Welcome to Jupman

Welcome Gus!

I'm glad to see you survive your "trial-by-fire" as it were. I believe that many of the members here are a fun sort and do mean well (at least most do). I am glad to see so many members are saying that they will remain for a while before making a decision. I think that many who are doing the nay-saying are making assumptions before they have seen what JupiterMedia will offer to the community. I understand why some of the services (downloads) and such are being removed, although a part of me is sad to see those go as they do offer the administrator an idea as to what tools some attackers use.

That said, I'm pleased to hear that there might be a conference and would be interested in hearing more about it. I also understand that the AO Newsletter will remain the same (maybe more articles from members?? :) -- I can only dream! *heh*).

I know I will be staying. I think there is a great deal of knowledge with our members and hope that our members continue to offer many of the excellent tutorials and questions that often come from here.

Best of luck JP on your next endeavour and welcome Jupman. ;)

Umm, sorry, but i didnt know that they will be removing the downloads area....

What else. I came here in december 2002, and since then this place has become like home to me. I have learned a great deal here, and one of the reasons why i really love it here is, because AO is the way it is. If all the changes are going to take place that are being discussed without the voice of the AO members, thats not good at all. We dont need a boss, or a leader. Its us, the members that keep this community going. What we really dont need is someone in charge to come here and change things. I agree with the fact that we sure will benefit from things that Jupitermedia will provide us with in many ways, but STOP taking away things that have become a part of AO. If it goes on like this, then we will not even be able to post what we want. What JP has created here is one of a kind. Dont let that go to waste. If all that Jupitermedia wants is our users and our knowledge, then let them create something that would attract it/us. But dont mess up the existing AO. I was very proud to possess the instronics.antionline.org that was linked to a site ive been making over the past 5 months. I have learned alot about security thanks to the download section (see my post on "Attack Scenarious".) The IRC has saved me many times when i needed real help in situations that could not wait to be answered via mailes, or threads. AO is like open source, theres no profit involved in it. If now its gonna be a company buisiness policy running things, well then screw that. Keep AO alive the way its meant to be. A FREE flow of information without the buisiness world to interfeer with it. Im sure that many real hackers lurk here within us. They are essential to keep security information upto date and flowing in and out. As far as I see, Jupitermedia is a large and succesful company. That means company buisiness rules and policies. That is not what AO is all about. This will be my last post regarding these kinds of issues, until i know that what WE want is heard and respected. AO is for us, and not for a company who wants to make $$$$ out of it.

Bye now.

Gus et al,

Firstly, Welcome.

I feel this horrible urge to stick my nose in here...... I can't help it, it's my nature...... ;)

Without intention of appearing offensive:

I would like to point out that what you have actually purchased is us - The group of security professionals, IT professionals and all the other interested parties and home users that need information. JP provided a forum for us to come together and while it is not perfect for everyone all the time it has proved to be a format within which we can all come together and accept. Without that "acceptable" format JP would have failed and you would have had nothing to purchase in the first place. It would do you well to remember that you have no more control over your overall purchase than you have over any individual that visits here because it is the individuals, or lack of, that will determine your profits - without us the profits will disappear and your capital investment will go with it. It may be in your best interest to use the member base as a "sounding board" before you make changes. Clearly there will be things that you _must_ do as a business to ensure both the continuation of this site and to make fair profit. But some of those things will only serve to peeve a proportion of the members. However, there may be "negotiable" points that the members give this or that in return for you giving the other.

I look forward to continuing to be a member of a well run, somewhat odd but always informative, often serious but sometimes rather humorous, freewheeling, home-like community that I have become used to in my short time here.

You have purchased a wonderful resource here - don't fritter _us_ away!

