if your in the US and annoy someone on the web, goto jail.

Quote:

---

If Joey was on probation and failed his drug test they could revoke his probation and return him to prison...however, if he was on probation they wouldn't let him go to Amsterdam in the first place, so they could also prosecute him for illegal drug use (he couldn't go anywhere, so he stayed home and got stoned..).

---

More a question than anything else. Us Brits, at least those serving have to abide by thier own countries laws plus the host countries laws. At least as far as my knowledge of Queens regs and the Manual of Military law goes. Do not you yanks have the same?

And as a general observation of the thread. You are loosing your constitutional rights one by one just as surely as we Brits are loosing those rights Magna Carter gave us. All under the unbrella of The Fight Against Terrorism.................................. Go look up what terrorism is. It's not what you think. It is however what you let your government get away with to save money on policing etc?

Jinx - in the military, yes. No matter if you're in the US or outside it, you're bound by US law as well as UCMJ, and also the country you're visiting's laws. Civilians don't bear this restriction - something to do with the 'soverignity of citizenship' as it were. They're 'requested' to abide by US law, but a request to a civilian just isn't enforcable.


As to your general observation, I couldn't agree more. The landslide (as far as I perceived it) began with the illegalization of opiates back in the 1800's and has continually worsened over the centuries. With each new session of congress, a tiny bit of the 'freedoms' we hold so dearly are taken away. Our "Patriot Act" dealt a death blow to several things we hold dear, all in the name of 'safety'. Where in our constitution does it say the government has the duty to keep us safe other than by providing a military and giving us the right to bear arms (which is rapidly disappearing too - thanks Brady)? Gone are the days when one could walk naked through the park wearing green jello and reading penthouse magazine...wait a sec, they never existed anyway. Sucks to be me.

I'd sooner live in Germany - the populace is better educated, you can drive as fast as you want on the Autobahn, sunbathe naked in the parks, and drink beer 24/7. If only I could master the language. The UK is looking mighty good too, most especially the sense of community one gains when hanging out in the local pub, but the taxes are just entirely too bloody high and you drive on the wrong side of the road. How's the employment/unemployment rate there?

Quote:

---

If there is a will, there is a way, and we are not that naive to think that law enforcement will not use any means available to justify the end results.......One of the biggets problems is having too much trust in the Law to begin with, people readily allow State Troopers to look in the trunk, even though you have the right to say no, and get a lawyer, or force them to get a warrant, most of the busts they do is because people don't know how to say no to authority.....it's all there, if you know where to look......

---

Exactly, people don't know their rights... But they're good at it, they'll talk fast and say something like:

"blah blah I'm with the police, you don't have to talk to me if you don't want but I'd like to ask you a couple of questions... do you have weed on you? It be terrible if I had to search you..."

Something like that...

Quote:

---

Duck,

Are you sure? I thought if they have probable cause, just like drunk driving, they can arrest you and make you take the test or something....

---

Yes I'm sure, even with reasonable suspicion or PC they'll still arrest you (if they have PC), but if you say no to the breathalyzer then they can't use that as evidence against you in court and your likely to get a lighter sentence/punishment...

Quote:

---

I don't know about Canada, but he in the US the US Supreme Court ( and most state courts ) have ruled that urine ( and blood ) are non-testimonial in nature, thus you have no right to refuse. The use of catheters has been upheld to retrieve such evidence ( under medically approved conditions by qualified personnel, ) along with strapping a person down.

---

This is in response to both Iknownot and iron kurton... Iknownot, you are correct, but only under certain circumstances. Usually the only time someone is forced to take a blood test/breathalyzer is when a homicide of some sort has taken place or someone has gotten seriously injured... If a drunk hits someone he'll probably be forced to take the blood test/breathalyzer, but other then that the police do not have the power to force you to take a test just for swerving on the road or smelling like weed...


|3lack|ce brings up some good points about previous charges on things like drug use... But I'm not sure what your rights are under those circumstances... it's best to leave those things to someone who really knows what they're talking about... like Mrs Ice :)...

