An "Intelligently Designed" Ruling?

Just a humorous footnote, the date on the article is January 23, 2006! Today is January 15, 2006

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An "Intelligently Designed" Ruling? (Excerpt)
by John Eidsmoe
January 23, 2006

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:D

Just a humorous footnote, the date on the article is January 23, 2006! Today is January 15, 2006

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An "Intelligently Designed" Ruling? (Excerpt)
by John Eidsmoe
January 23, 2006

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:D

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Originally posted here by Relyt
Just a humorous footnote, the date on the article is January 23, 2006! Today is January 15, 2006




:D

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LOL....That's good, now we can include the fortune tellers into this debate....where are those "Inquisitors" when you need them eh!.....maybe the ID crowd can foretell, sort of goes with their whole theory..."mystical", the unknown......

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In Bugs Bunny We Trust

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I think that was Reagan, or Mulroney, take your pick on that one....


As to crime being down and the correlation between crime and school, I think these are two seperate issues, yes, crime as a whole is down, but truancy and school vandalism and just plain disrespect to the teachers are way up....and it's down to two camps, the teachers are overwhelmed (large classes) and the parents have dropped their kids off at the babysitters (schools), no supervision leads to trouble..........

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The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so?

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

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What about the Declaration of Independence?

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We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all.

The references to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.

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Is America a Christian Nation

Seems to me that a lot of what is happening today, is a result of certain individuals (Ike being one) using their office to enact changes to the original intent???

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Originally posted here by Relyt
Just a humorous footnote, the date on the article is January 23, 2006! Today is January 15, 2006




:D

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LOL....That's good, now we can include the fortune tellers into this debate....where are those "Inquisitors" when you need them eh!.....maybe the ID crowd can foretell, sort of goes with their whole theory..."mystical", the unknown......

Quote:

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In Bugs Bunny We Trust

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I think that was Reagan, or Mulroney, take your pick on that one....


As to crime being down and the correlation between crime and school, I think these are two seperate issues, yes, crime as a whole is down, but truancy and school vandalism and just plain disrespect to the teachers are way up....and it's down to two camps, the teachers are overwhelmed (large classes) and the parents have dropped their kids off at the babysitters (schools), no supervision leads to trouble..........

Quote:

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The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so?

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

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What about the Declaration of Independence?

Quote:

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We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all.

The references to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.

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Is America a Christian Nation

Seems to me that a lot of what is happening today, is a result of certain individuals (Ike being one) using their office to enact changes to the original intent???

:) And this Ladies and Gentlemen this is the beauty of Cosmos. A DMZ in which we can all present our thoughts.

dalek,

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As to crime being down and the correlation between crime and school, I think these are two seperate issues, yes, crime as a whole is down, but truancy and school vandalism and just plain disrespect to the teachers are way up....and it's down to two camps, the teachers are overwhelmed (large classes) and the parents have dropped their kids off at the babysitters (schools), no supervision leads to trouble..........

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Actually crime is not down it skyrocketed if we give proper recognition as to when this all started.


--The last execution for rape was in 1964, and the rate has increased about 450 percent since 1962.

--In 1992, aggravated assault rates were at an all-time record of 441.8 per 100,000. This number has been climbing steadily since 1962,

--Murder rates nearly doubled from 1962 to 1972, but have held steady for the last 20 years.


What's important about 1962? Prayer was banned in school.


edit: shooting the message and not the messenger

The source relative to the other information is bias and hostile. I can't give it any credence.

Freedom From Religion Foundation
PO Box 750
Madison, WI 53701
(608) 256-8900

;)

:) And this Ladies and Gentlemen this is the beauty of Cosmos. A DMZ in which we can all present our thoughts.

dalek,

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As to crime being down and the correlation between crime and school, I think these are two seperate issues, yes, crime as a whole is down, but truancy and school vandalism and just plain disrespect to the teachers are way up....and it's down to two camps, the teachers are overwhelmed (large classes) and the parents have dropped their kids off at the babysitters (schools), no supervision leads to trouble..........

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Actually crime is not down it skyrocketed if we give proper recognition as to when this all started.


--The last execution for rape was in 1964, and the rate has increased about 450 percent since 1962.

--In 1992, aggravated assault rates were at an all-time record of 441.8 per 100,000. This number has been climbing steadily since 1962,

--Murder rates nearly doubled from 1962 to 1972, but have held steady for the last 20 years.


What's important about 1962? Prayer was banned in school.


edit: shooting the message and not the messenger

The source relative to the other information is bias and hostile. I can't give it any credence.

Freedom From Religion Foundation
PO Box 750
Madison, WI 53701
(608) 256-8900

;)

You pass off my source (the Bureau of Justice Statistics) as a nonsense source that is manipulating figures, and now you post some isolated stats without mentioning a source?

Fact is that (violent) crime has been going up seriously since 1975, and that it has been going down even more seriously since the early 1990's. The reason for it going down in the 1990's, as we all know but have problems admitting, is the legalization of abortion.

You need to look up the difference between correlation and causality, Relyt. There is indeed a correlation between school prayer and violence in society, but there is absolutely no proven causality (there is a proven causality between legalization of abortion and a crime drop, btw).

