I think JCMB's idea is good. AntiPoints are not a good system of discrimination.
But we also need to attract people with good knowledge.
How?
euh... I don't know. Perhaps with ads in others forums! LOL
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I think JCMB's idea is good. AntiPoints are not a good system of discrimination.
But we also need to attract people with good knowledge.
How?
euh... I don't know. Perhaps with ads in others forums! LOL
Care to elaborate on that one? Moderators aren't supposed to know more than the members (I know less about computers than a lot of people here): a referee at a football match isn't supposed to be a better player than the footballers themselves...Quote:
Originally posted by preep
u kick ppl out who know more than the moderators, i aint doin nothin for AO, as ao does nothin for me.
AO does nothing for you? Not for you in particular, no (although you have the possibility to get yourself an AO-email-addy...).
JP gaves us a site with a lot of potential: fast servers, loads of space, lots of possibilities... It's OUR job to use that enourmous potential, not JP's. Suggestions? Use the Suggestions-Forum.
AO is like a city: JP's the mayor. His word is law. The difference with a real city? No elections, but you aren't forced to stay here either.
Some people are chosen to be his aldermen/police squad. Their job is to run AO the way JP tells them to. The difference with a real city? No elections, but you're offered the possibility to complain. They have executive power, not legislative power.
The other 88.405 members are citizens (some respected, some outlaws, some anarchists, most of them part of the grey mass): you are allowed to say your opinion. You won't get banned for saying your opinion - that is, if you don't personally insult the mayor or abuse the system. You are allowed to complain. You are allowed to make suggestions. The only thing you're expected to do is contribute to the site and what it stands for. Not too much asked for, is it?
A lot of potential, and it's our duty to use it...
Most of my experience in programming comes from building homepages. I've been coming here for quite some time now, learning all that can, I signed up at the beginning of the month because I thought I could find some kind of mentor to look to for help with programming languages to build programs and whatnot. I have no experience with writing a program, and I've seen some really awesome and helpful programs like one for starkingdoms.com that helped you to distribute your points and soldiers. Those are the kind of things that I want to do. And yes, I search google, but you're not going to find me asking any questions that pertain to programming, because all I see is people flaming one another. So I'm taking a second approach and am helping members with their homepages, getting to know them.
I'm full of 'stupid' questions about things, things I'm sure to be flamed for. Everyone starts somewhere, and the things that may seem simple to one person, aren't simple for a person starting out. I have better protection on my computer now, and I guess my biggest goal would be learning how to help people who have security holes in their programs, I think it would be awesome to send a patch to someone and say.....Hey, problem fixed, glad I could help you. But that doesn't seem to be the general opinion here. Everyone bitches about one thing or another, they bitch at people who aren't grammatically correct, when it's apparent from their post, they obviously don't speak English very well, that doesn't mean they are stupid, maybe they just don't know how to word something to appease the AO masses. I promise you one thing in the time I'm here:
You ask a question, no matter whether or not it's 'stupid' or not (yes, even I think some questions are stupid, but that's because I've known the answer, or for some other reason)
I'm not going to flame you for it, I'm just going to answer you, treat you like a normal human being instead of chasing you out by calling you a scriptkiddie. Even if you ask me how to hack Hotmail, I'm going to point you to google, not call you an idiot. It was cool to me once too. It was fun sitting in school on their network and playing with Netbus and shutting down the librarians computer. Flame me, whatever. I'm past that now...everyone has a stage they go through, people grow and learn. Don't judge if you don't want to be judged.
I don't know...just a bunch of rambled on thoughts.
I don't understand. If AO does nothing for you, then why are you here? This is not a "go-away". I'm simply questioning your reasoning and motives. I think the best thing about AO is that it provides a place where like minded people can hang out and talk, ask questions and help each other out. In life, if you don't give, you don't get. It's that simple. Maybe if you did some giving you'd start getting something out of AO.Quote:
u kick ppl out who know more than the moderators, i aint doin nothin for AO, as ao does nothin for me.
Ummm...people seem to be missing the point. We don't need more forums. We have plenty of forums at AO as well as IRC, ICQ and various instant messengers. The point is that, while we have all these ways of communication, not much worthwhile communication is being done. If you don't have people who are willing to act, it doesn't matter how many forums there are. Nothing will get done. What we need are people willing to start projects and write tutorials. Let's get to the root of the problem instead of avoiding the real issue.Quote:
A forum that can only be accessed by members with X amount of AntiPoints is a good idea, and one which has been discussed before, the only problem is that many member's APs tend to fluctuate (e.g. in my case I went from 50 AP to -7, then suddenly shot up to ~300 in the space of four weeks!), so one day you might be able to post in the forum and the next day you might not because someone's given you some neg. AP.
However, I do agree with you on the point that it would be good to have such a forum. How about if it was that if you had ever had 300 AP (at any time), and you currently had over 200 AP, then you could post in the forum. That way, we could get rid of all the idiots who post stupid comments, yet not deny access to anyone who makes sensible suggestions yet has received some neg. AP from someone who doesn't agree with them.
Greetings All:
Excellent post Negative!
Then, I must restate that which has been said in previous posts...Why are you here?Quote:
Originally posted here by preep
u kick ppl out who know more than the moderators, i aint doin nothin for AO, as ao does nothin for me.