Quote:

---

I'd sooner live in Germany - the populace is better educated, you can drive as fast as you want on the Autobahn, sunbathe naked in the parks, and drink beer 24/7. If only I could master the language. The UK is looking mighty good too, most especially the sense of community one gains when hanging out in the local pub, but the taxes are just entirely too bloody high and you drive on the wrong side of the road. How's the employment/unemployment rate there?

---

The language is not to difficult, they mostly all speak English :D . Don't fall for the, "no speed limit thing", they can and will nick (right you up?) for speeding. The drinking 24/7 is not condusive to maintaining a job for very long ;)

As for us driving on the wrong side of the road. It is the left side, which is still the right side :p

There are plenty of jobs going over here, the pay is an insult and the conditions are a discrace, and thats for the good jobs.

nick you - in American english it'd be 'write you a ticket'.

Quote:

---

As for us driving on the wrong side of the road. It is the left side, which is still the right side

There are plenty of jobs going over here, the pay is an insult and the conditions are a discrace, and thats for the good jobs.

---

The left side is the wrong side according to most of Europe, and all of the US, Mexico, and (I'm pretty sure) Canada. Surely we all can't be wrong? Far as I know it's y'all and Jamaica mon. :D

Jobs - sounds like the US job situation of late. It's definitely an employer's market.

Ok, off for the night - thunder and lightning aren't good for a wireless network and my router's getting flaky :P

Quote:

---

Usually the only time someone is forced to take a blood test/breathalyzer is when a homicide of some sort has taken place or someone has gotten seriously injured... If a drunk hits someone he'll probably be forced to take the blood test/breathalyzer, but other then that the police do not have the power to force you to take a test just for swerving on the road or smelling like weed...

---

No, you are wrong.

For starters, look at SCHMERBER v. CALIFORNIA , a U.S. Supreme Court discussion.

Then go from there and look for applicable case law concerning your state. The suspect not only has no legal right to withhold the specimen, but also has no legal right to have an attorney present during the taking of those samples.

What is needed, as I said, is probable cause , probable cause to believe the specimen sought will contain evidence of an offense, and probable cause to arrest the person for the offense. ( " Fishing expeditions " are not permitted. )

As far as the vehicular homicide, the taking of blood etc. may come under a different statute then drunk driving. Here, if you, as a driver, are involved in an accident where a death occurs you must submit to blood tests, even though there may be no probable cause to believe the driver is intoxicated: this, in my state, is in administrative code, separate from the motor vehicle statutes.

|3lack|ce

Quote:

---

The left side is the wrong side according to most of Europe, and all of the US, Mexico, and (I'm pretty sure) Canada. Surely we all can't be wrong? Far as I know it's y'all and Jamaica mon.

---

Actually.......................


1. Anguilla
2. Antigua and Barbuda
3. Australia
4. Bahamas
5. Bangladesh
6. Barbados
7. Bermuda
8. Bhutan
9. Botswana
10. Brunei
11. Cayman Islands
12. Christmas Island (Australia)
13. Cook Islands
14. Cyprus
15. Dominica
16. East Timor
17. Falkland Islands
18. Fiji
19. Grenada
20. Guernsey (Channel Islands)
21. Guyana
22. Hong Kong
23. India
24. Indonesia
25. Ireland
26. Isle of Man
27. Jamaica
28. Japan
29. Jersey (Channel Islands)
30. Kenya
31. Kiribati
32. Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)
33. Lesotho
34. Macau
35. Malawi
36. Malaysia
37. Maldives
38. Malta
39. Mauritius
40. Montserrat
41. Mozambique
42. Namibia
43. Nauru
44. Nepal
45. New Zealand
46. Niue
47. Norfolk Island (Australia)
48. Pakistan
49. Papua New Guinea
50. Pitcairn Islands (Britain)
51. Saint Helena
52. Saint Kitts and Nevis
53. Saint Lucia
54. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
55. Seychelles
56. Singapore
57. Solomon Islands
58. South Africa
59. Sri Lanka
60 . Suriname
61 . Swaziland
62. Tanzania
63. Thailand
64. Tokelau (New Zealand)
65. Tonga
66. Trinidad and Tobago
67. Turks and Caicos Islands
68. Tuvalu
69. Uganda
70. United Kingdom
71. Virgin Islands (British)
72. Virgin Islands (US) Remember this when you visit
73. Zambia
74. Zimbabwe........... :p

