$US and the Pledge of Allegiance

I hope you'll forgive me for giving you too much credit jcmcb. I thought that someone of your intelligence would be familiar with the search engine known as google. Here's how it works... You go to www.google.com. Then you type any one of my quotations in the little text box with quotation marks around it. Then you hit enter so you can see dozens of references to my quotes. Then, you might want to try your quotes... You'll have a lot harder time there, since you will find some responses, but none of them were said by to the people you attributed them to. Perhaps I should post this in the tutorial section? If you ask a stupid question, you'll get a stupid answer. My quotes were not intended as an attack, but an attempt to make you take a second look at the things you KNOW to be true.

I read through the deist website you referenced, and a few of the points it makes fit with what I've learned of the founding fathers. I am not naive enough to believe that these men held beliefs that were 100% compatible with Christianity, and I hope that you are not naive enough to think that their beliefs are 100% compatible with your notion of Deism. If you want a full picture of their beliefs, then you must read about all of the angles of their lives. You can quote all of the Deist websites you want to, and I can quote all of the Christian websites I want to. I'm certain that neither of them portrays the full spectrum of their beliefs because both have an agenda. If they run across a quote by Franklin that doesn't prove the point they're trying to make, they just don't include it, since that would cloud their point. Only by reading both groups, as well as a wide variety of "neutral" (for lack of a better word) websites, can you get a true picture of their lives and beliefs.

d313t3d, I don't know what to say to your comments, except that my experiences have been different. I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one, because my personal experiences just don't match what your statements. Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, or perhaps it's a difference between our communities. As I said before, with the exception of one family, most of my athiest friends like to scream like crazy when they disagree with a school policy. During conversations wth them after the fact, they said that they just like to see what they can get awaya with. But the majority of my Christian friends just quietly move their kids to another school or take them home to learn.

First off having 3 children the eldest with a Master, one in High School, and another in grade school. None of them were ever forced to do anything I as their father and their mother also could object to any class group activity. The word God in and of itself denotes only a general generic stating of a higher being those wishing to state it should be able to and if this stating offends you then do not impose upon me the right of my children to say it. Life is not fair and as such not everything can or ever will be to our 100% approval. But as a society we attempt in this country to lets all have what they believe. My god is not your god or even a lack of it. It is a generic term meant for each person that says it to believe or not but as one nation we must stand under the languages and beliefs of the many people that make up this land. Faith is what you make of it, if one believes so much in nothing then what is the point to promote nothing? Nothing has no value, culturally, morally, or etheically nothing is that nothing.

allah Jehova, God, are the same being! the founders of this country where persecuted christians, devote! we simply cannot seperate the two... to say that they used the word God as a genreic term is untrue!!!

"God, Jehova, Allah, Buddha, talks to all people in there own language"
Dr. Martin Luther King jr

Simply put the word God is what you believe or do not. If one takes time to study both curtural and languages differences the concept is always the same an all knowing being a higher power and knowledge. Lets say for the sake of debate then one is a God where would you plant all your wisdom, if it is on the earth then I'd opt in for give your ways into the language and culture of all the people, no one is 100% right and then no one is wrong. A god would be smart spread what their about over many people and cultutures as a mortal then my task to know or not know this being would be to accept all interpatations not bound with my concept taught or learned but just accept that is the way it is.

Here's my main problem with the whole shebang: The United States is supposed to be a melting pot of beliefs, cultures, races, etc. Even if nearly all religions can be said to believe in the same God, why should those in the religious minority bend their belief system to accomodate the majority? You're asking them to set aside their beliefs when they refer to themselves as American, or set aside their Americanism when they refer to their beliefs. This point is extremely important to me as an atheist and a patriot (perhaps a dying breed, but I digress...). I love this country, but I hate the notion that it has become so religiously exclusive that I might not belong to this country because of my beliefs. Am I only an American for activities that don't involve religious overtones? If I say the Pledge alongside my fellow Americans, but I'm the only one who leaves out the 'Under God', I would feel very isolated. (If you say 'That's because you're a godless heathen,' I'm gonna smack you.) :D

I've been willing to tolerate certain inconsistencies for some time (yes, 'In God We Trust' on money is bothersome for me). But I shouldn't have to tolerate them at all. Removing 'Under God' from the pledge offends some people, because they feel that their beliefs are no longer being endorsed by the country they love. Leaving it in offends people because they feel that their beliefs are not even recognized by the country they love. You tell me which is worse.

Personally, I feel that it is much better that the United States not endorse any religion than to (even symbolically) support many, but not all. For those of you who say "It's not about religion, it's about tradition." I hate to tell you this, but the tradition was founded on religion. That you support it now "because of tradition" only further insults those who are just as American as you are, and simply believe something different.

I can't stress this enough: Your religious beliefs are not, and can not be what makes you American.

The country was founded by people escaping religious percecution, not atheists. I don't necessarily believe in God, but I respect our heritage, about where we came from. This nation was built on the belief that people should be free to practice whatever religion they choose. This became the basis to all other freedoms for this country. Whether you believe in God, or not, you owe a little respect for those who gave you the freedom which you take for granted.

This country was founded by people escaping religious percecution, and it DOES state in the constitution that we have a freedom of religion. However, we continually tend to discriminate against nonChristians. The Jews, the Muslims, the others too numerous to mention, as well as the athiests and diests, are all discriminated against. You walk into a room, or join in a coversation, and it is about religion, and you inform people, well I'm not Christian, I am Muslim (Jew, Buddhist, etc), and you get THE LOOK. Then you are either ignored, or treated like some exotic creature.
We are a majority of Christians, and we don't fully understand the other religions, so we look down on them. We were all prepared in WWII to help the Jews escape, and most of the people back then were, well, why do they not hide that they are Jews, or convert to Christianity? They have the same pride in their beliefs as Christians and other religions do in theirs.
Now, in these recent days, we have come to associate Muslims with terrorists. Anyone who is a Muslim has to be a terrorist, right? Wrong. Do not blame a whole religion on one single group's activities.
I am not Muslim, nor am I a Jew. I believe there is SOMETHING out there, just not sure WHAT. But don't I have that right?