OMG! Its perfectly legal in my mind. In a sense it's a security system for your computer. And basicly does the same thing that a security system does for your house! There is no reason for it to be illegal unless you use it in that way.
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OMG! Its perfectly legal in my mind. In a sense it's a security system for your computer. And basicly does the same thing that a security system does for your house! There is no reason for it to be illegal unless you use it in that way.
Basically, it all boils down to owning up to your actions. If you get caught attempting to hack/crack someone else's system, end of story...done. No whining, complaining, making excuses. As far as violating a hacker/crackers rights or "stalking" them? Everyone assumes that they are the exception to the rules. Bullshit. If I find someone attempting to rob my house, not only will I follow him home, but I will also kick his ass in his front yard.
As a network administrator, alot of my energy is spent on security issues. This is because there are those out there who believe that if you don't lock something up - tight - then it's an implied invitation. I firmly believe that if I create something - a file, program, whatever- it belongs to me. We all know right from wrong, we are just trying to ignore that fact and citing technicalities in order to do so.
bballad - All I can say is things are sure a lot different in Illinois than they are in the NorthWest!! Out here, not only will the cop ticket you (with or without his lights on!) but you will be charged a fee to ENTER the courtroom and the Judge will ignore the reason for the traffic citation - telling you you're guilty before you can even enter your plea! I don't agree with your analogy re: "If a cop offers you drugs/sex and you accept its not entrapment" . . . If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . Excuse me, but why isn't that cop or government agent out arresting the murders, rapists, burglars, child molesters, etc. that are still at large? Are things so slow that millions of tax dollars need to be spent setting up elaborate 'sting operations' just to entrap individuals who might otherwise NOT have stepped that far over the line? I just have to think that when you threaten private individuals into believing they and their family are at risk from Mafia retaliation . . . UNLESS they DO cooperate in your illegal endeavor . . . you've gone a bit too far (True case)! (I really need to quit watching CourtTV!!)
MsMittens - I believe that unless the government actually knows what it's talking about . . . it should keep its nose out of cyberspace for now. Script kiddies who have nothing better to do with their time than create destructive virii and the like or break into someone elses system . . . because it's there - deserve to have their toys taken away, get stuck in a honeypot for a few days (tying up their resources for a change) and/or be made to reimburse those they have harmed. I'm tired of seeing my tax dollars being funnelled into an educational/governmental system which continues to breed more and more irresponsible individuals . . . whether newbie hackers out for a thrill or idiot politicians who create million dollar committees that accomplish nothing. Just look at the great job the US government did in deregulating the transportation industry . . . IT STILL hasn't recovered. I realize you are playing "Devil's Advocate" but thinking "One bad case and those laws will be removed" is a bit naive . . I would wager that Canada has just as many obsolete laws still on the books, as the US has.
Todays society has little to NO moral/ethical standards. It seems few individuals are willing to accept responsibility for their actions and prefer to place the blame on their rotten childhood, poor environment or the fact that Mommy and Daddy didn't get them that BMW convertible they wanted for their 16th birthday. Doesn't anyone believe in the "Golden Rule" anymore? How about plain old fashioned consideration? There will always be someone trying to make an easy buck and to heck with the consequences . . . Government agencies will continue playing "Big Brother" and it will still take the "Powers That Be" way too long to get it right! Change can begin only when individuals are held accountable for their actions and accept responsiblity . . . If that means slowing their bandwidth, getting them kicked from their ISP or, heaven forbid, their making restitution for the millions and millions of dollars in damages they caused AND I can help that become a reality . . . I'm all for it. I became a member of AntiOnline BECAUSE I want to be part of the solution . . . rather than a victim of the problem. What we NEED is to ensure instructors spend MORE time teaching students to be responsible PC users and LESS time learning how to write destructive scripts or programs. We need parents who supervise and restrict their kids activities on the Internet, rather than turning a blind eye because it's easy, they're too busy, don't care or are computer illiterate themselves. We need communities who've realized that adults, the elderly, the disabled and the poor, could benefit from computer classes, donations of discarded/outdated systems, software or hardware and volunteer mentoring just as much, if not more, than children can. Sorry to vent but that's my 2 cents worth.
