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Originally posted here by Agent_Steal
Interesting comment HT ..
Seems to me that you are not immune to that attitude yourself ;) , for which you are critizing others to have ... :rolleyes:
I don't think so... I'm not calling for manslaughter and saying they're evil for leaving him behind and judging the people on that mountain... (That's what everyone else here is doing)... I support what they did... there's a difference between judging people and supporting an action...
If I came across a man barely alive in an extreme remote area I would have a tough decision to make. And apparently 40 others made the same decision. Perhaps this would be going through my mind.
These guys weren't down at the bungalo they were on the side of a rock in one of the most hostile environments on the planet. Most helicopters can't even fly that high, and if it's so easy to rescue someone why do so many die? Including entire parties (of 8, 1996) who were highly skilled and just up and disapear and die. This guy left alone wasn't at the bottom and wasn't part of any team. Even the so called "base" camps are remote. In fact it seems that when death occurs it is rarely outside the company of others. Would I give up some of my clothing, oxygen and food when I and my team were in just as much peril? I don't know. Depends on how bad this guy was. Considering I have been to some remote parts of the world and are an avid diver, I have had several classes for advanced first aid. In all scenarios there is something that is the same. When you are faced with a situation the first thing you do is survey the scene. Is it safe? We wouldn't expect a fireman to storm into a building abaze beyond control. Or a bystander to run into a burning building with no protective gear to save a woman on the 4th floor window. And I think again, If it is so easy to rescue these people, why do they die year after year, in entire partys, alone, in groups of 2 or 3? Just some thought.
A couple of snippets:
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Climbers who die on the mountain are left where they perish because the effects of altitude make it nearly impossible to drag bodies away. Those ascending Everest pass through an icy graveyard littered with remnants of old tents and equipment, empty oxygen canisters, and frozen corpses.
I guess that if you know the odds and have seen the bodies you probably have a somewhat different view? :eek:Quote:
Between 1921 and 2004, Everest has been climbed by more than 2,200 people from twenty countries. More than 185 have lost their lives, making the odds on not coming down alive about one in eight.
Boy with all of the left over trash and bodies, at what point does it get that you can't just go around them anymore, I mean there are only so many ways to ascend to the summit on this Mtn.
I see a new job description coming up...Mtn Trash Removal.....$$$$ per day....oh well eventually with the global warming, everyone will be able to hike up the Mtn and stop at reststops the sherpas will have built by then.. :p
Hey dalek ,
I saw a documentary three or four years ago. The place is a real mess! What struck me was they pointed out these peoples' bodies, and no attempt had been made to recover them.
$75,000 a shot, and nobody is prepared to take on the retrieval of their clients' corpses :mad:
They shouldn't get the permits if they don't guarantee that. It would push the price up and force a better safety contingency IMO
;)
Agree, I'm amazed the families of these deceased don't at least make an effort to try and retrieve them, unless like at sea, where the Ocean has taken the corpse maybe they think it's sacriligeous to remove them...the field of conquest so to speak...Quote:
Originally posted here by nihil
Hey dalek ,
I saw a documentary three or four years ago. The place is a real mess! What struck me was they pointed out these peoples' bodies, and no attempt had been made to recover them.
$75,000 a shot, and nobody is prepared to take on the retrieval of their clients' corpses :mad:
They shouldn't get the permits if they don't guarantee that. It would push the price up and force a better safety contingency IMO
;)
IMO they should ban the practise of conquering the Mtn period...get the T-Shirt and move along nothing to see here...it's been done..then this sort of conversation would be moot.... :p
well, i've heard enough. seems humans can't keep themselves safe. i have the ultimate solution... blow up that damn mountain and any others like it... or we all get put into those things like in "The Matrix".
sound stupid? so does all of us siding one way or another in a situation like this. we can all stand and yammer this way or that about it, but - what does it solve? nothing. in fact how some side right now, could be the exact opposite when actually faced with that scenario.
i've seen men in the military who claimed to everyone and God that they were billy-bad-asses, but when the shite went down... some were actually billy-bad-asses, and some wet their pants and curled into a ball. same token here - hopefully without the pants wetting. i myself cannot say what i would do until faced with that situation, i would love to say "i would definitely help that person", but extreme situations sway moral fiber beyond most human's comprehension - a snap decision must be made. what if it's more than one person, what if you help a person at a certain altitude, and not know about another person about 1000 feet up further in worse condition. what if in a group, "do we help, or not - do we split up the group and one group goes up first while the other stays behind - switch out then take everyone down? or just go down altogther?" too easy to sit and judge while we are not in that situation.
my other solution - setup covered, heated escalators at all of these mountains people wish to climb... with soothing music of course, places to get off and have an espresso and a great gift shop at the top - with selected photo op areas and rides for the kids!
however to quote Dennis Miller "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."
There was an effort a few years back to go and retrieve cansisters. Don't remember about anyone wanting to retrieve bodies though. Considering you have a 1 in 8 chance of surviving to you want to tilt the odds more by being a good person and hauling a body down. Personally if I was on the type that wanted to climb and didn't make it I would want my body to stay on the mountain. Odd?
//EDIT Genexer mankinds greatest achievements are by romancing the the human spirit through putting ourselves in danger. Neil Armstrong, Columbus, Lewis and Clark, Buzz Aldrin, Yuri Gregorian , Mr. Spock (had to toss that in), Jesus, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Copernicus, Sacrates, the list goes and and will continue. When one thinks of kindleing the human spirit, books like Animal Farm and 1984 get written.
Are these guys along the same lines as Yuri or Martin Luther? No, more along the darwin awards but a side of me admires them.
Hey dalek I see your point, but it is nothing like the seafaring tradition. This is effort and economics I am afraid :(
Over 2,000 people have done it, and your chances of dying are 1 in 8. These people should be certified IMO, particularly when you consider the cost. It is not as if they are all young fit and single, they have families?
That English guy who died was on his third attempt, so he must have spent around $200,000.
Hey, I am as selfish as the next guy, but if I was to blow that kind of money it would be to put some of my junior relatives through college............... fun watching them sweat, and it wouldn't interfere with my drinking habits (reliable sources inform me that there are no decent bars above 12,000 feet :drink: )
I guess I feel that coming out of college 20,000~40,000 in debt isn't what I would call a good start to life. A rather more important consideration than climbing up some stupid rock?
But I always was a romantic :D
AND he lost BOTH of his legs on one attempt.Quote:
That English guy who died was on his third attempt, so he must have spent around $200,000.