Random question

a few thoughts on the matter at hand:

1. (for background) I'm non-denominational Christian, and I'm not going to believe in any specific version of it until I read the hebrew old testament, the greek new testament, the arabic Koran (I think that's the one with Allah). I am also a scientist at heart, so I will rarely believe totally in anything without definitive proof, question everything, and will alter my view on (provably valid) new evidence

2. Prove to me that your religion is true. Use everything you can, because you will probably need to. If you want, you could consider it an attempt to win a new convert if you want. (this includes my own religion)

3. For those who like to bash the bible in its entirety, think about this: an extremely large number of historians and scientists (even those who don't believe) consider the bible one of the most accurate and complete histories of the ancient world in its region(s).

4. (In correlation with #3) The bible has a strong historical, archaelogical, and scientific base (discounting the truly religious parts of it). In fact, even the ark's(the one that held the ten commandments) powers have an entirely plausible explanation: the instructions describe a large capacitator. Also, many of the places mentioned have been unearthed/discovered, and other archaelogical artifacts give evidence of the events in the bible (I believe there are Roman records mentioning Jesus' persecution/death). Most of the world has records (in one form or another) of the Great Flood, at approx. the same time the bible says it happened.

5. The translation errors from hebrew/greek to latin to english have likely mutilated the original text of the bible. Translating languages involves a large amount of interpretation, as different cultures rarely have words with the exact same meaning. To add to that, the translators were trying to fit it into a rather strict pattern (poetic verse with old english). For example: moses may not have parted the red sea, the true translation is the sea of reeds. (by the way, the parting, along with the plagues, was likely due to a tidal wave from a large volcanic eruption in the mediterranean sea and natural occurences disrupted by it)

6. Look up the bible codes in google (and make sure you read both sides of the argument)

7. Anyone else notice how Islam/Muslim contains large parts of the Christian bible contains large parts of the Jewish old testament?

8. No offense intended, but I find that the Catholic religion is filled with BS rules created by a power-hungry church. If anyone can show me good reasons for many of the rules and practices they have imposed, (at standards less than #1) I will respectfully retract this statement.

9. Don't think about what the bible says about gays, what does it say about how to treat them?

10. As part of my studies in science, I have come across some rather interesting information about how many personality traits (including homosexuality) can be in part(not in whole) attributable to genetics. Interestingly, the more older brothers from the same mother a guy has, the more likely he is to be gay. In fact, each older brother increases the probability by roughly 1/3. (this is attributable to an immune type reaction to the (male) baby in the (female) mother's womb, that increases with each successive male, decreasing the masculinisation of the brain (you see, babies are in fact parasites, and try to take over the mother's body)).

11. Why does this seem to be a largely Christian discussion? Is it because Christians are more prejudiced than others? probably...though I'd like to see some from other religions speak their mind (atheists not included)

12. The Muslim/Islamic religion was (when it was created) much more accepting than Christians have been the majority of the time they've been around. Mohammed actually told them to be tolerant of the other religions.

13. Supposedly, the hebrew torah has been so faithfully and accurately copied since it was first written down, that only 7-11 characters maximum have changed. I think the difference between the current version and the dead sea scrolls is only 0-3 characters.

14. I think this is enough for now, please post your thoughts on this, TIA

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Originally posted here by JP
Greetings:

Well then, I will gladly burn in hell, if it does turn out to exist. I'll never apologize or ask for forgiveness for the love that I feel towards my life partner, nor for the ways that I express that love. ::flagprid

Besides, if hell does exist, and I do get sent there, I'm just the type of person that might be able to take it over, and make it my own! muahaha!

:firedevil

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Life is quite short. Each of us will go, alone, to our destination.
We will all discover, by personal experience, what lies beyond.
As long as you are confident to face that journey, I am satisfied that
I have fulfilled my debt to my fellow man by pointing you to the
gospel "as I understand it".

As I understand it, "the book" is reliable. You can read it at your
leisure, and interpret it as you please, but I do invite you
to Read it for yourself

Faqt--I want to answer your question about the genetic predisposition toward homosexuality. Well, actually I don't want to answer it, because I don't have an answer. It's one of the most confusing issues there is to me. I don't know, and I don't understand.

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Nope, he didn't make a conscious decision to be this way, he was born (created by god) with this aspect already in place, spends every day of his life dealing with it the best he can, and would change it if he could. He can nomore decide to be straight then a straight person can decide to be gay.

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I agree, I don't see how a person would choose to have a lifestyle that opens them up to any number of degrading and unfair stereotypes and falsehoods. I don't claim to understand anything about it, and I don't know what I would do if the situation were put upon me.

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9. Don't think about what the bible says about gays, what does it say about how to treat them?

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I also completely agree with this statement....you never ever have the right to judge someone else's lifestyle.

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The responsibility for children falls to (ready for this....) THE PARENTS. If your child is young enough that you think seeing gay couples will effect them, then why the hell are they at a kissing contest? Perhaps there are too many parents willing to pass off responsibility of their children.

