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Tedob1, i wholeheartedly agree with your opening statement. do you believe therefor, that any compromise/peaceful solution is possible on any level, or, do you believe that thinsg are going to get worse and worse, or perhaps just worse, before they get better?!
None: Once the powers that be begin to go down that road, then it is the end.Quote:
what are the alternatives too playing global thermo-nuclear war and i dont mean this as a retorical question.
Although with modern MIRV technology, and smaller warheads {greater accuracy = smaller punch required] the attendant aftermath is somewhat reduced, compared to the MAD philosophy of the 60's.
The [IMO] only alternative is to set loose the special forces, and give them unlimited power of decision and implementation.
Downside: They are only human [unlike the enemy] and they are relatively few in number.
Although I do not see the need for the nuclear response just yet. I do foresee a time, not too distant, whereby the options for control have been exercised and found wanting.
THEN the nuclear option will be considered REAL close.
As for the rest of Tedob's post:
I agree that whilst there is only a very small minority doing the deeds, the remainder are actively endorsing them by not denouncing them from the rooftops.
A few years ago in the UK, a politician [Tory, I think] suggested that the way to test someones 'loyalty' to this [UK] country, was to see who they supported in a cricket match !!!!!!!
The thinking being that, although people consider and say that they are British, come the sporting crunch, and they all cheer on their 'own' side.
The transposition to the Muslim would be that they consider themselves to be Muslim first, second and final. Their nationality is of no consequence to them.
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while the 97% want peace they dont necessarly want to go out of their way to stop the 3% and wouldn't be that very upset if the 3% got what they wanted.
From the first quote: 3% guilty. To the second quote: I think that you can work out the collateral damage requirements .............Quote:
if 10 poeple are congragating in an area and one pulls out a gun, the other 9 happen to share his custom and traditions but not his aims. how many of them will be deemed as ok to injure and kill as part of collatorel damage to get the 1 person who has the gun?!
From Heinrich Himmler: Not the best source for a quote, but an example to show that it isn't unthinkable to DO the unthinkable.Quote:
Better to kill a dozen innocent men. Than to allow one guilty man to go free
And you can bet your bottom dollar, that somewhere in the bowels of the military, someone is considering AND proposing any and all options to our political leadership.
Nothing will be discounted out of hand. Because something HAS to be done.
Although I would take bets that the words 'Crusade' and 'Final Solution' will NOT make it to the front cover of 'The Plan'.
[QUOTE] http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html/QUOTE]
Ive just finished reading that site. Its the major, greatest piece of **** ive ever read!
I can do the same thing (change to good or bad thing) every piece of written language that you give me. Bible, Jewish text, US constitution, everything.
Extracting piece of a milenar text, transfer to present day without any argumentation is typical of brain-less people.
On the part "Musslin'God doesnt have a son, so its not the same God as Ours."
So jewish dont believe either. and the point is?
Cristian, Jewish and Musslin have that same base, but none are the SAME religion.
When i was reading that web site, i sudlenly felt that i was transported back in time to the 12th-14th century.
Musslin "wash brains"? and that text? clarify anything?
or is the same kind of "bad" text?
I cant defend any terrorism action because i believe that in any war two sides fight and the remainind (in the middle) are killed. One side wins, one side loose, but a lot of people were killed for nothing.
and that thing about "collateral damage" that someone wrote here. Man, if we can think like that, people that were killed o 9/11 were "colateral damage". The real purpose of that act was "weak the USA, destroying capitalism totems. Those women and men killed there was just a "side effect".
Feel uncomfortable with that thought? So then DONT ADVOCATE to bomb other people. Most of that guys will be innocent as those pool souls on New York.
Anyone that take it seriously should be burned on Hell...
BTW, you cant fight agains Terrorism bombing everywhere. You can win on a guerrila using traditional war strategies. Its a war of information, not nukes...
Rembember that Israel is on a war of information for more than 30 years. They still cant win when they use traditional strategies. Its the nature of "next generation" of war.
New war, new strategies.
[QUOTE] Originally posted here by cacosapo
cacosapo - You are right that the site is warped, but the intent of referencing the site was to note the quotes from the Quran, that advocate murder of non-muslims. I do not advocate the rest of the site. Hopefully, Cybr1d is going to give us some context surrounding the quotes. As for picking apart Christianity. Where in the "new testament" does Jesus tell us to go out and kill everyone not of our Faith? Come on now, support your claim or don't make it.Quote:
http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html/QUOTE]
Ive just finished reading that site. Its the major, greatest piece of **** ive ever read!
I can do the same thing (change to good or bad thing) every piece of written language that you give me. Bible, Jewish text, US constitution, everything.
Extracting piece of a milenar text, transfer to present day without any argumentation is typical of brain-less people.
[QUOTE Where in the "new testament" does Jesus tell us to go out and kill everyone not of our Faith? Come on now, support your claim or don't make it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Unfortunatelly, Bible is composed by all "books", not only the "new ones". Please read the entire Bible and see by yourself what kind of "kill everybody else" things are there. And that book (old testaments) is the base for Jewish, Cristian AND Musslin, although isnt part of Quran.
Did you read the entire Quran? Did you put the text on the correct context? (when the Profet is alive.) it is easy to get pieces of it and make all believers bad people.
So i will get crusades as an example and start to believe that all Europe NOW is to be burn to the ashes.
Its a "historical" book. Not all text in it is a model for this generation. And most of the musslin now that.
It is that kind of site (specifically that text) that make harder all religions staying on a peacefull condition. When you mencioned that text as "an example" how bad is their religion, you just bring rage and fury over everybody.
About Jesus, He is allways said to "spread love". Doing this kind of "reference" to other religion doesnt contribute to spread Jesus' Words.
