Slavery reparations

Unfortunately Brad racism is anything but only in America.

Indeed one of the bright lights is that racism in America has had so little violence associated with it as opposed to other places in the world. Many of our current conflicts are race based although they are often portrayed as religion. For the really horrendous acts of race violence lately we need only look at Bosnia (I know they say Christians vs Muslim but it is really Serbs vs. Croats) or Rwanda. I don't think I even need to mention Israel which again I do not believe is truly religious in nature but is racist in nature. The suppression of the Khurds, the tension between Pakistan and India.

People seem to want to blame religion but if you look at the religion there is nothing to base that blame on. The teachings of the muslim faith are peace, dedication and tolerance. Christianity teaches love, forgiveness and acceptance. Even though both religious books speak of slavery neither condones it nor supports it (and certainly the Bible's description of slavery was Whites owning Whites for the most part). This is one reason why I do not like the term "Radical Muslim Extremists" and would prefer the truth "Radical Middle Eastern Extremists". While some may pervert the Muslim faith for their own racist ends that should not be used to teach the world to hold Islam in contempt. Remember many pervert the teachings of the Bible to perpetuate the insipid belief in "White Supremacy". I do not want people thinking badly about my religion because of the "Radical Stupid Red Necks".

I must admit that I would have absolutely no problem with the Federal Government offering a formal apology to the African Americans and the Indians for its treatment of them in the past. While this would mostly be symbolic I cannot see any reason it should not be done.

Also I would have to refute the argument about a White Men's month. As one person I heard on the radio stated when talking about the Race Days (African American Day, Hispanic Dry etc.) in Tulare's Fair stated when asked about when they would have a White Day, "All the other days are White days." The reason there is no White history month is because most of the history taught in schools, written about, and portrayed on the TV channel is white history. As a lover of Military History there has been some change in this and to truly study military history you study many non-Eurocentric cultures.

However, where many people see racism getting worse I think it has gotten better but that we need to keep fighting to make it even better. I am not sure the government is the best place to do this (although I still think a formal apology would be an excellent start). But, I am not sure Government programs ever really help out those they are meant to. Certainly not efficiently. That is my main concern about Government sponsored programs.

I still point to the Asian community that overcame obstacles exactly like the ones facing the African American community today. There are ways to pull yourself out without relying on a government that is not, has never been, and never really will be able to solve the issue. I am in agreement with most of the African Americans posting here that you have a harder time than I do. I truly believe that while it has gotten better there is a long way to go. I believe whites that whine about reverse discrimination are far more pathetic than any African American I have ever dealt with.

I also believe we should strive to look at the positive while working to correct the negative. One of the problems I see, even in these posts, is that often the stance taken by the African Americans posting here are taken as personal assaults by the Whites and as whining by the Native Americans. The posts by the Whites are seen as defensive and an attempt to elude the issues. But I see strides forward. As was stated 40 years ago African Americans sat on the back of the bus, separate but equal (which was anything but equal) was the law in many states, Jim Crow laws were not in place but operated as though they were, and violence was common and ignored in many places.

Some of this still goes on but things have gotten better. Thanks to brave individuals (not all of whom were African Americans) segregation is more in the past than in the present, when violence erupts the government is far more likely to investigate vigorously and prosecute than ever before. African Americans hold more seats in Congress and the Senate and have more Governors and Mayors than at any time in history. Also, more African Americans are running companies, opening businesses and being listed in the ranks of millionaires (and not because of pro sports or music) than ever before. The fact that Jackson, Sharpton, and Farrakhan can debate their views in relative safety is a positive sign of the times. Their predecessors, whom I admire far more than them, all too often succumbed to the assasins bullet. On a slightly off topic I do not approve of the current trend to humanize heros like Dr. Martin Luther King by discussing his private life. He was a man who stood tall against fearful times and deserves to be remembered with honor.

Finally, I really appreciate hearing the views from people of other nations. I read the BBC and other foreign news sources to get a less American biased opinion about things. So proactive I don't think you should be shy at all. However I disagree with your assessment. Things are still harder for African Americans and Native Americans here but they are better than they have ever been and they are continuing to get better although the progress is not as rapid as I would hope and pray for.

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Originally posted here by proactive

And I don't think there's no use saying "take pride in your country", that's not gonna work. When your father & grandfather worked in a burger-joint and lived in the crummy neighbourhoods, there's no chance you're gonna go to Harvard. That's like one in a million. The rests gonna be stuck right where they're father & grandfather were. And the numbers of people who don't fit into society is growing and growing.

