Opinion on hackers

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Originally posted here by Ouroboros
I'm a little late in replying to this one, but just thought I'd put in my $0.02 on the "house/security flaw" issue. Almost anyone can walk up to a house to test the lock...but how many people even know HOW to find the 'house' when it comes to locating flaws in server/network security? I would like to think that most people that CAN perform such feats would enjoy notifying the proper people upon finding such holes. Kind of that warm and fuzzy 'I'm actually helping people' feeling. Laws be damned, eventually people will drop their pride and celebrate being notified of a hole that could have been a major disaster for their particular entity(company, VPN, home gaming system, whatever...) Hell, some people get paid mega-$ to do exactly that...but just because someone on the outside does it, it becomes illegal, even if no malice was intended? That's f***ed up. The laws that govern the exchange of digital information are outdated, and are based mainly in fear and a kind of 'cyber'xenophobia.

Hackers = good, and I'm forever impressed by their skills and what they use them for; Crackers=bad, and while I'm still impressed by their technical skills, thier sense of morality and justice are severely flawed.
The powers that be need only recognize the difference and adjust the laws accordingly...it must be possible by now, don't you think?

Ouroboros

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yes the laws need to be changed... but the problem is to get passed the money issue... big corporations have money, most hackers don't.. which means that hackers loose in court and big corporations buy power from the politicians and use that power to make more money so they once again can buy more power... u follow me, hehe... if there's power to take, they'll take it... not for any special reason, they just feel they need it... (ok, money is always a reason to them)

that's the way it is. money is nearly always the issue. so why don't we just take all our money and burn it. would be hell of a fire. and we would do somethin against inflation to. :)

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that's the way it is. money is nearly always the issue. so why don't we just take all our money and burn it. would be hell of a fire. and we would do somethin against inflation to.

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Besides the obvious answer, the destruction of hard currency is illegal in most countries ;).

Firstly I know I go on about this analogy but hacking skill are like a martial art, they are skill it the INDIVIDUAL whom decide how to use those skills. Just because you can kill someone with a single strike does not mean you will, but a individual might. The law on cyber crime are too excessive in my opinion it like saying that every martial artist should never use or practice their skills. The law for martial art tends to in most cases (though there are exceptions) that if a martial artist uses there skill responsible practice them with consent of those whom they are practicing with no harm then its all legal. Now moving this into the “hacking” discussion, entering a system though a hole and altering the network of this hole is a good thing in theory though as many have stated this can be risky. Moving back to martial arts for a second, for a long time on a specific move I dropped my left hand opening my chin for a good belt to it, it was not until this was pointed out to me that I sorted it, this could have been dangerous in the fact the technique was used against an knife attack, if a REAL attacker saw this they could have put me down and well I would have been ****ed. This is the same as computer secretly, if you have a weakness it can be used, if the person using it has no intent of causing harm and informs the network/company of this fault then yes they have done a service and yes the company should be grateful. If the person cause damage in any way to the company though either the access or by publishing information that leads the company being harmed that is wrong and should be legislated against, at the moment this is not the case, the law are too tough and have serious lack of understanding, this need to change. On a lighter note if you really want to have a laugh at some of the laws still in power have a look at this site.

Kindred69

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Originally posted here by Viperbite
I was wondering why you think that finding a security hole in someones system is ok. Even if you tell them about it and how to fix it.

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Its not ok, unless they request your help.

Regards,

T6286

Everyone has the right to thier opinion,you dont have to like it or agree with it.
Like the saying goes" opinions are like *******s,everyone has one".

Crimina1

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opinions are like *******s,everyone has one

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And some of us have two!

Something similar to this tread happened to a relative of mine. My uncle (The one responsible for my addiction to computers) is the administrator at Revenue Canada in Toronto. He was surfing the net one day and found instruction on how to "hack" your system/network. He gave it a try and it worked. He went and told his boss who was estatic about the find and thanked my uncle. However, when his boss to his boss, he did not see it the same way and put both my uncle and his boss on suspension, pending an investigation. The investigation lasted 5 weeks (no pay) and the end result found my uncle was in good intentions. Then, my uncle had to take legal actions towards his employer to receive his backpay. (Which he did)

Basically, it all boils down to the perception of the person... or the eye of the beholder.

Don't ask. Don't tell.

-Bill Clinton-
:cool:

Well, here is my 0.02 part. First a reality check, most systems employ a firewall of some sort now so budding white hats even have a problem because even if you get past the wall and onto a server are you so sure the logs reside upon that server? Yeah the script kidds abound mostly. My point is what is the motivation to explore a network that does not belong to you nor do you pay for? To find out how it works. Sorry I'm a butt head Admin person those systems you pound away at are usually small business as in under 500 employees. My own system has about 50 users between them and the script kiddies I have to filter out so much noise. Would I apperciate a person breaking into my system the answer is NO why cause while the info is great you may not have any knowledge of the business their services and the emplyees and if they even have the way to pay for or assure that some outside geek consultant is securing the network or setting up the next visit. Forget the rattle the door anology you find one open fine a phone call get more attention then a email. It's a simple concept called respect. You find an open door on the block do you knock see if anyone is home if not close and lock the door? Will I be ok thanks perhaps if I have an open door hard to say, you mess with my 5 boxes and about 38 million a year of business that resides on them expect me to get pissy, LOL just like the company that stole our entire web site and I watched them change stuff live on-line! Yeah oh butt puckers it got a Fedreal Copyright Complaint they stole about 50k worth of stuff they did not develope..Money is always an issue especally when you pay for it and someone else just takes it. Respect but the knowledge you have and all those small business that have to hire a rent a geek to fix their systems and also set them up for the next visit :-) Who is really screwing who? Act with ethics and respect that is what you get :-)