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no thats not true auntie, although i back any action we may take with iraq, i defend anyones right to speakout against it. Act against it is something else, but freedom of speach must be preserved. what if we take a wrong turn in our actions, are we still supposed to support them in speech. We all must speak out against what we believe to be wrong.
I think that maybe I was misuderstood... I did not mean that one should not speak out if they so desire... What I meant was that one should supprot the men and women fighting FOR THEM... If you disagree with the war that is fine... Don't sign up... Don't go... And if you are already in and have to go don't shoot at the little people... But if you aren't willing to put your butt on the line and get in the sand and dirt with the rest of us (by that I mean those who are or have served) then please show your support of the fighting men and women and do not disrespect them for having the courage to do what you do not...Quote:
/me looks around to see if he's still in America, not a middle-eastern theocracy
your right about that 4mh, it would be wrong to have our service men involved in this conflict treated like those who served in nam... hated for serving their country, by anyone. lets keep in mind though that we've given up too many rights already to even think about censoring free speach in any way shape or form. If someone is against our actions speak out against those in power and don't knock those who have too carry out their decissions. not that anyone is yet.
im with you all the way on this bud, our soldiers are about to risk their lives for what we believe in (the majority of us) and we should be behind them 100%. i know i am.
Midgetmen, they are not fighting for me, they're fighting for big oil companies under the guise of Patriotism. I'm neither asking nor want them to go. Just look at the adminstrations track record. Cheney was trading with Iraq while the sanctions were in effect when he was running Haliburton, Bush,well his daddy runs a company called the Carlyle Group, who stands to make a ton of money from any kind of war, anywhere! Let's take a look at Condi Rice shall we? Hmm.. she's been a board member at Chevron. They even have an oil tanker named after her. I won't even touch Mr. Powell.Quote:
Originally posted here by 4MidgetHitmen
I think that maybe I was misuderstood... I did not mean that one should not speak out if they so desire... What I meant was that one should supprot the men and women fighting FOR THEM...
I do disagree, I'm not signing up, I'm not going. This war isn't about "weapons of mass destruction", the adminstration has turned this two bit idiot into the boogeyman! It makes getting people's consent that much more easier.Quote:
If you disagree with the war that is fine... Don't sign up... Don't go... And if you are already in and have to go don't shoot at the little people...
This last part pissed me off, you don't know me Midget, or know anything about me. So please dont flame me.Quote:
But if you aren't willing to put your butt on the line and get in the sand and dirt with the rest of us (by that I mean those who are or have served) then please show your support of the fighting men and women and do not disrespect them for having the courage to do what you do not... [/B]
On a side note, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're a Republican, maybe you should tell them how to respect Veterans rather than me....
Entire article hereQuote:
One poignant photo said it all: Georgia's defeated Democratic senator, Max Cleland, sitting in a wheelchair, missing both legs and an arm lost in combat in Vietnam. This highly decorated hero was defeated by a Vietnam war draft-dodger who had the audacity to accuse Cleland of being "unpatriotic" after the senator courageously voted against giving Bush unlimited war-related powers. I do not recall a more shameful moment in American politics.