And you can pass off dalek's source as nonsense, too, Relyt, but it'd be nice if you used some sources to do so... shoot the message, not the messenger :)

You pass off my source (the Bureau of Justice Statistics) as a nonsense source that is manipulating figures, and now you post some isolated stats without mentioning a source?

Fact is that (violent) crime has been going up seriously since 1975, and that it has been going down even more seriously since the early 1990's. The reason for it going down in the 1990's, as we all know but have problems admitting, is the legalization of abortion.

You need to look up the difference between correlation and causality, Relyt. There is indeed a correlation between school prayer and violence in society, but there is absolutely no proven causality (there is a proven causality between legalization of abortion and a crime drop, btw).

And you can pass off dalek's source as nonsense, too, Relyt, but it'd be nice if you used some sources to do so... shoot the message, not the messenger :)

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...and now you post some isolated stats without mentioning a source?

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Absolutely fair, thanks for bringing it up.

I was actually reading "The Color of Crime", How much violent crime is there in America and who commits it? by Samuel Taylor.

I was interested in the role if any, ethnic origins played in the crimes committed in America and I stumbled across this article during our discussion. In the Historical Trends paragraph is where I found the information. I put in italics, bold, and underlined my cites. Also the context in which they were presented.

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Historical Trends

Crime is a serious problem, and getting worse. However, not all crimes are increasing at the same rate. The murder rate has essentially been flat for 20 years (see first chart). Though preliminary reports indicate a slight upturn in 1993, there were actually almost 1,000 fewer murders in 1992 than in the previous year. It is true that the 1992 total of 23,760 is far higher than the 8,530 murders in 1962, but much of the rise is due to increases in population. The national murder rate -- the number of killings per 100,000 Americans -- has risen from 4.6 in 1962 to only 9.3 in 1992. Americans are therefore twice as likely to kill each other as they were 30 years ago, but this is a modest increase compared to the rise in other violent crimes.

For murder, 1962 was something like the end of an era. The rate per 100,000 had bobbed along between four and five during most of the 1940s and 1950s (it was an uncharacteristically high 5.8 in 1938), but first went above 9.0 in 1972. Since then, aside from a high of 10.2 in 1980, the rate has stayed between 7.9 and 9.8. The United States is not therefore, suffering from a shocking and unprecedented plague of murders. Murder rates nearly doubled from 1962 to 1972, but have held steady for the last 20 years.

Rape shows a very different pattern. In the 1930s, rape was considered a more serious offense than it is today, and could well get a man the death penalty. As sexual mores changed and rape ceased to merit execution, rape rates soared. The last execution for rape was in 1964, and the rate has increased about 450 percent since 1962.

In 1992, aggravated assault rates were at an all-time record of 441.8 per 100,000. This number has been climbing steadily since 1962, when the figure was 88.6, or about one fifth the current rate. Overall violent crime rates show a similar increase. It is important to bear in mind that these are crime rates, not raw numbers, and the upward slope of these lines reflects an increasingly crime-prone society, not a larger population...

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...and now you post some isolated stats without mentioning a source?

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Absolutely fair, thanks for bringing it up.

I was actually reading "The Color of Crime", How much violent crime is there in America and who commits it? by Samuel Taylor.

I was interested in the role if any, ethnic origins played in the crimes committed in America and I stumbled across this article during our discussion. In the Historical Trends paragraph is where I found the information. I put in italics, bold, and underlined my cites. Also the context in which they were presented.

Quote:

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Historical Trends

Crime is a serious problem, and getting worse. However, not all crimes are increasing at the same rate. The murder rate has essentially been flat for 20 years (see first chart). Though preliminary reports indicate a slight upturn in 1993, there were actually almost 1,000 fewer murders in 1992 than in the previous year. It is true that the 1992 total of 23,760 is far higher than the 8,530 murders in 1962, but much of the rise is due to increases in population. The national murder rate -- the number of killings per 100,000 Americans -- has risen from 4.6 in 1962 to only 9.3 in 1992. Americans are therefore twice as likely to kill each other as they were 30 years ago, but this is a modest increase compared to the rise in other violent crimes.

For murder, 1962 was something like the end of an era. The rate per 100,000 had bobbed along between four and five during most of the 1940s and 1950s (it was an uncharacteristically high 5.8 in 1938), but first went above 9.0 in 1972. Since then, aside from a high of 10.2 in 1980, the rate has stayed between 7.9 and 9.8. The United States is not therefore, suffering from a shocking and unprecedented plague of murders. Murder rates nearly doubled from 1962 to 1972, but have held steady for the last 20 years.

Rape shows a very different pattern. In the 1930s, rape was considered a more serious offense than it is today, and could well get a man the death penalty. As sexual mores changed and rape ceased to merit execution, rape rates soared. The last execution for rape was in 1964, and the rate has increased about 450 percent since 1962.

In 1992, aggravated assault rates were at an all-time record of 441.8 per 100,000. This number has been climbing steadily since 1962, when the figure was 88.6, or about one fifth the current rate. Overall violent crime rates show a similar increase. It is important to bear in mind that these are crime rates, not raw numbers, and the upward slope of these lines reflects an increasingly crime-prone society, not a larger population...

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