Hello All,
Welcome Jupman and Gus! This is MHO but I could not agree more with Tiger_Shark and Gore. IMO you should leave the forums the way that they are. This is MHO but gus/jupman, you need to remember that security/IT/programmers are normally a fringe bunch who lack, sometimes, a proper voice in regular (irregular) social theaters. To take away the general chit chat, cosmos or IRC, would rob many of us here from contributing to the community that has been built. I think of AO as a university and each forum as a classroom. If you take away chit-chat and just stick to security issues you will have a situation where newbies like myself may get turned off. I am here to learn and have done so. I have found many of the topics brought up in other forums to be enriching and essential to a beneficial education here. I came here for security concerns and I found a vibrant bustling multi-faceted community. To change that would a shame.
The return on your capital advancement, as Tiger_shark so carefully pointed out, is your primary concern. If you insist on implementing changes that the community does not support you do so at your own peril. Already sites like AO are springing up in anticipation. The choice is yours. Again, welcome and good luck!


Cheers

Captfb

We realize what we've bought is a community site, so don't worry, we intend to keep it strong. And you do that by making it a great place to learn and to solve problems. Everything we will do is intended to strengthen those qualities.

We realize the value of the AP system but also know of the flaws; JP has told us of some problems and I've read other's opinions here. We're trying to figure out the best thing to do for the community overall. If the site's discussion dropped to a lower level of quality, that is obviously not a good thing.

I didn't say we are removing the downloads. We have to look at how they work and may need to tinker with the implementation but they sound like something that should be maintained and, if possible, improved upon.

The only thing we are sure we can't continue is the chat server and the free email (which isn't actually provided by Antinonline itself; it was offered by a third-party who did it in exchange for the ads they send to users). The domain name sharing is something that weakens the site's overall performance, and opens us up to legal problems (if someone abuses the privilege, the site's name is on the line and we could be sued).

We have a lot to understand here so don't assume the worst. I was trying to make the point that the message boards are foremost -- and right off the bat, I see the speed of the message boards as a problem that needs to be fixed. I know I find it too slow. I think it's a testament to how strong the community is that they've kept coming here even as the pages take so long to load.

We also want to add more articles that are along the lines of what Ms Mittens has been doing with the newsletter. Offline, we've been trying to get in touch with Ms Mittens to see what can be done there.

I should point out that I'm not the person who will be running the site on a daily basis. We are looking to bring in a team of people who be keeping things running smoothly. I'm responsbile for all of Jupitermedia's content (including more than a dozen other community sites). I came on just to give you an overview of the company who is taking over the site and to let you know we are working behind the scenes to ensure the site's longterm health.

- JupMan

My apologies if i sounded harsh in any ways. I guess its just the sound of the word "change" in general. I also guess that i made my own conclusions to quick, and mainly out of line. I must learn to be more patient. Im sure that what you want todo is not a bad thing. Also there is way too much gossip going around which does have to stop. Like i said earlier on, i love this place here, and i want it to stay a great place. Time will tell and we shall all see the results of this "change". Best of luck to you.

Cheers.

sorry if i missed this somewhere, but my big question is: what is going to happen to the current moderators? will negative, ennis, and so on still be heading up the various forums?

and will MsMittens still be allowed to carry on with the news letter?

We hope all of the moderators will stay. They are certainly going to be encouraged.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to reach them all. We have been trying, though.

Jupman: There might be a reason why there is "no easy way to reach them all" after all this is a security site and part of security on the net is only allowing as much information about yourself to be available out there as you feel comfortable with...... ;)

As you can see..... This could quite well be a stranger bunch of adolescents than you might be used to dealing with..... But keep plugging away..... We're really rather lovable when you get to know us..... At least, we're lovable in the digital form...... I wouldn't necessarily say we were all lovable in person.... :D

JupMan> Both MsMittens and Negative hang out in IRC (see its not that bad of a place). As far as Terr and Ennis, well, they may be a little more difficult. But it shouldn't be to hard.

As for the rest of the site... people, there is the site suggestion thread. Its there for a reason. Maybe right now would be a good time to use it. Talk about things that you want to see change or stay the same. Everyone gets scared that this site is going to go down hill.. Jupiter Media spent WAYYYY to much money on this site to let it go astray. They are going to listen to the request of the users and implement what they can (as long as it is cost effective). Things like IRC can be expensive, especially if you start getting a lot of users and things like the bot floods that happen on occassion... and it can also deteriorate the bandwidth of the rest of the site. Although I like the IRC, I can live without it... its not like we don't have other servers to go to.