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Sorry you got negged... As for your answer to my question you are a much bigger person than I am... there is no way on God's Green Earth I would let someone hurt my family if I could stop it by killing the person or persons who were commiting the crime...
As for the Embryo, Fetus, Etc... An embryo can not sustain it's own life outside the womb... And a fetus can not do so before the 7th month... sometimes the 6th with little case of survival... The point is that until a fetus can suvive outside of the womb it is in all practical terms a parasitic organism... It survives by feeding off of a host organism... Wouldn't you say that it is better that the waste products (for lack of a better term) are used to save a life then just being burned in an incinerator? The way it sits right now abortion is legal... Is that right or wrong? I am not even going to get into that one... but as I see it if the stem cells from evn one abortion can help a child with MS then it is worth it...
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Eee...This is just going to go back and forth more than it has too. We all have differing opinions. Lets leave it at that.
If anything else, why not agree to just disagree :cool:
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Very good sugestion Green Bird!!! :D
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I am an athiest. Lets say just for the sake of argument that there is a God. And lets say that an embryo is a life. And once again say that creating it for infertile couples is irresponsible. I can see where religious people come from on all of the above issues. Now lets talk about playing god, specifically scientists with regards to embryos. Someone has to. Where is God? Where was he when I was seven and my mom lost her mind and attempted suicide when my dad left her? Where was he when my dad married a bulemic headcase who beat me sensless on a daily basis for 6 years? Where was he when my teachers looked around the bruises bought the shallow excuses? What has he done for me lately? Now I'm not saying he is responsible for this. I dont even beleive he exists. PEOPLE did things to me, and I accept that. Stuff happens. God didn't kill anyone, he doesnt exist. RELIGIOUS people kill people in HIS NAME. How dare you try to compare bodycounts with science, how many lives has religion saved? How many plagues has it ended? how many wounds has it healed? more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reasons, and since you're so up on life prevention being murder, then we can consider all their potential decendants amoung the casualties. now i dont pretend to say that science has never killed anyone or that religion has never saved a life, i am not so ignorant. I know science is not infalible, those who say otherwise are just as dangerous as those who deny science completely. I know religion is not all bad, it certainly has its place. That being said, its place is not science. it offends me to no end when i hear a doctor or other scientist say that some phenomenon "cant be explained by science". There is no such thing. Anything can be explained by science. thats what science is, rules for explaining stuff. there are only things that HAVE NOT YET BEEN explained by science. A scientist who takes the god route is just plain lazy and should be fired. you want scientific evidence there is no god? here it is: RELIGION. religion is the best proof of the nonexistence of god. no god would allow people to masquerade as prophets to rape and pillage a primitive people in his name. no BENEVOLENT one, anyway. and no god would let his followers hinder the progress of medicine with regards to such horrible diseases as can be prevented with stem cell research.
I'm done now, NEG away.
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Just one point here. I have enjoyed reading the alternating views. However I must point out that I too would not stand back and let someone threaten or harm my family when it was within my power to do so. Also, if in 1944 or so I had the chance to kill Hitler I would have done it in a minute, with a clear conscience and with thanks to God that I had that chance. Same for Stalin. There is a big difference between killing a monster or a madman or even someone who has chosen to do violence over killing an innocent. There is a big difference between defending yourself and your loved ones over seeking out and killing people who you consider might potentially be a threat. This in no way is to say that the Stem Cell Research originally discussed here is the latter. It merely points out that understanding that there are times when lethal force is acceptable and times when it is not should not be confused just for the sake of an argument which happens to involve a disagreement on whether the method is killing or not.
This goes for the "you've killed all their possible progeny" statement too. If someone uses this as an argment it should be pointed out. However, if it is used to try to show that those of us believing abortion is wrong are just out on the edge crazy then it hyperbole which I have never ascribed to.
I would argue that killing a criminal in self defense in no way compares to killing a child. Whether you believe the embryo is a child or not, is alive or not, does not affect my belief that it is (just as my belief does not affect yours I am sure :cool: ).
Also you have mentioned that if one of us were affected you would want to know if we would change our minds? In many cases you may be right. You may even be right in my case but I doubt it. I would certainly want the results of the research but I do not think I would change my attitude on the method. It would be even harder if it were my wife who was affected. Disease is a rampant killer and maimer and when it threatens those you love the desire to attack back is even greater than when it threatens those you don't know. Having lost friends and loved ones to disease I know how it affected me. Again, though, while I hope they can find methods to further the research effectively without violating what I consider to be ethical practices. While I hope the current research is effective beyond our wildest dreams. If they do use what I consider unethical practices then I cannot support those methods.