Little Mama - I couldn't agree with you more! I'd love to introduce you to a certain person I know in Oregon . . . you guys could kick ass together!! (I might even join you.) I know I got a bit carried away but I can't help wishing I lived in a town where I didn't have to lock my doors or windows, a world where I didn't have to spend all my time researching new security measures, the latest 'bug' or downloading fixes, patches, hardware, software, security and/or virus updates, management personnel appreciated employees wanting to grow with the company, who took pride in doing a good job and where businesses actually produced quality merchandise that was worth what you paid for it. And, before you ask, NO . . . I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
V.
also the government does this all the time in catching criminals its called a stingQuote:
Originally posted here by Darksnake
First off if the "hackers" werent snooping around your machine's then they and you wouldnt be in court. I highly doubt a judge will rule in their favor if you can prove they were unlawfully snooping around and got caught. Personally I think its a bunch of **** but thats just me. I mean if you catch someone snooping around outside your house can he sue you for making your house a tempting target to him as a burglar? not only no but hell no! Our laws are just a bunch of **** when it comes to computers.
when they pose as prostitutes or poor old ladies and even drug dealers to entice or entrap a would be criminal lol
i think the whole argument is a joke
Umm you seem to have missed the point of my statement...the only people who can commite entrapment is a goverment agent/cop. In saying that the entrapment laws are very complex..Police can go under cover/run stings. What they can't do is entice you to commit a crime that you would normaly commit. If he offers to see you drugs and you buy not entrapment. If he forces you to do drugs/commit a crime then it is entrapment. As long as you commit a crime of your own free will its not entrapment...Quote:
Originally posted here by vvirtho
bballad - All I can say is things are sure a lot different in Illinois than they are in the NorthWest!! Out here, not only will the cop ticket you (with or without his lights on!) but you will be charged a fee to ENTER the courtroom and the Judge will ignore the reason for the traffic citation - telling you you're guilty before you can even enter your plea! I don't agree with your analogy re: "If a cop offers you drugs/sex and you accept its not entrapment" . . . If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . Excuse me, but why isn't that cop or government agent out arresting the murders, rapists, burglars, child molesters, etc. that are still at large? Are things so slow that millions of tax dollars need to be spent setting up elaborate 'sting operations' just to entrap individuals who might otherwise NOT have stepped that far over the line? I just have to think that when you threaten private individuals into believing they and their family are at risk from Mafia retaliation . . . UNLESS they DO cooperate in your illegal endeavor . . . you've gone a bit too far (True case)! (I really need to quit watching CourtTV!
If you plane on breaking laws, be smart about it and know all the laws that can affect you, its the only way not to get caught..if you are dealing/buying drugs, or are involved in prostitiution and you expect the question are you a cop to protect you then you are in for a long stay in jail.
I didn't miss your point . . . I know what you said . . . I just don't happen to agree with you. The sting operation I mentioned was carried out by the FBI and featured on a program shown on the CourtTV cable channel. The FBI agents involved were undercover (of course) and when one private citizen balked at joining in with their planned crime, the agents convinced him they were "in bed" with the Mob and if he DIDN'T get with the plan . . . his family might end up 'swimming with the fishies"! That's entrapment but Mr. Citizen still wound up in prison! MY POINT was . . . instead of wasting tax dollars trying to get someone to commit a crime . . . how about going after some of the criminal element still at large?! Enough said.
V.
Here two URLs about Canadian Criminal Code laws that can apply on the subject.
PART VI: INVASION OF PRIVACY
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/41049.html
PART IX: OFFENCES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/41558.html
I used to study this two laws to know the legality of wardriving. From the understanding I got, the communication between a hacker and a computer I own is not private and I can do what I see fit. To be fully protected by the law, I must put a banner to beware a intruder to not trespassing and telling him that the system is under surveillance.
How can a computer (honeypot) be a trap :confused: Nowhere a sign telling hackers, I'm a victim, please hack me!
If logging someone's movements about your honeypot is illegal, should I be concerned about tracking a web user's browsing habits on my apache server?
Also, what if I log a hacker's movements on a production server? Is this illegal? Does the illegality only come into play because a honeypot has no business-related value?
This is just plain dumb. In my mind, if someone exploits a service running on a honeypot or a production server, they are breaking in and should be subject to the same laws that one would apply to video surveilance.
I agree, but I'm not too knowledgeable of the laws in place for this type of monitoring. It may be a good idea to check your state laws relating to monitoring internet activity. :confused:
Browsing this thread brings up a relatively old story that I heard about a while ago. Where some cat burgler landed on a knife in someone's kitchen, cut up their foot pretty good, and then sued. Shockingly, I believe the burgler one, claiming that the knife being left on the counter created an unnecessary risk.
Is it just me, or is this honey pot issue eerily similar?
--PhirePhreak