Goth: I wasn't complaining about the adverts... i realize they need to have them and they were on the old page but they were smaller and wasnt what my eye was drawn to when i first visited the site
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Goth: I wasn't complaining about the adverts... i realize they need to have them and they were on the old page but they were smaller and wasnt what my eye was drawn to when i first visited the site
The ads haven't changed a bit. We don't even have the power to change them if we wanted to. In most cases they're 3rd party hosted, we just include em. If they appear different, it has to be an optical illusion.
I could not agree more strongly. Ive noticed some posts, or some of mine anyway are trauncated, as well what ever happened to the profiles. All I can say now is hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by linux1880
Noooo.......... AO is still web0.75 :(
OK guys, I will cut straight to the chase. When you do a major migration your first objective is to get the damn thing to work and that is what the crew have been concentrating on achieving.
Hey, if you have ever worked in support, or called support, just about the first two questions are:
1. Have you updated to the latest version?
2. Are you running the default settings?
Sooooooooo.............you start with the defaults and "vanilla" versions of things where possible, as that makes fault finding that much easier?
Sure the site could look a lot nicer and all, but please let us get the functionality sorted out first?
When Heidi and Joe send me the shredded version of the old site to use in my cat's litter tray, I shall let you know :eek:
Until then, please, please cut them some slack. They have done a marvellous job on a task that I would have frankly thought impossible.
I hope that you appreciate why we currently look like many other vB sites?.......... it is the vanilla version;)
Cheers
Johnno
JPnyc: I think its like the optical illusion with the 2 damn squares taht are the exact same size but you cant figure it out... might be because the AO logo is smaller now so it screwed my fried brain. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:O...quares.arp.jpg) This sites come a long ways in the past couple of days... on top of the hard work prior id have to give congrats for the continued up keep and communication. I cant say I have ever seen you post as much as you have since this upgrade.
i think what screws me up the most now is everyons avatar changing so I have to pay closer attention ;)
LOL...I love this line!Quote:
You'd become bubba's toy. Licenses, laws, attorneys, etc... And that may be part of the issue regarding the 'old vs new'. It was unique and fluid. Not confined by rigidity. Oh the lure of elitism (or something like that)
What the hell is wrong with you guys?
First of all, doing a major upgrade like this takes a lot of time, especially when the original software was hacked all to hell. You basically have to repair the database by hand and upgrade version by version. If you ever had experience with it, it's a nightmare. It is a lot of work, a lot of repetition, and a lot of troubleshooting ripping certain parts of code out and replacing newer code.
You're lucky you got the site up and functional in the time frame you did, but yet, it's just another thing to complain about.
Sure, it looks like 3.x.x stock. SUCK IT UP. Because you're so lazy and your eyes can't adjust to something new, you whine and complain about it. Your AP power is taken away, you whine and complain about it.
You bitch in one thread about how the old AO where it was all about information and learning was better, yet come onto this thread and whine because they asthetics don't please you. Now you have a forum based on information minus the BS politics and drama.
What does it take to please you?
I worked on a forum that was almost nine months in development and testing due to the amount of features and code hacking to the original vB software. I'll be damned to be the developer who upgrades that EVER. They could patch it, I'm sure, knowing the code and reading the documentation provided, but they could never use a stock vB upgrader. AND NEITHER COULD JUPITER MEDIA on this site.
This site is about security - that security also includes web security. Did you think for a moment that AO v. 2.x.x was secure? So you have to at least understand why the need for the major upgrade. vB also doesn't support your site any longer when you hack up the original code. They make a distinction between code additions/minor modifications and hacking it. Hacking the code nulls your support agreement.
The site was sold to a larger company that deals with a plethora of other sites. DEAL WITH IT. It's been that way for a while now. Bitching about it doesn't change the ownership. What makes you so arrogant to think that this site deserves 1000+ features and is hell to upgrade over another forum that's running stock? Maybe you ought to put your money where your mouth is or offer something more than whining about some "Old AO" (where the people were still the same, just in our heads we've made out to be some glorious timeframe and place), and offer some real suggestions to get the site to where you want it to be.
Auto-closing threads and AP policing shouldn't be a problem anymore. You have mods. When those things were implemented it was JP running the site. It made more sense then because it was just one person. Now the moderators have more of a job to do. But hey, that's why there are moderators, right?
I guess I just don't understand the people here anymore. /laugh
I did! :pQuote:
offer some real suggestions to get the site to where you want it to be.
At least with 3.5.x, the hacks do not mess with the core code as 2.x did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina
Yeah, 2.x was a nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Punch
Much like teh PHPbb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina
Anyway, it was expected somebody was going to cry about the changes, the look sucks, etc. I clearly remember even when JP did changes people cried. They got used to it eventually...