My point is that the American goverment has to actively do something about this problem, not just sit back and wait for better times because they're not coming. Building more jails is not gonna help either. Somehow these people has to be pulled back into society, and that's gonna cost you your tax money. And perhaps a few of your principles about free enterprise. What I'm suggesting is things like recognizing slavery as a crime done to the black americans by the Goverment. Paying for work-training, free kindergarten for people that can't afford it, creating jobs for everyone & see to it that they pay off. Nobody's gonna work for nothing. Stuff like that.

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That seems to be one of the problems.....people want the government to pay all these things to make up for slavery that was done by the wealthy 100 + years ago. I myself don't want my tax dollars going to put someone else's kids through daycare (I have enough fun paying for my own...). Bad enough the morons here voted to use government money to build a stadium instead of paying their teachers, police and fire reasonable wages. Something happen to one of your ancestors way back when? Gee that sucks...get over it. It happens to everyone in one form or another at one time or another.

Everyone is given the same chance to do something with their lives....some people do indeed have it easier than others but that is a very small percentage. You don't need to have alot of money to study hard, or work hard. If people would get off their lazy asses and take some responsibility for their own lives then they would not have to live in the ghetto....or work in the burger joints. If one place discriminates against you because of your color, sexual orientation, whatever then you either need to take legal action, find a new place to work, or both. I've been discriminated against myself (clean cut white male) for having tatoos (that are hidden by a t-shirt). Boss saw them one day while I was changing out of my uniform and he never liked me from that day onward. So I went and got a better job.

The government isn't the one holding people back, the people do a good enough job of that themselves. And while they are doing it many of them use cheap excuses like 'it's the government's fault', 'corporate america', 'he's just a racist'. If you let that hold you back then it is just as much your fault as theirs.

there are plenty of "white" people have have since come to this country, or have no slaveowners in their backgrounds and plenty of "black" people who have since come to this country or have no slaves in their backgrounds.

Logic check required. All "white" people owe all "black" people money? Intellectual dishonesty is at work here.

You know what this **** sickens me and pisses me off. This whole poor me attidude is disguesting. This is america and you have to work hard to get your 40 acres and mule. And racism works both ways trust me I know. The problem is this country believes only the white people are predjudice towards the black man. Well since I live in a predominantly black community and I being one of the few white people I have to deal with **** all the time. My house gets egged every halloween. When I was younger I used to get beat up all the time only because I was white and plus my house has gotten spray painted by *******s also. I myself hold no predjudices towards any race, sexual preference or whatever but I seriously don't think we should have to pay people because they were enslaved. My native american ancestors were enslaved but do you think I give a ****??? NO! It's over and it's history. All you whiny people with poor me attidute can honestly suck my dick including you Nth Man. Why does america owe you anything??? I highly doubt you have had to deal with racism as bad as I have. But I don't bitch and whine about it, it has only made me a stronger person and set an example for me not to be like that. Well I think this idea is complete bullshit and if anyone has a problem with my post please let my know. Well that's just my 2 cents all.

thanx techiechick for reminding me my spelling sux :) my resume' may didn't have any typos:) i didn't get the position because it was a clique thing(dame it I ended my sentance with a preprositional phrase dame i spell sentence wrong too!) hmmm subtrace 5 points for not using the proper puncuation mark also

I just have one short comment,

All I want is to have a free America, without quota's, without spaces for ethnicity on tests/exams/applications, and most importantly equality amongst physical traits.

One thing to add aswell, it sickens me to death that universities, employers, and government facilities, hire based upon race to meet quotas, and to make it *fair*. Pardon me, but how the hell is it fair to hire based upon race?! What did I miss!?

i have to say i agree with gold eagle, no one in my family EVER had anything to do with slavery, except for being one ever time anyone wanted to see what was on the other side of the steppes.

BUT

After reading all the posts, i've learned allot from every one but nth man, who just pisses me off. darkguardian's link was very enlightening, and i now think this will be an interesting case to watch. Did General Sherman's pledge, revoked by jackson (andrew not jessie) have any validity to it and will the army via .gov have to live up to it. What happened did directly affect every black person in this country.

