Big Brother?

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June 25th, 2002, 06:47 AM
8*B@LL

Quote:

Originally posted here by rogue_scholarX
2. No, not due to the card, but the card could be used as a tool to identify those that they need to oppress.

just to expoint on their history of oppression. i'm sure everybody here knows who John Lennon was. well are you all aware that the FBI kept files on him in an attempt to find an excuse to deport him? why you ask? because he didnt like the vietnam war and happened to mention that fact on national TV.

so wait a second here: sombody excersizes thier 1ts ammendment right by saying they dont like something, then they are labeled a threat and the government tries to "neutralize" them by removing them from the country...yea, that sounds about right :rolleyes:
June 25th, 2002, 07:12 AM
gmeister

Re: Big Brother?

There is one flaw in all the governments of the world plans for centralized citizen databases.That flaw is, if man can build it, man can tear it down.
June 25th, 2002, 08:51 AM
orions

Well,

I guess if the govt. wants to keep a centralized infobase, why not! in case of an emergency like greek godess pointed out, it wud serve well, am not aware on the dynamics of ur countires, but in a country like India, where there is a large scale hostile infiltration from countries like pakistan and bangladesh, sounds to me like a good idea.
June 25th, 2002, 04:03 PM
Darkk_Inferno

Quote:

Originally posted here by xTOXICSOLDIERx
All im saying is would you want to be scanned and then judged due to what a card says?

well, wouldnt the information on the card be true? Shouldnt people have the rigth to judge you for your crimes you have committed? besides who's going to judge you? the doctors? Well when a drug dealer gets shot and comes to a hospital they dont turn him away even if they know what he does for a living, they are doctors they save lives.

And it's not like they are going to make it readable by just anyone who gets their hands on teh card they'd probably put encryption on it plus you'd have to buy a special card reader. But i relaly dont see the big deal since the information is out there and accessable right now.

Darkk Inferno
June 25th, 2002, 05:28 PM
GreekGoddess

First of all, who said anything about a tracking device? This is just a card with information stored in it. If you have any reason to be tracked, chances are the government is already doing it without the card.

I think that different areas of the chip can only be accessed by different people. I think that if you're in a hospital, then the hospital information is encrypted in a way that their microchip readers only bring up relevant information. That way, if you're at a bank, they don't know that you have AIDS or any information that is unrelevant to your account there.

It's called convienience. It would be nice to have a centrallized card that stores all of your information. If you've applied for a visa, just carry this card around and let it be scanned to show that you have one.

Better yet, now that a lot of employers are doing background checks, especially in the medical and child care field, you can have your card scanned for that purpose, copies of your fingerprints (yes, they fingerprint you like a criminal in those fields)

Does it need to store your sexual preference? No.
Does it need to store your religion? No.
Will people abuse it? Yes....but what technology hasn't been abused?
June 25th, 2002, 07:18 PM
jaguar291

Quote:

Originally posted here by GreekGoddess
First of all, who said anything about a tracking device? This is just a card with information stored in it. If you have any reason to be tracked, chances are the government is already doing it without the card.

Exactly what she said, if the government wants to track you, they don't need a National I.D card to that.

Quote:

Originally posted here by GreekGoddess
I think that different areas of the chip can only be accessed by different people. I think that if you're in a hospital, then the hospital information is encrypted in a way that their microchip readers only bring up relevant information. That way, if you're at a bank, they don't know that you have AIDS or any information that is unrelevant to your account there.

Another great point by GreekGoddess, this card would show relevant information to the people who need it.

Quote:

Originally posted here by Darkk_Inferno
well, wouldnt the information on the card be true? Shouldnt people have the rigth to judge you for your crimes you have committed? besides who's going to judge you? the doctors? Well when a drug dealer gets shot and comes to a hospital they dont turn him away even if they know what he does for a living, they are doctors they save lives.