I'm sure some people's worlds are collapsing. Maybe they'll disconnect their internet connection while on their manic rampage. No loss there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Punch
Whatever the case, change is difficult for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina
I also find it amusing when i see people like you whining about the the so called whiners. While somone folks have been perturbed, some have actually been giving suggestions (including mods) which have been actively followed and implemented by the admins. Even some of the mods have acknowledged that the site design needs some more work. JP is going to start with the design team now that the backend thing is over.
So why not use your wide "IT" experience in helping this development phase grow further instead of boasting about your so-called experience.
If someone in the crowd throws a stone, you should'nt call the whole crowd a mob.
:rolleyes:
Update or Upgrade?
too much yellow for my eyes......but then again that should not matter to a colour blind person like me.
This site has been attacked so much that if it needed an upgrade for that reason there are no complaints here.
Seeing AO offline is a rare occurance since the day i joined.
# seen 3 major site upgrades(one of them i lost member number 22 after being 22nd person to sign up for forums).
# seen the members numbers increase by 100,000 after 2nd update.
# Seen all the bitching before.
Now everyone needs to move ahead without all the F@ck this and F@ck that attitudes.
I appreciate the need to keep the software behind the site upgraded, and doing it in 2 days is impressive. Nonetheless, this design is fugly. And my avatar is gone!!!
Ahh don't cry. Come and talk to me. I miss you.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgkanchi
Love, Jack
Hehe,
But seriously, if the site was still running the 2.x series, it was high time for an upgrade. The site will eventually evolve all over again until we're all comfortable with it (well most of us). Mnstrgrl, good job on the upgrade. /me hands Mnstrgrl some coffee.
Cheers,
cgkanchi
hehe the cops take that position. If someone throws a rock at them from a crowd..that "mob" is dispersed.Quote:
If someone in the crowd throws a stone, you should'nt call the whole crowd a mob.
haha.....man that had me rotflmao!Quote:
I'm sure some people's worlds are collapsing. Maybe they'll disconnect their internet connection while on their manic rampage. No loss there
Christina, you hit it on the head.Quote:
Your AP power is taken away, you whine and complain about it.
Perhaps you missed the upgrade notice? We were all instructed to back up our files.(including avatars)Quote:
And my avatar is gone!!!
Good job on the upgrade! Your hard work is appreciated.
Thank you, Larry.
Thank me?
For what? for showing a little appreciation for the ability to come to a site that I contribute very little too..for free? This isn't some brown nose kiss booty routine. It is simply bringing things to a proper perspective. We have a site that has had massive amounts of labor/money poured into it. We join for free. The only contributions we are asked to make are some thoughtful and salient posts. The admins/developers spends hours making changes that HAVE to be made sometime.
What happens? Ingratitude on a massive scale from people who should KNOW better. Some of the complainers know more about php that I'll ever know.
Christina hit it on the head with her reference to a "mob" . The jungian collective or "hive" mind sure got mis-directed on this one.
I am reminded that the "crowd" that welcomed Jesus in to Jerusalem crying "Hosana to the King"
were the same ones that cried "CRUCIFY HIM" a few days later. The mob mentality is very easily activated and then manipulated by a few malcontents. Someone has to be the voice of sanity. I'm not saying that I'm "it" but I would like to help.
So to put thinks back into the proper perspective...THANK YOU.
Wow, thanks for THAT too! I understand how they feel. I tend to be change-resistant myself, but in this case it was unavoidable. We couldn't continue running that antiquated and butchered software. All it takes is a little time to get used to it. And we'll work on granting some of the requests made also.
WTF...
AO is ugly.
You can't blame vBulletin for that. Although I do applaud the upgrade, it was definitely needed.
What's Eg? Who's Eg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokia
Thanks.
I have no idea...I guess nokia is talking about Ham and Eggs...or...I am the Eg man cho coo ca choo...:D
That quote is a bit of of context. Nokia should have put the <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags around it because that what he was being ..sarcastic.Quote:
Leave em on! I like having a reputation.. It is the only place on the planet I will ever have one...
He could care less about the "points" He has some tutorials on another site that give him all the credibilty that he needs.
er....just a heads up.
I would prefer to have the reputation turned off and have the moderators moderate the threads, but that is just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarrySmith
Thanks for the clarification, we never would've figured it out without you.