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Wow, I enjoy debating more than I thought. Anyway, back to the subject.
Lets say that you are an embryo. Would you like your life to be taken away for the sake of someone else's? And as for the parasitic organism, you could call an embryo that if it weren't for the fact that it hasn't full matured. And when it does, it's a person! Therefor, its an underdeveloped human.
As for you, mr. x acidreign x , the proud athiest, who the hell do you think put you here? The lady next door?
Silentstalker
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Ahhh... Lets try to keep these post civil Silent stalker^_^
People will believe what they want to believe. It's their right to do so.
Lets just keep that in perspective.
Take care
::Chelle::
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Quote:
Originally posted here by x acidreign x
I am an athiest. Lets say just for the sake of argument that there is a God. And lets say that an embryo is a life. And once again say that creating it for infertile couples is irresponsible. I can see where religious people come from on all of the above issues. Now lets talk about playing god, specifically scientists with regards to embryos. Someone has to. Where is God? Where was he when I was seven and my mom lost her mind and attempted suicide when my dad left her? Where was he when my dad married a bulemic headcase who beat me sensless on a daily basis for 6 years? Where was he when my teachers looked around the bruises bought the shallow excuses? What has he done for me lately? Now I'm not saying he is responsible for this. I dont even beleive he exists. PEOPLE did things to me, and I accept that. Stuff happens. God didn't kill anyone, he doesnt exist. RELIGIOUS people kill people in HIS NAME. How dare you try to compare bodycounts with science, how many lives has religion saved? How many plagues has it ended? how many wounds has it healed? more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reasons, and since you're so up on life prevention being murder, then we can consider all their potential decendants amoung the casualties. now i dont pretend to say that science has never killed anyone or that religion has never saved a life, i am not so ignorant. I know science is not infalible, those who say otherwise are just as dangerous as those who deny science completely. I know religion is not all bad, it certainly has its place. That being said, its place is not science. it offends me to no end when i hear a doctor or other scientist say that some phenomenon "cant be explained by science". There is no such thing. Anything can be explained by science. thats what science is, rules for explaining stuff. there are only things that HAVE NOT YET BEEN explained by science. A scientist who takes the god route is just plain lazy and should be fired. you want scientific evidence there is no god? here it is: RELIGION. religion is the best proof of the nonexistence of god. no god would allow people to masquerade as prophets to rape and pillage a primitive people in his name. no BENEVOLENT one, anyway. and no god would let his followers hinder the progress of medicine with regards to such horrible diseases as can be prevented with stem cell research.
I'm done now, NEG away.
Hi,
I am sorry that you have had a hard life. But would you really want a world where God takes away our freedom and makes us into robots who can only do what they are programmed to do? We have freedom to do good or evil. Some people abuse that freedom. That is a plain fact. But God made us with the freedom to choose good or evil. He took that risk because it is important to him that people follow Him and love Him of their own will. Read the first few chapters of the Bible sometime. It tells the story.
Also, it seems you want a God who runs the world the way you want it run. It really doesn't work like that. I'm am sorry for the suffering you have endured. But don't let it drive you away from God. You will never find the joy and peace you desire apart from Him. Many people seem to want a kind of contract with God: "Take care of me and give me what I want, and I will follow you." God doesn't work like that. He wants us to love Him and follow him for who He is, and not what He does for us or what He can give us. The world does not revolve around us; it revolves around God. We will only find the joy we seek in life if we seek our joy in God.
So, back to stem cell research. A "God centered" approach to moral decision making will not allow me to say, "Whatever science wants to do is ok, as long as it has some benefits." Just because something is legal, does not mean it is moral. We (humans beings) and our desires are not the measuring stick of morality. The will of God is. T
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Very nicely said, Preacherman. In life we turn to God for many things, and he answers them, many times in a way that as humans we think is not correct. But in the end, God loves us and wants the best for us, but let opinions be opinions.
Silentstalker
[email protected]
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The thing I think a lot of you are overlooking is that these embryos aren't growing inside of somebody,they can no longer be used to impregnate a woman because they've been sitting in a freezer for too long.It's a matter of do we throw these embryos in a medical waste container and later burn them or use them for stem cell research.What's really the immoral choice here?What would God really rather us do?Do you think he would rather tham burn or be used to save lives?
