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lol, even if both sides of the coin are stamped exactly alike, the minute they touch your hands (the operator/administrator) either side begins to change. For every flip there are subtle differences in the surface as it hits a counter or the asphalt or toilet water. I take heads.
No offence, but do you actualy read the stuff you reply to?Quote:
Originally posted here by gore
Don't say Linux has limitations because of your own.
The resources I gave, could be PAID FOR. That's right, just like you do with Windows, they could buy a BOOK. I know this may seem odd, but a book, is a device with paper in netween. You open it and there are words there!
If one doesn't have an internet conection, one can not get any help for Linux.
If this is not a limitation, then what is it?
Windows on the other hand\has a very handy "help" option, stuck in the top line of every folder. One doesn't need internet for it to work. It is writen in simple enough language, and it's free
I never used SuSE, so I'm not speaking about it. :p
I like diging under the hood of the system, but only after I know that it already does what I want it to do. I don't want to dig under the hood just to get it to do the besic tasks.
when you will buy your first car, which car will you prefer, the one that can go over 200, but doesn't go at all untill you tweak the engine? Or will you prefer the one that does a 100, but goes straight away no problems encountered?
Before there is another round of head spitting, linux has a built in manual. try it.Quote:
If one doesn't have an internet conection, one can not get any help for Linux.
type "man" or "man ?" and play.... of course you must be in a terminal shell.
That is alot of "help"
/EDIT Actually the best place to start is typing "man 1 intro"
Read it. Its a nica ah. In most cases you can man a command and get info. like say you have trouble with grep so you "man grep" and viola! Oh and ya typa "q" to quit man.
Don't appologize to me for arrogance, nothing wrong with that. ;)Quote:
Originally posted here by idmismatch
EDIT: No, that's a little arrogant and bullshitty of me. I've used books for NT4 Server quite a bit, and referred to a number of howtos for all sorts of linux server bits. Like I'd work out how to set up samba/ldap on my own!
One, as already pointed out all UNIX systems come with man pages which are thousands of manuals. Two, Linux has a strong point with the amount of Docs RIGHT ON THE CD YOU INSTALLED WITH.Quote:
Originally posted here by nightcat
No offence, but do you actualy read the stuff you reply to?
If one doesn't have an internet conection, one can not get any help for Linux.
If this is not a limitation, then what is it?
Windows on the other hand\has a very handy "help" option, stuck in the top line of every folder. One doesn't need internet for it to work. It is writen in simple enough language, and it's free
I never used SuSE, so I'm not speaking about it. :p
I like diging under the hood of the system, but only after I know that it already does what I want it to do. I don't want to dig under the hood just to get it to do the besic tasks.
when you will buy your first car, which car will you prefer, the one that can go over 200, but doesn't go at all untill you tweak the engine? Or will you prefer the one that does a 100, but goes straight away no problems encountered?
Two, I'd thake the McLaren F1 that does 0 - 100 in 4 seconds and can go 240 MPH and requires no tweaking. Just like SUSE Linux.
Don't try that reverse **** on me talking about cars it doesn't work. I stand by what I use and yes I would in fact take the car that needs tweaking. I understand that speed and stability sometimes come at the price of ease of use. Like how a stick shift of any model of car would kick the **** out of the automatic version because you can control the RPMs.... Funny how I said RPMs, just like what Linux uses, and you can control them.
In other words:
If you don't like Linux then stick with your Pinto that blows up everytime you throw a bump or back door at it ;)
Well, if Pinto gets me from A to B, then yes, I'll stick to it. The speed limit is 70 here anyway :p
Just a question.
How many people will know that one can get to these "man" page through comand line?
I didn't.
At the moment I've got Linux in front of me on the second mashine.
I did what RoadClosed advised. The problem is, that to get the answer I migt be looking for, I have to read through the whole manual and most likely more. Do I want to waste my time on this? No, I don't. I've got other things to do and I've got only 4 hours left to sleep.
So, guys . For an average Joe, your advise is no good. He will stick to Pinto, same as me. Although, personaly, I prefer Honda Civic sedan or even better Jaguar X Type , with semi automatic gearbox.