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Again, I agree completely. I am a parent of a six year old son, and I am constantly monitoring what he sees and does to whatever extent I am able....I think this is a whole other can of worms, though, and could have it's very own thread...lol

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand homosexuality from the biblical perspective. I don't think it's a choice....I think you are born what you are, and you can't do anything about it. My perspective as a Christian is to NOT JUDGE the way another person lives their life, and to do the best I can to live life the way I understand it to be right. I don't understand how God could create homosexuals, and then condemn the lifestyle. So, again, I think the best thing that can be done is to live an open-minded, compassionate life, and to treat others the way you want to be treated.

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11. Why does this seem to be a largely Christian discussion? Is it because Christians are more prejudiced than others?

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I really hope not....I try not to be, because that is NOT what is taught in the bible.

Gee this got really long on me all of a sudden....sorry, but I hope I've accomplished expressing my feelings on this subject.

Deb :D

I was, and still am, brought up to accept everyone for who they are, no matter how different from me. So I have no problems with people being gay. The bible teaches to love ones neighbour as you love yourself (Luke 10:27) so you should accept someone for being homosexual as you accept yourself for being hetersexual.


PS: i also believe that people are homosexual because they are born that way.

Everybody makes choices, some choose to live a straight life, others live other life styles.
However, I did know a kid growing up named Mikey. While we would go play 'guns' and GI Joe, he would be over at my lil girlfreinds house playing Barbies. I swear I knew this kid was gay before he did. Anyways years down he road we all had grown into rebelliouse teenagers.
And there we were chillin on the corner and I started telling him how I did'nt judge him for the way he was. I did tell him I didnt think it was the right way to live, but I told him if he ever needed a freind I would be there. And I was, when all the little kids found out, they made fun of him in an awfull way, tied him up in the field, and left him out there. (We were a mischievious groupe of kids) Anyways that made me so mad, I found out went out there and untied him fom the tree. We then proceeded to roll a joint. He needed to chill out.

I could really care less, seeing as how some would look down on how I live my life. I use Marijuana, many Christians look down on me for it. But the way I look at it, only God can judge me on that level. Only God has the right to tell me how to live, coming from a fellow man, it lacks integrity, and intells hypocracy. So I leave it in the hands of The Father.

Thanks for understanding, I didnt want anyone to think I was a homophobe simply based on the fact that I am a Christian.

Before I start my reply properly I would just like to say that I do not look down upon those who have faith or belittle them in any way - much the opposite, as I have no faith I admire those who can believe in something so whole-heartedly - such belief is a difficult thing to sustain without the ridicule that is directed to many people of faith by those who do not have the same beliefs or simply none at all.....

Right sorry about that but I just thought I'd get that bit clear before I started my reply to the question possed....

IMHO christianity has a very good base of ideas - understanbding, love, thoughtfullness, caring for each other - but it is ruined by man's own inputs and interpretations of it....its a good idea ruined by a host of contradictions and power hungry leaders

If people could return to the basics of it I feel that this world could be a much better place.....
I once came across in a wiccan bible one simple commandment which I think can sum up exactly what I mean......

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Do what thy will but hurt thee none

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Arg! I'm rambling again and not getting my point across >_<; right what I'm trying to say is

[nutshell]Homosexuals are simply showing affection and love for a speacil person in their lives, why should we regard this as wrong? By doing so they do not in any way adversely affect anyone else. The bible teaches of understanding and love for thy neighbour - why should this not apply to a homosexual person?[/nutshell]

I hope someone out there understood what I was trying to get at???

v_Ln

I respect all of your opinions-some of them I agree, and some of them I don't agree with, and then some I agree partially with.

from what i know u can take 1 scripture and 10 priests and get a different meaning
from every one of them.
i personally do not have a religion nor believe i should. to each his own live and let live.
if u did some research you would find hundreds of religions that were phased out mostly
because one religion believed it was the more rightious one so the other had to be exterminated
for all u religious buffs ask yourself if my family were another religion other than what they are would i be likewise. 8 out of 10 if answered honestly would say yes.
all im trying to say is if you are catholic and your family is also
what if before they were put on this earth instead of catholic chnged jewish or what have you
more than likely you would have grown up jewish or what ever.

I do believe in a higher power but not religion. I do like panthiesm. I have a problem with god having a probvlem gettin money. most of my family are religious and the church they attend post your contributions for every one to see. now tell me that aint a bunch of bull.
by the way they are catholic.
Really all u know is what ur taught plain and simple. so in effect your beliefs are really not your own.

I have to say this is a good thread...

I am a Unitarian Universalist (www.uua.org) and I don't tell others how to live, and I except others not to tell me how to live....

If someone is gay, and they want to kiss in public... let em! Who cares? Even if you believe it is wrong (I don't) to be gay (or whatever you think is wrong), you seeing it will not send YOU to hell, so what do you care? I have never understood the obseesion that some people (many christian and muslim [think OBL] but I am sure other religions too) have with the sins committed by others. If I or JP or anyone else want to go to hell, WHY DO YOU CARE? Why is it such a big deal?

Anyway, thats my rant....not directed at anyone on AO, just at certain people in the 700 Club...

Four Words:

DOWN WITH ORGANIZED RELGION!!!