How a tax cut works

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So just where are these WMDs that Saddam was threatening me and my fellow countrymen with?

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First of all, I never made mention of Saddam. Look, Saddam was a murderous leader who systematically raped women and children. We also know he used WMD in the past against both Iran and the people of Iraq. If you want to defend his right to exist as a leader in the world we live in today, then that's your problem, not mine! What self-respecting human being would leave someone like that in power to terrorize innocent people? Where was the UN during all these years, why did they allow him to continue? Why did no one else step to the plate to help the Iraqi people? Where is the humanity in allowing him to do this throughout these years? Those questions are far more important to me rather than, "where are the WMD's we all know as fact this brutal Dictator used the past on his people and others". But that's my personal opinion on the matter rather than me making a comment on policy.


If you want to know why we haven't found any WMD then you need to check with the CIA. That's where the failure took place here (that's not to say any WMD won't be found). David Kay said the intelligence community owed Bush an apology and that Bush told him to find the "facts" and that he wasn't pressured in any way to fabricate the Iraqi WMD findings.

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I actually feel more threatened by the dictators the Republicans have propped up

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That's just an asinine statement. You don't just toss the word Dictator around like that, careless far-left rhetoric at best...

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Anyway you look at it Halliburton's profit loss sheet isn't worth the lives of any more US servicemen or women.

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The usual, the Dem's constantly looking for dirt on the Pres and Vice Pres. Nothing but rhetoric, nothing tangible.

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Originally posted here by dublix
First of all, I never made mention of Saddam. Look, Saddam was a murderous leader who systematically raped women and children. We also know he used WMD in the past against both Iran and the people of Iraq.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.... We have heard this arguement 100 times from Bush and everyone else. He was a bad guy. ;) But.... The weapons inspectors did say in the early 90's that all the weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by Saddam's regime and the Gulf War. The nerve gas that Bush spoke of had a life of 3 years. (So it would be dead by now) I just watched a great documentary of this subject and they had some of the intelligence commmunity speaking as well as some of the weapons inspectors in Iraq and they stated that Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction or any new programs for creating weapons of mass destruction.

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If you want to know why we haven't found any WMD then you need to check with the CIA. That's where the failure took place here (that's not to say any WMD won't be found). David Kay said the intelligence community owed Bush an apology and that Bush told him to find the "facts" and that he wasn't pressured in any way to fabricate the Iraqi WMD findings.

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The Bush administration distorted the facts that the CIA gave them. They should not need to apologise. (BTW do you have a link to the articleabout David Kay stating that the intelligence community owed Bush a apology - google has failed to find a site for me) Saddam has not had more than a few weapons of mass destruction for a while now. If we really want to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, why dont we look into our own back yard?

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod
Yeah, yeah, yeah.... We have heard this arguement 100 times from Bush and everyone else. He was a bad guy. ;)

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Tell me you don't disagree? I think his past is relevant, e.g. his prior use of WMD on his people and Iranians.

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod

The Bush administration distorted the facts that the CIA gave them. They should not need to apologise.

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You have no evidence of this.

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod

(BTW do you have a link to the articleabout David Kay stating that the intelligence community owed Bush a apology - google has failed to find a site for me)

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I have been hearing it all day on the news (fox) but I will get you the link when I get a chance (waiting on a package at the moment).

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod
Saddam has not had more than a few weapons of mass destruction for a while now. If we really want to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, why dont we look into our own back yard?

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It would be great if no one had WMD, unfortunately the rest of the world has them and we could not allow ourselves to be blackmailed by another rogue, Dictatorial, nation. Given the history of the US (other than Hiroshima/Nagasaki) we have a responsible track record pertaining to our possession/non-use of these weapons ever since.

.dublix

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Originally posted here by dublix
[B]Tell me you don't disagree? I think his past is relevant, e.g. his prior use of WMD on his people and Iranians.

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Yeah, he is a bad guy, I just disagree with the way we went about going and taking him out of power. (And for the constantly changing reasons)

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You have no evidence of this.

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At the moment. No. But I do have some good quotes from that documentary that I will share with all of you when I watch it again. It was some good evidence.

