Christianity

Greetz.
Stflook> hopefully you know where I stand on this so you are prepared for me to possibly be kinda harsh... but I will make it as painless as possible... at least to begin with.

God sent Jesus (his only Son) to earth to die for our sins. *fumbles around for Bible... it's here somewhere... ah found it*

Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Also, if you know the Bible at all, you know that God wants more than anything to have an intimate relationship with every single person.

Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." We've all sinned, so that means that we're all condemned to Hell. How can God have a personal relationship, and why would we want it, if we're all gonna die and go to Hell anyway? So God sent his Son to die for our sins so that we will be forgiven of those sins, no matter how bad they may be, and that allows us to a) have a deeply intimate relationship with God, and b) after having that relationship, we can go to Heaven to live with Him for forever.

Just to annoy you *cough* I'm going to site yet more scripture from Romans, this time from chapter 5 verses 6-8:

Quote:

---

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

---

We don't have the strength, faith, or general goodness that it requires to get into Heaven on our own; it's impossible. But Jesus Christ died for us, bridging the gap between us and God. It can be considered honorable to die for a man who has lived a good life, and has done good to everyone he encounters. And it happens occasionally. But Jesus died for us while we were still sinners. He had no reason to do this, except due to His love for each of us as an individual.

And for any of you who think that there is no support for Christianity, I dare you to read Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. At the time that he wrote it, he was trying to disprove Christianity. But he soon realized that, through trying to find the loopholes in it, it simply made much more sense for Christianity (and thus God, Jesus, and all the teachings of the Bible) to exist. It's kinda a difficult read, but I dare all of you to read it. But your probably too scared to do so, because you'll probably prove yourself wrong when you read it.

Stflook, as much as I like talking to you, you made a big mistake with this post. And I would be absolutely terrifically happy if someone were to PM me asking me more about my beliefs, so please feel free to do so.

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

Ooh, another thing. Stflook, the reason that Christianity has been bashed so much is because, as you yourself said, it is different. It is true. Truth hurts. People don't like it when they're being told that they can no longer live the way that they do. And that's why many of you will no longer like me; either your jealous because I have something you don't, or you're mad because I'm saying that you can't keep living like there is no God, because there is. I've had several very personal encounters with the power of God, and nothing will ever be able to erase those memories. I can't find the exact reference at the moment, but the Bible says that the world will reject it's teachings. Also, the world will reject those who are not of this world, ie, those who have recieved the gift of salvation. So, maybe that explains why I'm such a reject...

Again, someone please reassure me that I'm not alone, or flame me for this. I'd be honored to be flamed for standing up for my beliefs.

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by PhirePhreak
Ooh, another thing. Stflook, the reason that Christianity has been bashed so much is because, as you yourself said, it is different. It is true. Truth hurts. People don't like it when they're being told that they can no longer live the way that they do. And that's why many of you will no longer like me; either your jealous because I have something you don't, or you're mad because I'm saying that you can't keep living like there is no God, because there is.

---

PhirePhreak> If the Christianity's teachings were considered the truth, then how come various popes waged war in the name of god? How come those tens of thousands of good christians who knew the truth of "God's words" went against those directions and attacked Islam (what was then under Turkish control)? They killed thousands of people in nothing more than a political struggle.
I personally believe that religion is a personal thing, and if it works for you great, but don't enforce your beliefs on others.

Quote:

---

I've had several very personal encounters with the power of God, and nothing will ever be able to erase those memories. I can't find the exact reference at the moment, but the Bible says that the world will reject it's teachings. Also, the world will reject those who are not of this world, ie, those who have recieved the gift of salvation. So, maybe that explains why I'm such a reject...

Again, someone please reassure me that I'm not alone, or flame me for this. I'd be honored to be flamed for standing up for my beliefs.

---

I think anyone who would flame you for believing something is very silly, but someone could very well question those beliefs. Personally the blind faith crap never really did anything for me. I question my beliefs all the time, and I know the answers to questions I'm likely to be asked. That knowledge brings me the stability and understanding that I believe what I believe for, what I consider, good reason.

If you care, I do not see 'god' in the traditional sense that many people do. I see 'god' more as the caretaker of the universe. God is that universal constant that keeps things moving, that provides us with a functioning universe. God doesn't particularly care if an asteroid smashes into earth killing the 6 billion people on it -- that's not god's job. God's job is to keep things running IMO.

Anyhow, before I get on a rant, I'll end this post. ;)

[WebCarnage] - I've heard this form of logic. You say you create your own form of heaven. Let's see now. That would make you a god, at least, in your own eyes. Someone here at work said something to that effect recently. "we just make our own reality and if we want to, we make our own god".

Sounds so advanced doesn't it? Yet the same thing has been done for thousands (millions) of years in history by many peoples. This god making business has been around for a very long time indeed.

Bottom line synopsis - Believe in yourself and be your own god, or build one out of some wood or metal (or even a career, lifestyle etc) or believe in a God you don't see.

All three choices require equal faith. Where you put it depends on you.

stflook - post those pix ;) Been approached by many religions actually.

redsdemon - I think men and women can have equal respect for each other (and still fit God into the picture.. Or not) it simply requires effort. It was deep.

I don't think stflook should be discouraged from asking questions about what he believes.

chsh - I disagree. If an asteroid smashed into us by your own definition God would be concerned at the very least by why it went awry.

