EU deal threatens end to US dominance of internet

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Originally posted here by dalek
You all can relax now, it ain't going to happen US Disagrees

The UN over the past 20yrs has been an abject failure (Rwanda, Somalia,Dubai,Etheopia,Bosnia,Croatia,Cyprus) I could go on, but I would run out of room :(

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Hate to disagree but I have been to Bosnia, Croatia and Cyprus with the UN and have lost friends in two of those places in the name of the UN, I have seen first hand the work that is being done there and know what those places would be like without the UN. Whilst the paper pushers at the top of the UN might not have a clue what they are doing, the people on the ground doing the work do quite remarkable work in any country they may be in,

Obviously you have not been to any of them places, so please dont critisize things you dont know much about other than what you read in news papers.

I am not critisizing the troops, and you are right, I have not been there, I should have been more specific and should have stated the beauracrats who run the UN. I served in the Canadian Military for over 20 yrs, and I know of many people who have gone to those places, I also know that we had a regiment disbanded because of UN ineptitude in Somalia. (we made the mistake of allowing the UN to send our Para's in for what was supposed to be a "Peacekeeping Misson") Also our own General Dallaire who pleaded with the UN to send in troops to stop the massacre that was happening with the Tutu's and Hutu's (tribal conflict).

I also think that at first it was NATO who were tasked to do the initial cleaning up then the UN were tasked to send in troops. I know a few members of the Canadian Army who were tasked to go there, and the daily problems they had with 'snipers", I also know members of the Pat's and RCR who served in Cyprus.So I don't just" read it in the News" (which isn't really a bad thing), I can listen to those who went.


Canada has sent a lot of people on UN "Peacekeeping Missions" over the years, and I am proud of their contribution, a lot of people don't really know what it's like to do a tour of duty in places like that, my sister spent 6mths on the Golan Heights back when it was under UN control, boy it's a good thing she isn't there now!!!

So don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and can symphasize, it's the general public which needs educating. :)

Hey I used to live on Hayling Island.(course I used to live in Havant, Gosport, Southampton as well, oh and Chatham)

Yep, gotta agree, the idiots who run the UN live on their own little planet somewhere in their own little galaxy! The troops on the ground from all armies wherever they may be in the world do one of the hardest and least rewarding or thanked jobs in the world.

I apologize to you, I may have been a bit to harsh in my earlier post, but being in the services yourself you must know where I am coming from!

I hear what your saying about snipers - got a nice scar courtesy of one!

What do ya think of Hayling? Im on Thorney island the next one along!- Its a small old world aint it!

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Originally posted here by Nokia


What do ya think of Hayling? Im on Thorney island the next one along!- Its a small old world aint it!

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It's been years since I saw the place, the last time I was in Pompey was 91, and I didn't hang around as I went visiting relatives up in Dagenham. What I remember of Hayling though is kinda funny, I think I was 7 or 8 and me and a mate of mine decided we were going to hide out in the boot of one of the double deckers, only we didn't realise they locked automatically when closed, talk about a wet feeling in the rear of your shorts :rolleyes:

And the last memory I have of Gosport is missing the D**m ferry and having to catch a taxi to get to our hotel in Portsmouth, and being carsick (alcohol may have had something to do with it) the whole trip, should have seen the side of the taxi when we pulled up to the hotel, good thing my buddies hustled me out of the car.

As a sailor I have nothing but good things to say about any of the ports in the UK, they know how to treat the guys in bellbottoms (we don't have them anymore sniff sniff..)(nor rum issue), no wonder it's so hard to recruit nowadays.
:p

sorry for being OT here,

Just to reinterate what others have said, The US created the Internet we run it pretty well all things considered I think, and we let anyone in the world who wants to use it, use it. So why should that change?

Really great arguments there for a failure. You're gonne have to come up with better stuff before you call something an abject failure. You mentioned 7 cases of a "failure" (without arguments, just your opinion) while the UN did thousenths of things.

Some while ago I went to a symposium and one of the speakers was commandeur (brigadeer general or rear admiral whatever) H. Ort from the dutch navy. He was talking about his contribution to the UN-mission in Liberia UNMIL. At that point there had been a 14 year civil war. The UN was there to keep the peace and to get that country back on its feet. At some point someone of the listeners asked him why we send out military resources there and especially what the gain was for ourselves. The guy didn't even understand the question.

What do you think, really, had become of Rwanda, Somalia, Dubai, Etheopia, Bosnia, Croatia, Cyprus without the UN. You think some nation would've interfered? You think Canada or the US or anything big military power was gonne do anything? There is no oil in those countries, those countries have no WMD's, those countries have nothing, they're just killing off everyone ammongst themselves, often BECAUSE previous interference from big military powers, when there still was something to gain and left after that. Are you saying the UN's interference did nothing good in those countries? Do you even go as far as suggesting the UN does some kind of selective ignore trick to counsiously bring more suffering to the world?