Our Military also comes under strict rules for observing other countries laws, in fact, it's almost "double jeopardy" in that once the foreign courts have had their say with you, then Military Justice takes over, so you may only recieve a fine from the local judge, but the Military can then nail you for a catch 22 type charge, wherein in the best interests of the Armed Forces you are judged to be expendable, so here spend a couple of months in detention then on release, they force you out......

Brings up story which is on topic..........back in 1982 while onboard a Canadian Destroyer we and a sister ship pulled into Livorno Italy for a 5 day jaunt, the first night ashore 5 of our lads got into some serious trouble with the local authorities, turns out 2 of these guys (all French Canadians) were having a heated discussion at a local watering hole, now if you know French Canadian's they can get pretty emotional when arguing with each other, and if you didn't know this they would look like they were about to tear each other's heads off.........soooo a bystander decided to intervene....wrong!!!! the lads took offence and proceeded to beat the crap out of this person, well this is Italy, home of the spaghetti westerns, and before you knew it the whole place erupted into a free for all, by the time the mini riot was over, 4 cars had been turned over and torched, and the 5 guys arrested and taken to the local lockup...

Well that guy they beat the crap out of, turns out he was a plainclothes cop, and the precint they were at was his....each lad was seperated and placed into a cell by themselves. Our CO immidiatley contacted Baden Germany, and the JAG flew down.Our skipper and the XO went to the jail to talk with the guys, what he saw incensed him greatly, seems the local law liked to play rough when they outnumbered the prisoners. The guys were beat up pretty bad, our CO vowed that we would not leave Livorno until the guys were on board, come Saturday they were brought on board and we sailed, the 2 who were involved from the beginning were tried in absentia, and convicted, if either of them steps foot in Italy they can do 2 years.

Side story.....while they were in cells, they came across a couple of American swabbies off of the USS Saratoga, who had been left behind three Months earlier, their charge....you may think this is funny, but I bet those lads didn't think so afterwards, they were busted for pinching Italian broads in the as*, see they probably saw Dean Martin or Frankie doing this on the big screen and thought it would be cool to do the same thing, "while in Italy do like the Italians" not so....

So yeah, if you are visiting another country, get aquainted with the local laws.........

Sorry Sarah eh? Had a bud on her. Hope he wasn't one of the offending bum pinchers.

US military is much the same on 'double jeopardy permissable.' You get tried in civilian court, do your time, pay your fine, then get courts martialed for the same thing and pay again, or vice versa.

Thanks for the long list :P

Na this is something we can get away with, just add a disclaimer to all your posts. LOL (got to love the discaimers)

Iknownot... I understand where your coming from... I'll have to have a talk with my legal issues teacher, a very good authority on the law (graduated from loyola university in chicago)... I'm guessing he was forced to take the test because he might have done a lot of property damage.... It didn't say how much damage as done, but I also didn't look very hard...

But I will say your comment is not 100% correct, how do I know? I know from experience, my mother has gotten 2 DUI's last year, the first time she got pulled over they "requested" her to take the breathalyzer test, she said no and therefore got a lighter punishment, the second time I'm not sure what happened and her punishment was much more severe and I'll leave it at that...

Bottom line is, my family and I have a lot of experience dealing with the law, so I know for a fact that very rarely are you forced to take any kind of tests unless you killed someone, injured somone, or did a lot of property damage... The reason you see alot people taking those tests is because they simply don't know they're rights...

I will talk more about this with my law teacher as well...