One other thing. Science can be trusted 100%? What nonsense, Science changes it's view with each new revision of observation. Just look at the dinosaur aging thing, it must have changed for the various ages and times 20 times in my life alone. I trust no scientist.

One observation I have made.
Many people are very touchy and defensive
whenever religion is discussed.
They retreat into the old slogan,
"don't push your beliefs on others", but
this is not possible or desirable.

It is an inescapable concept. We need ideas
that give some order to our thoughts,
guidance in personal ethics and
public policy.

If it isn't religion, some other ideology will
be there trying to win our allegiance,
explain the mysteries, and form the basis
for government.

It is only when people resort to violence
that they cross the line, and ordinary
discussion and peaceful persuasion
become impossible.

When anyone has a monopoly of power,
they are tempted to suppress alternative
philosophies by law.

For example, every political and ideological
faction in a nation wants to capture control
of the public education establishment.
They want to be the ones who decide
what is taught as "TRUTH".

This is why all of my children were educated
at home.
:cool:

Hmm... I'm told not to press my beliefs on others, yet I'm only responding to the original thread started by stflook, who was pressing his belief on others by making fun of my religion... interesting.

Has no one noticed that every religion has its fanatics? Christianity had the "Holy Wars". Islam has terrorists. These are the stereotypical ones. But Christianity has just as many terrorists as Islam... Just because a particular person or group of people happen to belong to a certain religion, it doesn't mean that the religion is defined by what they do.

Oh, and by the way, if any of you had the experiences with God that I have had, you'd be a pretty firm believer as well... And I must confess that I'm always questioning my faith. But every time I pose a question, it is answered in the affirmative. I truly think that the only way to have a strong faith is to question it. If it stands up to the questioning and doubts, then your beliefs are mostly likely dead on. That's always been my experience.

And I know that eventually someone from the IRC or elsewhere will point out that I'm not exactly living a Christian life. But I have an answer. And this answer has been used for almost two thousand years:

Quote:

---

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. --Philippians 3:12-14

---

And if you'd like to pose a question of my faith, please PM it to me, as I rarely take the time to look through every single post. And I can promise you that I will be able to answer it or at least find an answer somewhere.

God bless,
--PhirePhreak

rcgreen - makes some sense, some ideology will be up for discussion if not religion.
PhirePhreak - don't give up yet - you're making some good points.
Stflook - are you still here?
This thread is interesting. Let's keep it so and not, well, - you know.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by gold eagle
chsh - I disagree. If an asteroid smashed into us by your own definition God would be concerned at the very least by why it went awry.

---

Ahh, that's where you took my meaning wrong. If the ateroid smashed into us, 'god' would probably not care except in that the asteroid did what it should.

Quote:

---

One other thing. Science can be trusted 100%? What nonsense, Science changes it's view with each new revision of observation. Just look at the dinosaur aging thing, it must have changed for the various ages and times 20 times in my life alone. I trust no scientist.

---

Gold eagle, good point, excepting that I believe that the point of what was said was the method, rather than the result. I see religion as a way to self-justify your beliefs; a method by which you can organise your ethics and morals into something that is sensible to you -- a way to explain the observable universe, to an extent. What is science but the attempt by some to explain the observable universe?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rcgreen:
If it isn't religion, some other ideology will be there trying to win our allegiance, explain the mysteries, and form the basis for government.

---

What exactly does religion do towards explaining the mysteries?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by PhirePhreak:
Has no one noticed that every religion has its fanatics? Christianity had the "Holy Wars". Islam has terrorists. These are the stereotypical ones. But Christianity has just as many terrorists as Islam... Just because a particular person or group of people happen to belong to a certain religion, it doesn't mean that the religion is defined by what they do.

---

We're not talking a few thousand people here, we're talking a consistent group of tens of thousands of people that partook of the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc..

Quote:

---

Hmm... I'm told not to press my beliefs on others, yet I'm only responding to the original thread started by stflook, who was pressing his belief on others by making fun of my religion... interesting.

---

One, I never said you were pressing your beliefs, just to beware of it. Two, stating your opinion about something isn't 'pressing your beliefs'. If stflook thinks it's amusing (as bad as it may be to say it), I think he has every right to.

Quote:

---

chsh

We're not talking a few thousand people here, we're talking a consistent group of tens of thousands of people that partook of the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc..

---

People follow leaders. Look how many followed Hitler in World War II. I doubt all those thousands believed in what they were doing, and if they did, I don't think they realized it. And even if that, I don't think they thought they had much choice.

Quote:

---

PhirePhreak

I've had several very personal encounters with the power of God, and nothing will ever be able to erase those memories.

---

Somethings can't be understood until they happen to you. Even then, you have to be aware they are happening, and then it's not always something you'd like to try to explain. I didn't really need to reply to that, just wanted to say I know what you mean.

Quote:

---

Dr Toker

There is no such thing as a holy war.I don't care who is fighting it. When Jesus came for us, he said to turn the other cheek.

---

I totally agree! But these things happen, and then the religion is blamed for the actions of those who disgraced it. If you don't want to like something, as many people choose to dislike Christianity and such, its easy to sieze an example like the crusades and say, "This is Christianity." Well it's not, and the people who say that are just hiding behind an illusion.