What I've been trying to say the whole time. The information on the card would be the truth and if you've been an idiot and have a bad record on the card then that's your fault, not mine. And Darkk_Inferno said it best, who would judge you?? A doctor? A baker? Come'on get serious, this card would just be more convient and would help you out in times.
June 25th, 2002, 11:46 PM
rogue_scholarX

Yes, but still your points are moot, you have yet to submit any factual evidence that this is a good idea. We have cited examples in history where the government has taken advantage of what seem's like a 'good idea' at first. And all of your 'advantages' to the card are complete assumptions. You don't get to choose who see's the card's information, you don't choose what is put on the card! You have No Evidence what they are putting on the card, and none that it could even be used to help someone at a hospital.

Quote:

Originally posted here by Darkk_Inferno
well, wouldnt the information on the card be true? Shouldnt people have the rigth to judge you for your crimes you have committed? besides who's going to judge you?

Already people begin to assume that if you are against people rifling through your history, that you have something to hide. In truth who would judge me? I don't care, I will be judged once when it matters and none of you have the ability to sway the decision in that matter.
June 26th, 2002, 01:58 AM
jaguar291

Quote:

Originally posted here by rogue_scholarX
Yes, but still your points are moot, you have yet to submit any factual evidence that this is a good idea. We have cited examples in history where the government has taken advantage of what seem's like a 'good idea' at first. And all of your 'advantages' to the card are complete assumptions. You don't get to choose who see's the card's information, you don't choose what is put on the card! You have No Evidence what they are putting on the card, and none that it could even be used to help someone at a hospital.

I can't provide factual evidence that this National I.D card is a good idea but you also cannot provide factual evidence that the National I.D card is a bad idea. And yes, all my advantages are complete assumptions but aren't all your disadvantages also assumptions. Like you said, "You don't get to choose who see's the card's information, you don't choose what is put on the card! You have No Evidence what they are putting on the card." I also agree that in the past good ideas have had their share of negative outcomes but doesn't everything have an opposite end to it? And haven't we dealt with the "good ideas" that were actually bad in the past? Why not give the card a chance and see how it turns out? I'm assuming the government would do this for the better not for the worse like you think, so I still stand by my original statement, the card would be a great idea and I would like to see it in the near future.
June 26th, 2002, 03:37 AM
Syini666

I would definately be interested in seeing how the ID card system is implemented and works in other countreis before it is used in the US. If its anything like the prohibition of private owernership of firearms in Australia, then I don't think it will work.

As for medical info stored on a card, there is a downside. Some of you may not believe me, but I have it on account from people who have worked as paramedics, If you are in a car accident and have severe and life threatening injuries, the paramedics are higly likely to NOT save your life if you have an organ donor symbol on your license. Just Imagine if they can tell that you have a terminal illness that limits you to two more years of GOOD life before dying, they would probably just figure to let you die then to save time and "help" somone in need of a transplant or some other medical procedure.

On the topic of moral rights and the governemnt, Taxes Are Stealing!, and no one can argue otherwise, because we (in the us) get absolutely no say in taxes, and if we decide we don't want to pay, we get tossed in jail, so basically taxes are "collected" by force, which equates to stealing in my book.
June 26th, 2002, 04:35 AM
jaguar291

Quote:

Originally posted here by Syini666
As for medical info stored on a card, there is a downside. Some of you may not believe me, but I have it on account from people who have worked as paramedics, If you are in a car accident and have severe and life threatening injuries, the paramedics are higly likely to NOT save your life if you have an organ donor symbol on your license. Just Imagine if they can tell that you have a terminal illness that limits you to two more years of GOOD life before dying, they would probably just figure to let you die then to save time and "help" somone in need of a transplant or some other medical procedure.

Good point, but for some reason I doubt the reality of this happening. I'm about 99% sure that paramedics are required to do anything possible to save your life.

Quote:

Originally posted here by Syini666
On the topic of moral rights and the governemnt, Taxes Are Stealing!, and no one can argue otherwise, because we (in the us) get absolutely no say in taxes, and if we decide we don't want to pay, we get tossed in jail, so basically taxes are "collected" by force, which equates to stealing in my book.

I agree taxes are a form of stealing but I think some are due to the government, public services and other tax funded organizations are needed but some taxes, like the ones on food and clothes should be waived.

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