If this site does 'nothin' for you, then leave, and find one that does 'somethin' for you.
There will always be people who have a better grasp and/or a higher level of knowledge about certain subjects than others, but that doesn't warrant a 'kick'. What warrants that is probably a bad attitude, exceptional arrogance, abusive speech, or a general disrespect for others. Pure knowledge is no excuse to ban someone from a forum of any kind, and I am assured that that is not the case here. Frankly, I have a very low level of technical knowledge about the topics discussed here, but I am learning...because of my visits to this site. I have never been ridiculed for my lack of knowledge, nor been put on a pedestal for my knowledge of certain subjects. I certainly take more than I give, but isn't that expected of someone who is merely learning? But that is true only in order for me to give more than I take, eventually... Said axiom makes for a great dynamic of learning, actually...
If you feel conspired against, take it up with the 'webmaster', who, for all intents and purposes, is JP...but as far as function of this site goes...it's all of us. If you have a legitimate gripe, be straightforward and tell us about it, don't just bitch about it. One would tend to get better answers that way.
Just a thought...
Ouroboros
ok.. let me explain..
REASONS WHY YOU GET KICKED OUT BY AO MODERATORS IN THE FORUMS OR IRC...
1) Arogance or any form of foul behaviour
2) If you are involved in an illegal activity
3) Go back to number 1
thats all there is to it. AO seldomely KICKS or BOOTS a member off AO..
so far we can just count a handfull of them..
and about IRC... well unfortunately sometimes the OPs are trippin.. but i assure u.. IRC is hell lot more fun.. i mean.. we already have lots of IRC newbies.. and they are all having a great time.
yeah the sites good but i get my tools and "stuff", else where, but the forums are quite good.
but dosnt the points exlcude itehr users a bit, ur juts gonna get ppl asking to vote for tehm all teh time.
im sorry im still a little put off my being booted off irc, i was really enjoying AO untill that happend.
AO was a good site when i statrd, i would like to contribute now and again.
preep
Well, it's been a long time since I've posted anything of any real length so here goes. This is in response to JP and Negative's posts...
First off, when I came to AO (November of 2001) and signed up, I found there to be a lot of pretty intelligent people. Some smart, some cunning, some outright clever in ways I'll never be, and for the most part, friendly as well. I'd sign on the chat room and talk with the same people I've been posting next to. I don't put too much into the whole antipoint thing anymore because it's not a measure of knowledge and it's not a measure of intelligence. It's more like a measure of two things: A) respect from someone who doesn't know you and B) in some cases, how much someone 'likes' you and your posts. This is my opinion btw.
When I posted, I tried to be pretty open with anything I knew, passing it along and whatnot to people that had questions. Out of the 600+ posts I have, 500+ are security related with a few that aren't (like Eating_Scarlett's thread, rofl).
So what happened? What drifted me away? I kept on seeing things like cliques and I kept on seeing things like favoritism plaguing both the forums and the chat room. Nothing irks me more than to try my best to be part of the 'giving back' crowd (which is abysmally smaller than the taking crowd) only to see people get given 'status' positions like Op or a moderator of a forum and I myself haven't seen much from said person. This is NOT an attack on ANYONE who is an op or a forum moderator. I'm over that, but at the same time, I'm over trying to bust ass on giving back to a community where if you're not in the 'IN' crowd, you're overall ignored and to me, that's as much like saying 'We don't really need anything you contribute here'. End result? I take my ball and go home.
I like the people, and I like seeing the new faces in here now. Perhaps we can get out with the old mentality of flame wars and things like that and actually make this into something that's worthwhile to go to every day. I've recommended friends to log on and sign up and they have, because they know that I'm refering them to a site that's good for what they need to learn on. But then they see me leave, they ask why, I tell them, and even THEY say 'Yeah, I've seen some of that'. And these are people with less than 50 posts. They leave too, after that and that's depressing.
Maybe I'll get back into it, maybe I'll start posting more things on security again. There's a thousand maybes but then again, it could happen all over again. I know I've donated tutorials (in fact, I'm redoing the whole sudo tutorial right now just because Operations doesn't know how to really use it and it'd make a great second tutorial to the first), I've donated time, massive amounts of it in the beginning, and now, I've donated money to the "Bail JP out of jail!" thing...time will tell.
And no, I'm not expecting any responses of any detail from anyone on this. I haven't before and I'm not going to be surprised if I don't get any now.
lol wow.. Volrin.. do u have any idea how im preety much impressed with your work? considering that u registered 2 months after i did and u seem to earn preety much a lot of people's respects than i had.. i didnt knew u felt that way lol..
as for the cliques.. hmm i didnt notice any cliques in AO.. as far as i know.. everyone in AO are my clique.. the whole AO crew is my clique.. lol i defend AO like u were my own hommies.. and am serious.. i get people tellin me about bad stuff about AO and i know what they are telling is true, but i still defend AO.
and considering u were one of the people i say "wow, this kidd is fast" i wasnt expecting u'd feel bad about the AO community. i know AO was a lot more better when u first joined.. same here.. but a lot has changed coz most good members (such as u) leave AO.. hence there are less people to teach our aspiring newbies. but im glad ur back.