Let me clarify my thoughts. I lived during world war two and saw Hitler over run Europe because people wanted to appease him out of fear or they were blinded and swayed by his power of speech Everyone knows what happened. I truly think Saddam is similar , he is being given time to hide his weapons and at some point he may sell them to someone much more unstable than he is. This may be in part about oil. They certainly have a virtual monpoly on it. But it is also about a leader with a bloody past.He cares nothing obviously about his people and has killed and tortured many in his rise to power (even relatives). I sat with an engineer from Kuwait at a Muslim gathering ( I am not muslim) he was in the Gulf war. He said ,Saddam is well known by his people for his ability to torture and maim. He also has hand picked guards who know how to act and they are well trained Most of the population keep their mouths shut for fear of death or reprisal to their families. Many of them don't have enough to eat He (Saddam) has bunrkers well equiped with every imaginable item for survival. What path would you follow as a leader if you knew all of this?. Sit back and pretend it didn't exist or at some point do you fight because terrorism is now invading the streets of your country and might eventually put your poeple in greater and greater danger. As for speaking out, many of our rights and priviliges have ben limiited. God only know where this trend will lead especially for those of you who will be the future of the world. I lived in a time where we were truly very individual and had very few limits such as now are being put upon us. But this too is a two edged sword . How then do you stop the terrorists.? You have to change things out of neccesity.As for people not going that is a matter for an individual to decide. I will say one thing though if my son and grandson are there and they are both in the service now, I will damned sure support and respect them for I love them I think a country divided and bickering stands a very poor chance of winning if and war does come. That is my opinion Auntie
Awesome :thumbsup:
I have to disagree with you on this one... When I was in the 80's I fought and bleed to keep our country free from communism... Those who serve today are not fighting for big oil companies out of a misguided sense of patriotism... They are willing to fight so you can say what you want and when...Quote:
Midgetmen, they are not fighting for me, they're fighting for big oil companies under the guise of Patriotism
Again I disagree with you this administration hasn't turned him into the boogyman he did that all by himself... He did that in the 90's when he invaded Kuwait... He did that when he used Chemical a biological weapons on the Kurds... This administartion is only trying to finish what the UN didn't have the balls to do the first time...Quote:
I do disagree, I'm not signing up, I'm not going. This war isn't about "weapons of mass destruction", the adminstration has turned this two bit idiot into the boogeyman! It makes getting people's consent that much more easier.
Quote:
But if you aren't willing to put your butt on the line and get in the sand and dirt with the rest of us (by that I mean those who are or have served) then please show your support of the fighting men and women and do not disrespect them for having the courage to do what you do not... [/B]
Wasn't meant as a flame dude sorry you took it that way... But you are right I don't know you or anything about you... It was just one old soldiers way of saying if you like being able to do your own thing at least respect those that allow you to live your life as you see fit... And it sure as heel isn't any politician that does that for you...Quote:
This last part pissed me off, you don't know me Midget, or know anything about me. So please dont flame me.
You're right I am a republican... And what was said about Max Cleland was a disgrace that any vetran would be pised off about... That's not any better then a draft dodger sitting in the White House for 8 years and lying under oath and not knowing what "is" is...Quote:
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're a Republican, maybe you should tell them how to respect Veterans rather than me....
hey thanks alot for downing my compliment to "auntie". who made you forum editor?
Sweet Lissa,
one liners are really not appreciated. In your case, you made a ONE word post, that's probably why you got negged.
Midget,
I never meant to diss service people, only the politicians who send them to war without having ever been in one. And I can say what I want and when because of the Constitution, this is not a " which came first, the chicken or the egg" debate. The Constitution does not derive it's strength from the military.Quote:
...They are willing to fight so you can say what you want and when...
April Glaspie, US ambassador to Iraq 8 days before Iraq invaded Kuwait, in a coversation withQuote:
He did that in the 90's when he invaded Kuwait... He did that when he used Chemical a biological weapons on the Kurds... This administartion is only trying to finish what the UN didn't have the balls to do the first time...
Saddam had this to say, "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts," the transcript reports Glaspie saying, "such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction ... that Kuwait is not associated with America ."
As for the gassing of the Kurds, he did that under our noses, why didnt you stand up back then and say, "Hey this guy's a lunatic!". Oh thats right...he was fighting the Iranians and we were signing up loan guarantee after guarantee to him.
You seem to presume that I care about Clinton and that I'm a Democrat, I'm not. I think he should've been impeached for perjury.Quote:
That's not any better then a draft dodger sitting in the White House for 8 years and lying under oath and not knowing what "is" is...
Bush Jr is a draft-dodger too as I pointed it out to you here sometime ago.
Anyways, it seems its only you and me interested in debating, we can take this to PM if you like :D
Why wouldnt they be appreciated? I am sure Auntie appreciated it.. Figured less to read..ok what exactly is the difference if I posted a one word comment, or 2 paragraph post on how great her comment was? Please I am new here and I am not trying to be a jerk, but these are serious questions I really would like to know about.
Sorry, got carried away for a moment..lol..
I dont want this country to go to war with anyone, but if we have to, then need be. We won't be able to stop it. And I would also like to add that I fully support our troops for their bravery, whether in war or not. They enlist knowing what could be around the corner..... It's just that our country should have grabbed Saddam the last time we were over there. what happened because we backed off? Bought him more time to accumulate weapons and support. This time, I have a strong feeling, will not be as simple and painless as last time we went there, which in my opinion, will be coming very soon..