Printable View
our country is starting to turn away from the original foundation that our forefathers had intended. it has degenerated to a point where freedom is no longer important. when and if this act passes, we will be moving towards what many would consider communism.... sad but true....
"those who sacrifice freedom for security; will not have, nor deserve, either."
-Thomas Jefferson
on a side note.... i do very much realize that when people regained there freedom after world war 2, it was a hard fought battle.... but the point is, they got them back. it still ended positively. and my point is/was that we may also need to fight for our rights. i also wanted to point out that this time it may be even harder to regain our rights because so many more rights are being lost and so many underlying gov't desires will be fulfilled by this new act (such as the FBI's use of carnivore). so whoever gave me negative points because i was misled.... i wasn't misled, i just didn't feel i needed to clarify. in the end i was right.... they did regain rights. my point was not how.... but that they did... and that it is possible. and that i hope it is possible this time.
The govt is just taking advantage of the civilain people by disguising their "power greed" laws and intigrating it into a bill that would surely get a lot of votes because its called "Anti-Terrorism Act"
I mean like.. the word "Terrorism" has now become a cliche or a buzzword in politics these days.. and not to mention President George's over use of the word "evil".
Personally i see the Anti-Terrorism Act as a wolf under sheep's clothing..
and that's not just the first time the govt has done that...
One of the reasons that the current legislation in the UK is being opposed by the upper house (effectively the Senate), is that there is no legal definition of what a terrorist is. And recently the UK goverment suggested that someone suspected of smuggling cigarettes into the UK should be classed as a terrorist suspect, on the grounds that the money might be used to fund terrorirst groups. So effectively it means that the new powers they are proposing could be used against almost anyone.
I suspect the same thing applies to the legislation passed in the US. Which means that you need to have some independent authority to verify that the legislation is being used appropriately.
or you need to have no such legislation... i understand we are all upset and such.... but reading american citizen's emails and monitoring there internet activity is not going to stop terrorism. busting into places without a warrant is not going to keep people from blowing up buildings. even if they had read the alledged emails of the people involved this time... they would have found nothing. all the messages were encrypted in images. and the fbi would not have looked there. i think that this may be the most ridiculous idea to stop terrorism. i agree something needs to be done.... but i don't think that this will help. that includes FBI carnivore.
solarismka, I have never thought about the rights the people of Canada gave up in WWII my mother and grandmother are English so I tend to just think about US/UK thank's you made me think...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by -=solarismka=-
After world war 2 people didn't just get there freedoms back like a switch on a key board. It took many many years. There were many scandels and upsets. And eventualy groups formed and protested and fought and fought and eventually gave you and I more freedom than what they had in there time. Until now that is...........................
:(
I take Aristotle's view of "democracy" if there is such a thing. The last real democracy died in Athens. This REPUBLIC that we have now has followed the path EXACTLY as Aristotle said it would. When you let everyone vote ..regardless of intelligence...social standing... you end up with a state that will legislate funds to itself until it folds ,giving way as did in Germany to DICTATORSHIP.
its the "fallacy of ad populace" all over(the majority is always RIGHT). Our elections are nothing but popularity contests. If you have the money and the image you win .You don't DARE stand on your own convictions for fear of "offending" someone.. so you have none ... or you adopt the most popular opinion as foretold by the oracle of modern politics ....THE POLL
Quote:
Originally posted by larryjs
The last real democracy died in Athens. Our elections are nothing but popularity contests. If you have the money and the image you win .You don't DARE stand on your own convictions for fear of "offending" someone.. so you have none ... or you adopt the most popular opinion as foretold by the oracle of modern politics ....THE POLL
I always though of you as a bit of a jerk, larry. Actually, I thought you were a right dickhead. But after this post my opinion of you is slowly changing. Polotics appears to be something we agree on..;)
sadly.... all government seems to decay over time. which is why it must continue to change. change is what will sustain the freedoms we have. i just hope that there are people willing to help and try to change things instead of sitting back and letting it go.
EXACTLY..... our founding fathers never meant to let goverment get as powerful as it is now..as a matter of fact Thomas Jefferson went so far as to say "We need to have a revolution every 10 years so the goverment doesn't lose touch with the poeple" This wasn't reflected in his legislature..then again the "separation of church and state" isn't ANYWHERE in the constitution. It says that congress shall pass a state religion . In a PRIVATE LETTER TJ coined the phrase separation of church and state. I am saying this only to show how ideas and phrases decay over time to mean something totally diffirent than the original intention.Quote:
Originally posted by lord_darkside_x
sadly.... all government seems to decay over time. which is why it must continue to change. change is what will sustain the freedoms we have. i just hope that there are people willing to help and try to change things instead of sitting back and letting it go.