Before i read this thread, all i could see is al sharp-tongued walking away wearing a big **** eating grin. Counting a large roll of cash, saying heee heee, heee! Put into a fund to help disadvantaged black families, is a mule of a different color. maybe the idea of land or rather housing (not in urban areas) could do away with the 'hood', which IMO is the biggest hindrance to underprivileged blacks. but my opinion isn't well thought out.

the government has done nothing but screw up everything in their attempts at doling out equality. if we did this to begin with we'd all be allot better off instead of wasting money through bureaucracy.

This will be interesting, but i still ain't giving nobody **** :-)

(anybody who says anything about double negatives suks. i use them because i like them)

Tedob1, I've learned from this thread too. For one thing, racism is wrong under ANY circumstances. But I've also had it driven home that racism is not racist, as in it doesn't manifest itself exclusivly in the 'white man'. The fact that racism doesn't recognize race qualifies as a paradox, doesn't it?

Ok. The way I see this is:

The US government:

who did not capture slaves (other African tribes did)
who did not transport slaves ( private companies mostly from Europe did)
who did not own slaves (private individuals did)
who outlawed the practice and had a civil war over it
now has to pay reparations over it?

I am a 1st generation born in America, descending from Scottish coal miners and
French Canadian trappers. My taxes should pay what?

Trace the companies and individuals responsible for your plight, go after them.
Otherwise, it's deep pocket legislation, kinda like suing fast food restaraunts for supersizing your lunch.

In Germany, it was the government that oppressed the Jews, that is why reparations are in order. The Americans of Japanese heritage that were deprived of their land and livlihood during WW2 were also oppressed by a government, thats why reparations were in order. The Native Americans have a strong case for reparations as their oppressor was the US government.

This is my final reply on this subject because I’m close to being banned for my opinions on the topic. The war did not start because of any injustices or treatment of blacks, remember slavery existed on the contientnent (well, for blacks) since (I may be wrong) the 1620's so the general consensus of that most whites (except for the abolitionist’s) was the "Negros were property like a mule or any other beast of burden", 1/3 of a man so no right to vote in an election. This ideology of blacks as property was ingrained in the hearts and souls of everyone (if you continually tell your captives they are property they begin to believe it!)So the idea of blacks escaping must have taken a lot of self reflecting hard work and courage. Who do I trust? where do I go?(a lot of blacks ran south to the Indian territories in Florida and other parts of the country where bounty hunters would not go. swamps, insects, alligators, etc) what do I eat? These thoughts barely scratch the surface of what a person must have had to prepare themselves to go through before they even took that first step. Kind of like an F18 pilot being shot down over the middle of Iraq. No where to run no where to hide. The war between the north and south was over economic division, Agriculture vs. industry and state rights. The abolitionists jump on the ban wagon and began to fuel the flames of war, Plus the election of Lincoln. Why do I feel America owes African Americans and apology and slave reparations? The constitution which was written by the founding fathers guaranteed all citizens life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Where were the slave’s life, liberty and happiness? When was it ever protected? Remember laws such as the Jim Crow laws where passed to deny these pursuits. "But this happened over 137 years ago, my ancestors never owned slaves, blacks should forget about it and work hard like the Asians, and others ethnics groups that are very successful". I guess I'm just another lazy African American... even though I'm working on my bachelor’s degree in Astronomy and working full time again. Would anyone here tell the Jewish community to forget the holocaust? Asking that is like denying someone the right to their feelings. Slave reparation is not some topic that just started with Rev J. Jackson or Al Sharpton; it was and is a fight to right a wrong. If America would have owned up to here responsibility we would not be debating this today. But America did not bring slaves over here or capture slaves, but America did not stop the practice (by the way has anyone check the registry on those ships to see what the captain and crew claimed as their home country?) I'm not angry, I believe in fairness and justice for everyone! If you are wronged by any entity, state of being, person, I believe you should fight for your rights period. shringrila I didn't insult you personally, I was stating my opinion. How does your trailer getting egged on Halloween compare to what happen to the African Americans in Forsyth country Georgia or your uncles getting lynched? You got beat up by black kids, I’m sorry, I went to a predominately all white school (I was 1 of 3) in the 4th grade and remembering the mean teachers and kids. Oh well life goes on. We all have personal stories like yours shrangrila. Fourdc the German government are the individual people and the companies. I already named three in a previous post. it is my belief that if this proposal gets off the ground, it would be more of a trust fund for schools and other grants, etc.