+1 postcount
Actually, I did PM and offer to help with my 'so-called' experience, since I build communities and other sites like this for a living. So did Donkey Punch afaik. Actually did it before I posted to this thread the other day. And you are who?Quote:
Originally Posted by chizra
Who do I think I am? Well, I've been here way too long and it seems to be the same thing over and over again throughout the years. I've been a senior member, been an addict, just been there, done that, over it. And to tell the truth, right now, I actually kinda feel bad for the developers that are working on this and are pretty much being bitched out for not meeting the communities needs on everyone else's timeline. No one wants to work a ton of hours doing an upgrade to have it thrown in their face because it displeases people due to it being vanilla. It's unfair. I wouldn't want it done to me on a job I'm working on. Hell, I'd just want to drop the database tables and say the hell with you. All I'm saying, is step back, take a deep breath, and think about the time involved as well as the amount of effort it takes to repair and rebuild something.
I think one of the best comments to come out of this thread has been the one (or two, maybe) concerning the downtime, and how this should not have been an issue were there a separate, backed-up version of the site where this new upgrade could be rolled out onto. It's worth the time to create another environment for testing purposes... that way downtime does not occur at all.Quote:
think about the time involved as well as the amount of effort it takes to repair and rebuild something.
Concerning the changes, I don't much care about the looks and feel of the site, though I always did like the AntiPoints system. Call me a noob or whatever, but I enjoyed that aspect of the site... it's what made me stay in the initial days of my joining up to the site (many years ago), and is certainly what made AO so much different in my eyes. If you study psychology, you can see that reward systems have nothing to do simply with "children" or "kids," but is in fact a motivator in all states of life. Why do something if there is little reward? Increase the reward, then you increase the risk (time, in this case) a person is willing to undertake, thus increasing the output.
I think it's interesting what some people are saying about how the site is "free" and how we all should give the folks a break. The site is not free. While we don't pay anything to use it, we see advertisements at the top of every page. The maintainers are paid by the users viewing those ads. This is a company, a business, etc. It is in *their* best interest to keep the community happy, or else what happens? There is no more community, and no more viewers of ads, and no more money, then no more AO at all. So, complaints should be received with open hearts and open minds. If someone is willing to put forth their time and effort to say something, then apparently they care at least somewhat about AO's future (minus those who do just like to see themselves rant). These are people you want to hold onto, and these are those who you want to at least try to please and not shun.
While this may all seem complicated, it's actually quite basic. This is basic business, basic (group and personal) pscyhology, and basic programming standards.
Business: advertisements, community members, etc.
Psychology: the community's reactions, individually and as a whole.
Programming standards: rolling out a site when it hasn't been fully tested on a dev platform.
Fix these three issues, and there will be very little problems the next time an upgrade is deemed necessary.
Because of this upgrade you really shouldn't have any downtime in the future upgrades. You won't be dealing with a version of vB so hacked to hell and so antiquated there is no easy way to deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jehnx
That's not possible folks. Think a minute. The database transfer alone took 48straight hrs to do. What would happen to all those posts made to the live forum, during that time? Would they be transferred? Of course not.
Christina is correct (and thank you). Now that the version isn't a dozen releases old with more customizations than I have hair on my chest, this issue won't occur again. Downtime will be approximately 1 or 2 hrs.
I trust Christina's opinion (since I've known her for a long time), and I trust that JPnyc is not trying to screw anyone over, as it would be against the goals of the site, likely. I appreciate you guys responding; it's certainly possible that I'm underestimating the task of upgrading these forums and whatnot. It's never taken me very long, but my userbases have never been nearly as large as those here at AO.
That said, I hope you guys look at the other two points I made in my previous post, as they are equally as important as the coding comment, IMO.
Jehnx, but consider the work in the project you are working on, and even then, there is a lot of work with that too. Lots of bugfixes, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by jehnx
No job like that is easy.
*Hugs Jehnx long time no see man.
We are ignoring your other two points completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by jehnx
/laughs j/k
It's been a long time *huge hugs*
(weren't you banned? or is the chemo really eating my brain?)
It really had very little to do with the size of the DB. It had more to do with the fact that vbulletin stopped supporting the version we had here YEARS ago, and so the script wasn't intended to import from that version to begin with. Added to that was the fact that some of the customizations made to this site included changes to the database tables themselves, and you have a situation where fields must be imported individually with custom written scripts. That's what we had to do.
Now with the site finally migrated and working, now there is tons of work getting everything tidied up and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
That is a ton of work too. :(
DP, Christina: *hugs!*
Yeah, I was banned at one point a long time ago, but eventually they let me back in. I don't know why, actually, hehe.. either way, I only pop in about once per 4 months or so now-a-days.
I hope you guys are doing well, but I guess we should probably go to PM after this one so we don't ruin the thread, hehe. I've definitely missed both of you.. :)