Don't worry, Preacher. I know where you're coming from. I agree with what some of what he had to say. I could have probably understood more of his argument if he hadn't been so bent on throwing insults that he lost the whole argument. When I asked him for his reasons for hating this site, I figured he would be thrilled somebody was willing to listen to him, and he would talk civilly. Instead, I get called a loser, and a really moody, nasty rant about how horrible this place is. It doesn't bother me, but if I was him and somebody was willing to listen to my side of the story with an open mind, I would take the time to present an intelligent argument.
If he wants to calm down and present a good argument as to why this place is so bad, I'm still willing to listen. I believe that even though his methods are extremely unpopular (and also childish), there is a valid argument buried in there. There were valid arguments among his rants, such as the lack of information in the forums. Let's face it, there isn't as much information flowing through here as there used to be. Why? Because there really are a lot of people here who are just starting out, aren't cut-out for computers, or just don't care about learning. The big difference is that I don't let it get to me. Hell, I'm probably partly to blame for it. After all, there is only so much a 16 year old can know. The difference is that I am learning. It's mostly not security, but I'm learning as best I can with the materials I have. I'm currently miles ahead of even the best computer students at my school, and I'm still packing the knowledge away as fast as I can. I'm currently trying to master Linux. I even have SuSE on this machine (an easy distro, but I need the functionality, and you have to start somewhere). When I'm good enough, I want to switch over to Slackware. I also have a Red Hat 7 box that I have turned into a web server. The site sucks, but web design isn't currently my primary focus. I even have a book on C for Linux that I'm currently reading. It's very interesting so far. I'm about to get a junker machine, on which I'm going to install FreeBSD. I'm considering the possibility of turning it into an FTP server for various files (and if I get bored enough, maybe an open relay :lildevil: ) No, I'm not a security expert, but honestly, how many people are? Not many. If you had to be a security expert to get an account here, this site would have 2 members at the most. It would probably have none.
Once again, I agree there are people here who don't want to learn about computers, but why is that such a big deal? They're still good for the conversation, and it keeps this site from becoming a total bore. I do, however, think that there isn't as much information flowing through here as there should be, but I also think that it doesn't justify the reaction it's getting from oblio. I see some of his argument, but I think he's being a bit irrational about it.
oblio: Maybe now, you will hopefully understand that while not everybody here is as knowledgeable as some say you are, some of us really do want to learn. You can't start off as a security expert. If you could, learning it would be no fun. So maybe for a minute, you can forget those who don't want to learn, and spread the knowledge to those who do. There really ARE some knowledgeable people in here who will listen to what you have to say, and would be glad to have the help from somebody who knows more than they do. Just forget those that do not want to learn. It's not worth getting pissed over, and they really are good to keep this site from becoming a total bore. Although, there is a limit, and I do agree that we have probably exceeded it. Posts such as the "Christina Aguilera" ones really are nothing more than unneccessary gossip. However, that "World's Longest Thread" you hate so much, that is just a fun little thing that has been added to the forums.
If you think this site is so horrible, maybe you could suggest somewhere else for those of us who are serious about learning? How about some good reading or reference materials? Surely you must be willing to help those of us who are here for other things than just chit chat.
So what about Remote_Access_ and his cut and paste tutorials? He has credited them properly, and he obviously thinks that they would be useful to somebody. It just adds one more thing for newbies to learn at this site. If I stumbled upon something I felt would be useful to post, I would do the same. Maybe he does it too much. I don't know for sure, as I don't visit the tutorials forum a lot. Even if he does, it's not that big of a deal.
What I'm trying to say, is that you should probably consider quitting your fight with those who do not want to learn, as it's a lost battle from the beginning. Instead, why not pay more attention to those of us who do know what they're doing, such as petemcevoy, Vorlin, or MsMittens? They obviously know more than almost all of the members here, and are perfectly capable of intelligent, advanced conversation. When I stumble across something I get stuck at, they're usually the first people I go to for additional help. For example, petemceovy (and also MsMittens to an extent) helped me out when I was just starting out with Linux. Now, I'm up and on my feet, and learning at a steady pace.
As for the newbies, I know they can be annoying sometimes, but most of them come for honest help, and do want to learn. The best thing to do is help them out, and maybe even hold their hand a little while they come up to speed. If they meet you halfway in effort (or at least try to), I see no problem with that. Yes, there are newbies out there who just want to become script kiddies and hack Hotmail, but those always get flamed to the point of straightening up, or leaving.