Good night :)
Then why do you bother to continue this when you're to lazy to read? **** man no one cares that Linux might be odd to some jack ass who drools on the keyboard. And who know what the man command does? Anyone who's ever read that oh so huge user basics thing you were bitching about. 400 pages for basic users my ass. Recompiling the whole Kernel doesn't need more than 8 pages, and a home user would never do that.
Why not dump fedora and get Linspire, it's made for those who need their hand held when Fedora gets to hard.
You are right, you are not worth arguing with :) .
It's been told many times here, that nobody, I repeat NOBODY is trying to say which one of Linux or Windows is better. And you keep on trying to prove the point NOBODY here is arguing about.
When I started the thread I produced an "average user's point of view, as I saw it.
Let's agree, that neither of us is an "average" user, that's why we are willing to learn new things about computers. It is and is always going to be our job to provide "average users with the tools they need and want to have.
Unfortunately, so far Linux is falling well short of being a usefull tool for the "average" user. And no matter how many arguments you will try to produce to prove that it is a good OS, which it is, it still won't become any more useful.
What linux needs now, and slowly goes to, is a well thought through usability requirements and well designed user interface.
To give you an example:
I just signed a contract for a website. There is a team of 5 profecional designers working on the way the site should look and work, there's only 3 people coding it. And that's just a small website.
Linux is an OS, it requires much more work then a website. Windows has got thousands of people working on it, they are highly qualifyed profecionals, they can not get it all right.
Linux has got a bunch of volunteers, who are as good as people working for Microsoft, but care only about the functions of the OS, not how it is presented.
If the Linux goes the way it is, it'll get to the point of being usable in about 3 - 4 years. I am sure that will make my life more interesting :D .
One more thing,Quote:
Originally posted here by gore
Then why do you bother to continue this when you're to lazy to read? **** man no one cares that Linux might be odd to some jack ass who drools on the keyboard. And who know what the man command does? Anyone who's ever read that oh so huge user basics thing you were bitching about. 400 pages for basic users my ass. Recompiling the whole Kernel doesn't need more than 8 pages, and a home user would never do that.
Why not dump fedora and get Linspire, it's made for those who need their hand held when Fedora gets to hard.
What was it that I said about Linux users friendliness :confused: :D
Quote:
Originally posted here by RoadClosed
Before there is another round of head spitting, linux has a built in manual. try it.
type "man" or "man ?" and play.... of course you must be in a terminal shell.
That is alot of "help"
/EDIT Actually the best place to start is typing "man 1 intro"
Read it. Its a nica ah. In most cases you can man a command and get info. like say you have trouble with grep so you "man grep" and viola! Oh and ya typa "q" to quit man.
There's a better example (as man tar is actually quite helpful, despite that warning), but I don't recall which man page it is.Code:# man tar
....
BUGS
The GNU folks, in general, abhor man pages, and create info documents instead.
The maintainer of tar falls into this category. This man page is neither complete,
nor current, and was included in the Debian Linux packaging of tar entirely to
reduce the frequency with which the lack of a man page gets reported as a bug
in our defect tracking system.
If you really want to understand tar, then you should run info and read the tar
info pages, or use the info mode in emacs.
I use man a lot of the time, as I don't remember every command line option of every program I use. Many man pages are fantastic (like sudoers), but some aren't so much help. Windows help isn't always that much help, but it is often more solution based, rather than a reference guide. I think both systems work well for the environment, but I do have to use online help more for Linux than for Windows. Mind you, I use Linux more than I do Windows so that's not much of a revalation.
EDIT: Another example is man diff - just gives you a list of command line options. Doesn't actually tell you what to do with the results, what this < and > is all about, not the 29,30c29,30 **** is for. That's not help. I'm now waiting for somone to point out that only an idiot would have difficulty working out how to use the diff output... which would kind of prove my point...
Hang on, why am I arguing? Mr avarage user shouldn't need to be in the command line anyway, there's probably a decent graphical diff program out there anyway - and many KDE apps at least do have good help!
Sorry to make this post so long, but I've just come back from a long lunch where they screwed about with our booking and gave us free drinks....