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I have been hearing it all day on the news (fox) but I will get you the link when I get a chance (waiting on a package at the moment).

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I worry about Fox news. Too much celebrity news for me. ;)

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It would be great if no one had WMD, unfortunately the rest of the world has them and we could not allow ourselves to be blackmailed by another rogue, Dictatorial, nation. Given the history of the US (other than Hiroshima/Nagasaki) we have a responsible track record pertaining to our possession/non-use of these weapons ever since.

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Are we ever going to use the stockpiles of chemical weapons and nukes that the US government still has laying around? Ok, if we dont want to be blackmailed, then keep 100 (or even 500 - that shoud be enough to screw the world up) nukes around for safety (not thousands). (If that makes you feel safe). (Looking for a GWB quote that fits this situation)

Why don't we just tax Jesse Jackson? That would almost eliminate our entire national debt after a few years, wouldn't it? :D

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Originally posted here by The Mormon
Why don't we just tax Jesse Jackson? That would almost eliminate our entire national debt after a few years, wouldn't it? :D

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Why dont we just tax the Bush's kickbacks, or better yet the rich! (Since I am not one of them that works even better!)

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod
Yeah, he is a bad guy, I just disagree with the way we went about going and taking him out of power. (And for the constantly changing reasons)

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Fair enough. Although I don't think the reasons have changed, just that the outcome (what has been found so far) hasn't brought much fruit to bear just yet. David Kay also said that their ricin research/program continued all the way up until the war and that weapons programs were still intact, ready to be back to production level (at some capacity). Kay also said that terrorist were passing through the country freely (draw from that what you want). I don't have much more specifics on that at the moment. The days ahead will give us a bigger picture about all of this.

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod

I worry about Fox news. Too much celebrity news for me.

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Yeah, me too, that and they have gone too far to the left! j/k

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Originally posted here by CXGJarrod

Are we ever going to use the stockpiles of chemical weapons and nukes that the US government still has laying around? Ok, if we dont want to be blackmailed, then keep 100 (or even 500 - that shoud be enough to screw the world up) nukes around for safety (not thousands). (If that makes you feel safe).

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From what I understand we are destroying all of the chemical/bio weapons it's just a slow process. The amount of nukes we have really depends on the size of each warhead. Who knows exactly how big each of those thousands are. Some could be strategic, others could be the mother-load. I agree that we should only keep what we 'need'.

.dublix

Dublix,

I am not a Democrat or a Republican, I probably align more to the Libertarian view. On gun control and the death penalty I am conservative, on a woman's right to choose a liberal. I am a dangerous person, I have a mind, I don't need a political party or union boss to tell me how to think. My opinions on the Bush administration are mine, unfortunately for Mr Bush a lot of other people share them.

Kennedy started a mess in the '60's challenging the country to defend democracy wherever. We are not the global police dept. When the people of the world get sick of their dictators they will revolt and the dictators will become unemployed. If we are threatened than we defend our country. It is not our job to enforce "humanity". If humanity is what we seek to preserve, we could do it within our borders and buy "Granny" her prescription.

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Originally posted here by fourdc

I am a dangerous person, I have a mind, I don't need a political party or union boss to tell me how to think.

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Cheer up, I don't think you're a dangerous person, more an American than anything else. That's your right and so it should be.

By the way, I don't need anyone to tell me how to think either. However, I understand that if I want things to go the way I would like them to go then I need to side with the Elephant party (R). Most of what they stand for I stand for. You may not been as fortunate as I am, perhaps neither party lines up with the majority of what you choose to believe/want for the country. Maybe some day a party will arise that does.

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Originally posted here by fourdc

My opinions on the Bush administration are mine, unfortunately for Mr Bush a lot of other people share them.

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Well, since your in Vermont and the Dem's have been up there for the last year and all this last week bashing Bush it doesn't surprise me others around you are thinking this way. Besides, the NorthEast is fairly Liberal.

The Presidents 'voice' hasn't been heard since he's not unleashed his campaign just yet. Not with any ads at least.

