what other forums do people go to?

Kids... I've been arguing my same point for years...

If you come here and publish the code and tell someone "This is what you do to use it" then your intent is not good.

If you come here and tell us the code works by doing this, that and the other without a detailed set of instructions on how to use the exploit then that is just fine. Your showing me the code will give me a chance to determine what I can do to stop it.... At a minimum I might be able to come up with a Snort rule to tell me when I have seen the exploit on my network.

That's what full disclosure is about.... Tell me the information and let me decide what I need to do about it.... Spoonfeed some little dickhead.... Now that's a different issue....

ya im not saying you should be giving someone step by step instructions to do anything, but dont hide information because it could be used badly.

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but dont bind people to your ethics.

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Sorry for the double post but I think this requires it's own, individual, response.....

If I don't try to bind you to my ethics I have none at all.... or at best, I have only yours... I have more than you... But, the unethical you, wants me to desert mine so you or others can have your destructive mayhem...

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you guys sound like a bunch of newbies that arent unwilling to share information, but rather dont have the information to share to begin with.

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Then move on dear boy... move on... We stay for our own reasons... Far be it from us to force you to stay where you aren't wanted or needed... We've survived in the past, we are surviving in the present and, those of us that have remained here for a while will continue to survive in the future.... Funny how it works... I put it down to intelligence and the ability to understand.... You seem to think that if I don't do things that fit your "ethics" then I am a noob....

Funny, waaaay too funny.... I was kicking the ass of stupid little children like you before your daddy even knew what the "twinkle" in his adolescent eye was.... You think you are hanging on the "dark side".... Son, I could bring you so much ****ing dark you wouldn't be able to find your light switch or your dick... Trust me....

Trot along now and play with your little friends....

The way I look at it is:

AO exists because it makes someone, somewhere money, **** bust.

How does it make that money? Well if you look at the top of every page, you will see adverts from: Microsoft, Intel, IBM, HP etc etc.

Now would anyone of them companys want their name on a "hacking" web site......nope... hence the reason people who post stuff like you are on about Freakyg, dont tend to stay here for long because this will take away the advertising, the money and ultimatley AO.

You know what this site is and what its not by now, if you dont like it or dont agree with it...... simple answer..go somewhere else. If you do like it, stay.

lol. this is starting to get funny.

i honestly couldnt care less about who you are, or who you think i am. i only know what i am, and what you portray. youve assumed that i am a little kid or teenager that spends his time causing all kinds of problems for helpless little people. ever heard the saying that to assume makes an Ass out of you and Me?

now i believe ive kept mostly to the points on the topic at hand, not too personal? and yet you seem to want to take it there. are you really that much more mature? my perception that most people who want to hide knowledge on forums, are those people who dont have it, and that is a valid statement for most "security boards"

but what it gets right down to, is that you want to teach people how to secure without teaching people how to break, and while that might work some of the time, you arent teaching people how to think like their enemy. in order to protect, you need to undstand the thought process behind breaking in. looking for those ways in.

and Nokia: did you call me "**** bust"? sorry that was just so out of the blue im just not sure. thats aside that if it was an insult, i just plain dont understand what it was supposed to be insulting. but anyways, you do make a good point, this site does seem to revolve around making money and advertisements. the community comes second?

and you're also right, i do tend to end up getting banned from sites that like to control how its information is used, cause i usually get into these identical debates. Pisses off the staff cause some one is distrubing their belief that they are right and people shouldnt have an opinion other than there own.

i like information. ill share any information i have. i might not be out hacking the white house websites, but im not gonna screen anyone who wants to know something that could be potentially dangerous or illegal. i could kill you witha pencil, but im not gonna keep a student from using a pencil because it could be dangerous.

in my current field we use a motto for dealing with people that goes "Assume Innocence". Why dont you assume people are good until proven guilty? might just be my country that has those values though.

I just looked at your profile....

I was _exactly_ correct... I have been dealing with security _professionally_, since before your daddy had his twinkle.... In many of it's forms... In that time I have learned to see things in people... I see it in you... No big deal, you aren't important to me...

Reminder: _Only_ _I_ know who or what I am too... A pissing match with a juvenile isn't something I'll get into with you... You aren't worth my time or effort...

I suggested that if you don't like the place then just **** off.... Is that too compicated for you?

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Damn... another Canadian... What is it with you people?????

Nice Canadians excepted!!!!!!!!!!!

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No Freakyg, it was not an insult in anyway towards you, maybe its an english saying??

"AO exists because it makes someone, somewhere money, **** bust."

In-other-words, thats all there is to it, AO is here because it makes money, period! (think thats what you guys say?)

Just a point though, no-one is censoring anything here, anyone can post what they want, they may get some negative AP's or something for it but they can still post it.

If someone doesnt want to help someone who asks "how can I hack hotmail" well,, thats up to the individual, if someone does want to help him, fine.

This site used to be a hell of alot more fun and laid back...

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You know what this site is and what its not by now, if you dont like it or dont agree with it...... simple answer..go somewhere else. If you do like it, stay.

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I don't know where you and others get off thinking that this site is in any shape to drive membership away. There is really only two or three people I've known here that I can honestly say are a cool and bright bunch... we've each grown annoyed with the place.

Impressive. He lasted a whole 5 minutes and 1 post this time. Good job Mods!

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"Assume Innocence". Why dont you assume people are good until proven guilty? might just be my country that has those values though.

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Ahem?! Since when? Our Country is as backward when it comes to equibility as any...assumed innocent is an ideal but a very unrealistic one...the next time someone breaks into your house and a suspect is caught two streets down standing beside your tv...remind the oficers to let him go until the trial...I'm sure they'll be happy to oblige and forgo the paperwork.

Eg ;)