary programs that you enter directly into the os to perform functions... using them correctly you can create menus (yes, this is how windows got started), do a bit higher level equations, and even have 'decisions' made based on user input. Depending on the power of the OS you can do more complicated things - in Unix and Linux, you can chain programs, having the output of one become the input of the next, etc., and get into some really complicated stuff. That particular example is doable in dos too, but it's a much more involved process.

hope those helped.

Talk to hogfly about forensics. He's probably the best on this forum.

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But this thread isn't about military, it's about you choosing your education...

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I know brother, it is just good to finally be able to talk to someone I can relate with after all this time.

But all that is done in DOS? I didn't think they even really used that anymore. I remember that from like, the 80's n crap, when I was about 11 years old, or maybe even younger. like: copyC:\porn\outer_heavens porn\*.* A:\outer_heaven\outer_heavens porn\*.* and what that is saying is copy from the c:, subdirectory porn, subdirectory outer_heavens porn, all files, to A drive, subdirectory outer_heaven, subdirectory outer_heavens porn, all files, but I think you don't need that all files command at the end. Damn, I remembered all that from almost 20 years ago.

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Talk to hogfly about forensics. He's probably the best on this forum.

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Okay man, I'll send him a message as soon as I can

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But all that is done in DOS? I didn't think they even really used that anymore.

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Dos hasn't been a widely used O/S since winME, but if you look deeply behind the curtains that pop up on starting a winME/98/95 machine, you'll see good old Dos 6.2 loading up first. Even now in the days of NTFS where windows is actually its own operating system, you have a 'command interpreter' available to you for dos oriented commands - it isn't truly dos anymore, but it emulates it quite nicely (so long as you don't try to do any of the high power stuff within it.)

Yes, your copy commands will still work. It's easier to just drag/drop from windows explorer, but it can still be done manually. (I do that particular commandset quite often being the avid Dos games fanatic I am - helps loading when windows doesn't want to let you install in the first place.)

/me looks longingly at the old 'Dos 5.0' masters he's got sitting up on his shelf and signs off to go play a bit on his dos gaming machine...

I just just went to the college I am going to start at to register for courses, and talked to the head of the IT department at the college. And he told me that as of right now they don't offer any degrees specifically for Computer Secutiry, but that there is a work in progress to start that this fall semester of 2005. Which was fine with me, I guess, cause of my math score on my placement test I took, I have to start off in Elementary Algebra w/ Geometry to bring myself up to speed for the math that they start with in IT. So, I can't enroll in the IT course right away, and was supposed to start off in Liberal Arts and Sciences. But when I talked to the head of the IT department and explained to him my situation, he told me to talk to this other lady tomorrow and that she can get me to start off TK01, whatever that is, because he said when it comes time for me to transfer into IT, there will be less of a problem and that they will be able to work with me better.

My first question is, what do I do about the computer security thing at the school? Will a certificate be sufficient enough for me to continue on more in-depth in Computer Security in what I wanted to do? This college I am about to start is a two-year community college that prepared you for transfer to a four-year college upon completion, which is what I wanted to do anyway. Should I, if they don't give me the chance to go too in depth in Computer Security there, just get my associate's degree there and then will I be able to go into a course that is all about computer security? Or do they even offer courses at four year colleges that are all about or based specifically on computer security?

I mean, I know I should be asking this to advisor's or whatever, and I did, I asked that guy, and told him I am trying to pick out specific courses in IT because I wanted to go into Computer Security, either working for a company or something, protecting their databases from hackers n such, corporate espionage, or, work for the governtment tracking down terrorist groups such as Al Quida who use the internet or cyberterrorists, and that I want to take courses that will groom me specifically for such positions, and he told me to go down the road, where there is this four-year school called Rochester Institute of Technology, and that I should ask them because they might have recommendations for specific courses for me to take and what I should start of in now so I can start working my way toward my objective. But the problem is I am running out of time. And they are busy trying to register other students and sitting down and talking with them, which I understand, but I was hoping he would be able to help me out a little more than that. But at least he said he could switch me into a better course to start out in that will help me transfer over into IT easier. I'll ask that lady tomorrow what TK01 is about, I didn't want to take up too much of his time.

Yes, follow what your advisor outlines - whatever TK101 may be, it'll surely help. Even if it's a blow-off 'intro to computers' course, you can always look at it from the perspective that it's an easy A.

Suggestion number two is to check into your college's accreditation - will their degrees and certificates transfer to other colleges/universities? If so, you have nothing to fear by only getting a certificate, so long as you plan on pursuing it further later on.

Suggestion three - which you haven't brought up yet - is the 'dirty work' involved in getting set up financially for school. GI bill is a nice stipend to keep groceries in the refrigerator while you're in school, but you'll want more help - here's how...

www.fafsa.ed.gov

This is the federal site which allows you to fill out and turn in your "financial aid form" - that magic form which gets you your pell grant. Use it!

Also be sure to stop in at financial aid at the college - tell them you're a vet and ask to speak to their veteran's counselor - all colleges are required to have one. They'll help you get set up for GI bill by giving you the forms you'll need to fill out, starting your file there at the college (and make you fetch in a copy of your DD-214 among other documents), and also help with any other financial aid needs you might have. I'm not sure about how things are in your area, but with GI bill and Pell Grant alone, I was able to go through 4 years of school without needing an outside job, covering all tuition, books, and living expenses.

Luck to you!

[edit] On double-checking the link, I found it'd changed in the several years since I've been back to school. I've changed it to the correct link now. [/edit]

[addedit] Get that FAF done ANORS! (as of now or sooner, all you non-military types). It takes about 12 weeks for Uncle Sugar to get you lined up for Pell after you've submitted it and it's been approved. [/addedit]

i believe the best course of action to take is the intro to linux, but also take that computer science course. when i *was* in college the courses they were teaching were MS vc++ (yuck) and assembler and some database stuff. with that general knowledge you can go on to bigger and better things in my opinion, since c,c++ and assembler are used for a LOT of things these days. combined with linux/unix experience you should have no problems in the security etc area.