It's interesting. The world somewhat reacts like this is something new. Like all of a sudden out of no where we (of the west) caused an uprising. Ignoring the past 30 years, post WW2, and on for almost 1 thousand years to the crusades and beyond to the start of Islam and the very words of Mohamed. His movements and his actions. I have posted a little history of him from time to time. From the very beginning their was conflict and it started with the Jews and grew to Christianity as it gained momentum in the centuries that passed the death of Christ.
I have read the whole Bible. And yes there were acts of vengence intitated by God. And that was under the old covenant. Everyone knows that the Bible is broken into two testaments. (The Old Testament, The New Testament) And Everyone knows that The New Testament is based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ, which were based upon peace and forgiveness. (I have used the term everyone loosely here on purpose. Yes there are people that have not heard of Jesus Christ, but lets avoid mashing semantics here.)Quote:
Originally posted here by cacosapo
Unfortunatelly, Bible is composed by all "books", not only the "new ones". Please read the entire Bible and see by yourself what kind of "kill everybody else" things are there. And that book (old testaments) is the base for Jewish, Cristian AND Musslin, although isnt part of Quran.
No. I have not read the Quran in it's entirety. That is why I said that hopefully Cybr1d will give us some context.Quote:
Did you read the entire Quran? Did you put the text on the correct context? (when the Profet is alive.) it is easy to get pieces of it and make all believers bad people.
If that's what will make you happy, I'm sure that we can arrange something. ;)Quote:
So i will get crusades as an example and start to believe that all Europe NOW is to be burn to the ashes.
The Bible is not just a "historical book". It is the Word of God.Quote:
Its a "historical" book. Not all text in it is a model for this generation. And most of the musslin now that.
O.k. I'll buy that. You can even make a case that Christians, in general, during times of War/Conflict prefer to fall back upon The Old Testament, and you will not get an argument out of me on that one.Quote:
It is that kind of site (specifically that text) that make harder all religions staying on a peacefull condition. When you mencioned that text as "an example" how bad is their religion, you just bring rage and fury over everybody.
Once again - I did not condone the website. And the quotes from the Quran are "Examples" under any definition. Perhaps someone later will post context clearing this up.
Oh yes it does! How can I explain the difference between one religion and Christianity without referencing to some points of difference between the two? Can you?Quote:
About Jesus, He is allways said to "spread love". Doing this kind of "reference" to other religion doesnt contribute to spread Jesus' Words. [/B]
Some were acts of God, like the "Flood" (sry, i cant imagine what is the english word for that), but some were just act from men.Quote:
And yes there were acts of vengence intitated by God.
Im catholic and Cristan and i dont believe in revenge from God. God, like Jesus said, is just Love.
When i refered to it as "historical" i mean that its text should be taken in the a historical context. So, beside its the Word of God, men transcript it. And ou know mankind; they use to "change" thinks to adapt to current context.Quote:
The Bible is not just a "historical book". It is the Word of God.
BTW, do you know that Quran is the "Word of God" too? Muslims believe in that.
backing to a historical context, cristian has more history of "hate" against othe religions that usslim. In fact, just in this 20th century cristians has started to accept that other people can have other religion.
The musslins, on other hand, has an history of cooperation. take the Spain invasion on 800- for example. everybody there could pratice their religion freely.
As i can see, they (the musslins) think that we are trying to "convert" them and they use to fight against that. Wont you fight against in the same situation?
(disclaimer: not defending terrorists with those statements)
The Quran is not the "Word of God." There is only one God, and there is only one Christ, and there is only one "Word of God", with that being the Bible. Neither God nor Christ has ever instructed Christians to give credence to or worship other Gods. As matter of fact this is forbidden by God.Quote:
BTW, do you know that Quran is the "Word of God" too? Muslims believe in that.
True but that is "History" and not the current teachings of Jesus Christ. Additionally, Christians understand that people believe in different religions, but we do not accept these religions as fact, because only by the acceptance of Jesus Christ into your heart can one achieve eternity.Quote:
backing to a historical context, cristian has more history of "hate" against othe religions that usslim. In fact, just in this 20th century cristians has started to accept that other people can have other religion.
Yeah. And that is why the World Trade Center Towers became a burning mass of rubble.Quote:
The musslins, on other hand, has an history of cooperation. take the Spain invasion on 800- for example. everybody there could pratice their religion freely.
As i can see, they (the musslins) think that we are trying to "convert" them and they use to fight against that. Wont you fight against in the same situation?
As for fighting - I would fight for my right to be free, but try as they might, I cannot be converted, for I know Christ as my saviour. What is wrong with wanting to convert Islamics over to Christianity anyways?
And you still haven't answered my question. Where does Jesus Christ say Kill everyone that is not a Christian? Which faith would you rather follow?
Sorry, but i cant understand why you insist to separate the Word of God. If New Testament is the Word of Jesus, The Old Testament is the Word of God. Since Jesus is the Son of God, His words is Words of God too. So, you cant split both books just to make your argument easier. Its possible the get the "chapters" from Quran and do the same.
Just being Cristiam, i was raised believing on diversity. My religion' education was directed to RESPECT others' religion.
The same argument you have against musslim it can be applied to other, such as Jewish. Using that kind of argumentation, instead trying to "spread convivence" is my first point.
If you can live here in Earth with diversity, please move on. Everybody has the right to religion, you CANT impose that yours is the correct one and the others is "evil".
In each word of Jesus, He just spread "love". I just cant match Jesus ideas, even changed somehow but the writters, with those that your writting.
Please go to the bible and read Matheus 5.43-48. There you can see what Jesus wants for his people. and for "his" people im NOT thinking about "cristiams" but th Mankind.
p.s. sry, i couldnt find a good translation from that Matheus passage. Its kinda tricky try to translate Bible.