Maybe your miltary mind sees the world to easy. You can't just stumble in some country with some big guns without creating more conflict in or outside the area. You can't just enforce your opinion on souverein countries with merely superior firepower. There is more nations and opinions on this world then yours and the bad guys's. And you can't ignore other peoples feelings if you don't want to fall into a bigger conflict wich INCLUDES your own country.

All democratic nations have a bureaucracy. Your deteste for bureaucracy shows you prefer a miltary structure. A dictators structure, with fast medical facilities without any registration, fulltime martial law and with an unreplacable chain of command. Hey, guess what... Doesn't that describe iraq before it got conquered?

Also even if you can somehow convince me the UN is incompetant in peacekeeping, I still don't see your problem with it running a freaking domainname registration service.

neel I have an answer and a question for you:

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Also even if you can somehow convince me the UN is incompetant in peacekeeping, I still don't see your problem with it running a freaking domainname registration service.

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The whole raison d'etre of the UN is peacekeeping..............sure it throws some famine relief work in on the side, but that is about it. I would say that the most logical expansion for the UN would be disater relief/management? at least they would get some credit for it?

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running a freaking domain registration service

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has damn all to do with the UN............I would sooner give the job to the International Postal Union :D

Also, the UN has been audited and found corrupt.......................yet coffee a$$hole hasn't offered his resignation?...................no British Government Minister would survive that sort of scandal.

Can you cite any PROVEN INSTANCES OF ICANN CORRUPTION ???????????????? that is a genuine question BTW.

And I do NOT mean petty political bitching. That is the problem with the UN as I see it........too many ambassadors taking their own country's political agenda to the table rather than reading their charter and upholding that.

And I certainly DO NOT want coffee a$$hat's third wife's second cousin's dawg managing my domain registration service. :eek:

My views :)

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The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.

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http://www.un.org/aboutun/basicfacts/unorg.htm
Peacekeeing is not the whole raison d'etre, also with that being totally besides my point. You'll have to convince me the UN is incompetent at peacekeeping in a way I explained in me previous post. The internet isn't owned by the US so it shouldn't be ran by the US. The UN is the closest to a fair international organisation. Also corruption is not at all being questioned here. But when yer add it how about you cite proven instances of UN corruption and I also do not mean petty political bitching. And while corruption is such an important thing for you, maybe you should look up some proven corruptions in both the US and UK police and armies.

The so called superior power of the US over the internet is build on a few match sticks and is totally rediculous. I heard no reasons for the ICANN other then that it works atm. The suggestion from the UK clearly shows it doesn't seem to work from the perspective of "the rest of the world".

neel old chap, what the UN "thinks" it is there for, and what it has the infrastructure to perform are two quite different things

The UN has never stopped a thermonuclear war.................only people with nukes can do that ;) and they sure as hell do not answer to ragamuffin banana republics:)

As for corruption, please type these two into your Google search engine:

"UN Corruption"
"ICANN Corruption"

The first will get you over 62,000 items, the second a mere 37 (thirty-seven)

Here is one to get you started:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090701646.html

As for corruption within a country...............that is between the citizens and its government..........at least they are not pretending to be "internationalist" and "as pure as the driven snow"



:)

neel

I don't want to get into a slagging match about peacekeepers, I respect all of the men and women who wear the "Blue Beret", and Canadians have done their part Canada's Blue Berets. Where as this particular unit should never be allowed to wear a Blue Beret again.
srebrenica

As for getting my facts straight about the abject failures, where have you been hiding, do you consider the situation in Cyprus over and done with, it did start in 1964, it is now what 2005 and counting.(41 yrs)

The Golan Heights started way back in 1947 and the United Nations Disengaement Force (UNDOF) were asked to set up shop in 1974, what year is it now 2005.(31 yrs)

Rwanda Massacre


And obviously you have never worn a uniform, otherwise this argument would be redundant, so until you know of what you are talking about, go talk to some serving members or veterans. And to explain Somalia, it was a dismal failure for our Canadian Airborne because, philisophically they are trained to "Kill" not babysit and hold hands, the Airborne of any nation who has one are highly trained personnell who must be ready to go into any situation, Somalia was not that type of situation. So when the S**t hit the fan the locals threw us out, there was no support from the UN of any type.

As for corruption, it is not only corrupted in terms of money but also when it comes down to making decisions, for years, up until the wall fell, the USSR and China thought it would be a lot of fun to veto any security resolution when it pertained to reigning in a rogue nation, and that's why the US finally gave up throwing financial support to what was a clique (I agree with the current US stance on reformation of the UN from top to bottom), the reason why the US is forced to play World Police man is because of all of the stupid bickering that goes on at these meetings, I kinda liken it to the scenes from Star Wars, all of these weird looking aliens making weird silly noises. :o

Oh yeah and if supposing the UN had it's act together when it should have, maybe just maybe, the US and the UK would not be stuck cleaning up the crap in the middle east.

Just to finish off OT, there is no way in hell a bunch of petty diplomats are going to be able to manage, maintain and basically organise the Internet. :mad: