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I didn't even start using IE until 1999 or 2000 and I was in the "internet" since the late 80s using SLIP. There is a definite case for MS and it's IE browser having influence on the extreme growth of the internet. But that can also be said about AOL and their early browser.
I was simply trying to get those guys to understand that if Mcft did not supply IE with its OS, other browsers would have just evolved. I do believe another Firefox or something different and perhaps even better would have still rolled around. I remember Netscape navigator... yea. But it was only a baby, in those days.
My history of this subject is a little rusty these days, however; the 'Internet', was quite well established and growing, at a time when Microsoft didn't believe there was a need to network PCs. They didn't even ship early versions of 'Windows', with a TCP/IP stack.
That said, the exponential growth of the internet, is very much linked to the explosion of PC ownership, which we have seen in recent years. Like it or not Microsoft has added more than it’s fare share to this.
Quantum link with maybe a 1200 baud modem? I was using a 300. I used another board called Delphi.
I don't think Microsoft should be handed a medal for the Internet. As others pointed out, they have done quite a bit that could be considered harmful. They did kind of push PCs onto a common user's home desk, however the Mac was a home user's machine too, and they didn't really do a thing to harm it as far as I know.
The net as we know it and before we knew it, was built for BSD. There's a joke I haven't heard in a while:
Windows NT, built for the Internet.
The Internet - Built for BSD.
If you want to listen to someone who was there talk about this subject buy a DVD called "20 Years of Berkeley UNIX" it has a good chunk of the history on it. I bought it from bsdmall.
IE as a browser.... I'll be good heh. I think it does a GREAT job at what it is SUPPOSED to do. It's the **** it does it wasn't supposed to that makes me want to pull the glue out of my mohawk. (Like crashing, being unstable, though for the most part that has been somewhat fixed and isn't like it used to be).
I trained myself on using Links and Lynx though too. I wanted to see what text only browsing was like so I used that, Pine, Elm, Mutt, FTP, and things like that just to get a feel for what it was like before I owned a computer.
I still use Mutt as my main client. I like it. I still use Links or Lynx from time to time if I know exactly what I'm looking for, or for when I'd be at school downloading things to a home machine over SSH.
Where would the internet be today without Mcft?
I dare say, it would be somewhat less commercial, with fewer viruses.
I refuse to believe that. Its like when people say that there are far fewer viruses for mac. Of course there are. If you want to catch as many credit card numbers as possible you write your virus for the mainstream OS. I very much doubt that mac OS has fewer bugs in total than Windows.Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencrow
There was a comparison on The Register - bugs in IE vs bugs in FF. They both had a similar number of bugs, but as has been said - bugs in Firefox don't compromise the entire OS. (slight irony here as I realise that "Firefox" is not in the Firefox dictionary. Haha.)
Lets face it - the real reason that most people don't change from IE to other browsers is that IE does the job. Sure, it makes designing a website a PITA because IE renders it COMPLETELY differently to FF, but for the average dumb user who just wants to read the news, emails and maybe visit a chatroom thats not really a problem.
And Re my "how do I download...." statement, how do I download the FTP client? how do I download the telnet client? point being, at some point the OS has to come with SOMETHING and it might as well be IE. Again, thinking of the home user. That will always be my argument. Its all well and good us saying we can get firefox, or even code our own browser, but in the end the home user CAN'T and MS have done the clever thing and made an OS that will sell to the home user. Why? because there are a lot more home users than people like us. That means a lot more income for them.
I remember having no problems surfing the net on my amiga with a graphical interface. Also dont forget MS didnt create IE they bought it like about 90% of the applications integrated in windows. The only reason they intergarated it into the OS was to block the competition. I believe that the death of other computer systems like the Amiga, Atari ST ect was the worst thing to ever happen to home computing in general. The amiga os was years ahead of windows at the time.
I would have to say that netscape is the one that changed the net for "normal" people. If it wasn't for Netscape I don't think that MS would have done IE so impeded with in windows. How many systems that had win3.1 that used Netscape?
Just for the sake of arguement and to bring up a few things in a non-mean way:
I doubt that too, big companies suck at writing software without some problem or another. Why? Because they have motivation called money where as some dude who needs something that doesn't exist has an actual need to make the software and make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aardpsymon
Basically how Linux was started. Linus needed and wanted a UNIX type OS and didn't think Minix was enough so he made his own. He didn't do it for the money he did it because he needed it.
However, I also believe people should be paid for their work. Linus has a BMW so that evens it out I guess lol.
Just a quick point here on this:Quote:
There was a comparison on The Register - bugs in IE vs bugs in FF. They both had a similar number of bugs, but as has been said - bugs in Firefox don't compromise the entire OS. (slight irony here as I realise that "Firefox" is not in the Firefox dictionary. Haha.)
When software comes on CD like for example IE, you can't see the source code to it. Open source and Free software on the other hand, come with sources, and you can actually look at it and find the bugs yourself, so, in theory mind you, these things SHOULD have more problems since you can look for them right in the code.
I agree. My family has a lot of people in it and they all want a computer. Guess who gets phone calls (or used to before I left the country and became long distance, rendering myself more expensive to call than tech support *Giggle*) to help with computer problems? Of course ;)Quote:
Lets face it - the real reason that most people don't change from IE to other browsers is that IE does the job. Sure, it makes designing a website a PITA because IE renders it COMPLETELY differently to FF, but for the average dumb user who just wants to read the news, emails and maybe visit a chatroom thats not really a problem.
One day I got tired of my cousin calling. I had him bring the machine to my house and had the agreement of how much he'd pay me to fix it. He wouldn't pay so I took his brand new computer, installed PC-DOS on it which did wonders for price bargaining, and then when paid I just popped Linux on there and set up SSH so I could fix problems without a phone call heh.
Worked like a charm. I just set it up for updates and didn't give him root, and the box was fine.
Again I agree. An OS needs tools to be useful, that's what makes it an OS in the first place really. I mean I could easily sit down and show someone how to install Slackware in 50 keyboard clacks or less and tell it to run init 4 at boot, and they wouldn't really know the difference after I changed the icons to look like Windows ones, but when someone buys a computer and they know damn near nothing about it, which in my experience is most of the time if you walk into any BestBuy, then they aren't going to go home and know how to partition a drive or install a whole new OS.Quote:
And Re my "how do I download...." statement, how do I download the FTP client? how do I download the telnet client? point being, at some point the OS has to come with SOMETHING and it might as well be IE. Again, thinking of the home user. That will always be my argument. Its all well and good us saying we can get firefox, or even code our own browser, but in the end the home user CAN'T and MS have done the clever thing and made an OS that will sell to the home user. Why? because there are a lot more home users than people like us. That means a lot more income for them.
My Mom bought a computer not long ago. She said "Make this work" heh. For the record though, I installed SUSE on Her machine and She used it just fine.
I told Her the icons on the desktop were browsers and email clients and how to type things up, and She was fine with it. I installed multiple browsers to show Her what it meant to have a choice and She used a mixture of Firefox and Netscape and once ina while Konqueror depending on which Window Manager She used and it actually worked out.