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Originally posted here by fourdc

When the people of the world get sick of their dictators they will revolt and the dictators will become unemployed.

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What dream-world have you been living in? You make it sound like that's an easy task to accomplish? If that were so then the Iraqi people would have done it long ago, they obviously had the will but didn't have the resources. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you think it is.

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Originally posted here by fourdc

If we are threatened than we defend our country.

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And rightly so.

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Originally posted here by fourdc


It is not our job to enforce "humanity".

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That may be true, but it doesn't bother me one bit if we take the initiative and do so. I care more about people than I do about politics.

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Originally posted here by fourdc

If humanity is what we seek to preserve, we could do it within our borders and buy "Granny" her prescription.

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And this is where we agree wholly.

.dublix

Simplicity:

1. The US has a structure where, the more you make, the more you are taxed. The US has a huge middle class and even though I shell out a bitch load of money each year, the so called "rich" pay a vast majority of our taxes. I say "our" because I am part of that middle class. The less you make, the less you pay, SOME - even pay nothing in taxes AND get a check back from the government. I could call that a kickback if you want to throw around the word. That's great incentive to elevate your personal financial standing or keep you there and lead you on a leash to the voting booth. In fact if one in that status did go out in find a job that put him over the kickback limit he might actually take home less at the end of the day. I believe we all pay a fair share, I can't see the oppositional point of view. I think it's just made up to rally the lower classes into some rash action.

2. The popular tag line, in a generic sense I hear and see all over the country "I support the removal of Saddam but not how we did it" does not make sense. OK so what if I buy that line, now what? You support the removal. The how we did it is in the past. "We should have got global consensus" So what? We tried, we as a united states, removed Saddam, you already said you support the removal of Saddam. Goal achieved?

3. "Bush lied to us about WMD", we love WMD it's plastered everywhere. WMD WMD WMD, woo hoo. "The war was manufactured for Haliburton" Haliburton Haliburton Haliburotn woo hoo. This is a grey area for me but I don't give a woo hoo, who the oval office picked to rebuild Iraq. Who cares, I care about them getting the job done and they are. "I support the rebuilding of Iraq, just not how they are going about it, filling Cheney's pockets and kicking back profits to Bushy." ??

"Bush lied to us about WMD" maybe the media hasn't picked up on it but during his speech back before the ware he said "before" they become an issue. But I know that is just being critical on wording etc... so I simply, remember I am guilty of simplicity... I just wonder... where is the lack of WMD? He had them, even the ones who want to put Saddam back into his mansions don't argue that? The UN has too much evidence to support otherwise. So let's pretend he destroyed them all, dismantled his biolabs, took the uranium out of scuds and played nice with the world. Now, where is that evidence? Where are the drums of uranium, where are the stores of toxic chemicals? Did I miss something, those things just don't evaporate into thin air. Did he turn them over to the UN? I can't find any documentation that says so, and in fact I don't even care.

4. I support the removal of Saddam Hussein and since it's happened. I support a peaceful and beneficial relationship of a republic of Iraq, were some kind of democratic government prospers. We don't know what that is yet because the people haven't formulated it but I support whatever they choose, weather a republic where the people elect a representative, to represent them, a true "democracy" where the people vote on everything and decide every course of government. Based on my own contact with the general public in the US I don't really side with that, but it may work there. Although I think it's effectiveness is indirectly hurt through large populous societies, at eny rate I hope it works for them.

5. The success of Iraq is my number one issue. You can make coal mines and religious statues yours, or even Haliburton and WMD. It’s your choice. Mine is Iraq, its costing a lot of lives and a lot of my money. I do not want it to fail. That would be the real atrocity in my mind. Number 2 on the list is continued vigilance, with common sense, to the patriot act. Number 3 is the budget deficit and how it relates to Iraq. Notice how other trivial matters do not play into my major issues. Like, somebody’s impression of the US on a farm in India, or the fact the UN is pissed at us, because I am equally pissed at them for failing. Or Bushes alleged kick backs or his choice on immigration, or Medicare. Those things are important but they are under the bar, I don't agree with them but other matters have priority for me.