Do you believe in god?

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What kind of god can create a world, but not enough food to support the people on it? What kind of god creates a world where children lose their mothers to cancer/war/violence/whatever else you can come up with?

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That's a reasonable question that I cannot answer, but how is getting rid
of God supposed to solve any of those problems? Maybe the Sunday schools have
done a great disservice by trying to portray God as too nice.

What if God really is indignant and full of wrath against the human race?
What if he is not really a likeable person, from our point of view?
And what if he just refuses to see things our way?

In a war between you and someone who is almighty, who is going
to win?
:cool:

Jeez Deb....I never had you pegged as such a cynic. If you do a little research into the good book you'll find that the devil has dominion over the earth (given to him when he was cast out of heaven)....that God doesn't cause bad things happen because God is incapable of doing evil....it's not in his nature....the things you accuse him of are the result of actions instituted by the minions of hell, not heaven. If God ruled the earth (as he one day will) there would be no disease, starvation, etc.. But God doesn't "rule" the earth....he gives us all free will to choose to follow his path or that of the adversary. Even the blame you place on God is the work of the evil forces that dominate the earth....you are doing just exactly what Satan wants you to do...blame God for his handiwork. Bad things happen to good people....thats part of the price we all pay for living on this "hell" called earth. It's all a test to determine the worthiness of your soul...and Satan caused the test, not God.

Think back to the first time you looked into the eyes of your newborn child....could the devil have created such a perfect loving creature as that? I think not.


God created a perfect world Deb....Satan is the one who *****ed it up.

***warning*** some devout Christians may have a problem with this post. Do not read it if it is likely to offend - that is not my intent. I wish to state now that I'm not anti Christian. I am however not happy to see people arguing with half truths and supposition.****

err... allenb... can you answer one question.... I have read the bible so I must have missed this but specifically (which chapter and verse) does it say that

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the devil has dominion over the earth (given to him when he was cast out of heaven)

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also to say that

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God doesn't cause bad things happen because God is incapable of doing evil

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is total and utter rubbish..... I quote the Bible below to support this ..... (Deb you may want to make a note of this too)

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"And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him." (I Samuel 16:23)

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"And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand." (I Samuel 19:9)

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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

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the first two quotes from the Bible ... specifically state that God sent and EVIL spirit to Saul... the third quote does not need further explanation. I'm not a christian no... but I at least know what I'm arguing about here... the Bible quite clearly states that God is NOT all good - at least God of the OT. Jesus is a slightly different matter I will admit that.... personally I think it was a mistake to include the NT and the OT as one book... but that's my opinion. However can I also point out that Jesus is not all sweetness and light again to quote the Bible

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"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-37)

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And just to add some fuel to this fire... in Revelations it says that Jesus revealed who he was... to quote again

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"I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelations 22:16)

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Do you know who is also commonly called the bright morning star in Christian literature? I'll tell you shall I... Lucifer.... just to give you something to think about.

I'll get off my soapbox now.... if anyone is offended by this post. Well I did warn you at the beginning.


Z

As I said earlier, I believe in God and will not argue or try to prove my faith. However, I keep seeing the "Why does God let us suffer?" question. Maybe both sides can find reassurance or folly - however you see it...in this link. Why Does God Allow Us To Suffer?

Ok I was going to stop on this one but it has gotten just to heated, as a note It does say all that and more Zone, I t can't think of where but it says that God gave man free will something he never even gave to the Angels, Now that is said, WHY?

What is so speial about us tha twe get something that the very first, beings creatd didn't even get, for that matter why would god need servants. This falls back into another topic, Slavery and I goute "Obey your Master"

I will give you the theory of what I believe happended, First there probably is something up there I am not really sure.

At one point in time there was a doubt about things why the sun came up. Why the seasons changed, everything. So man start thinking there is no other answer then that GOD wants it that way. Now, I think that the Greeks had it best with this one they gave a God to every different action, season, mode, everything. Now let me ask you this.

Why?

Simple you have someone to blame. At that point you then have someone to blame for anything that goes wrong.

Now let's think about this God was mad to keep people under control, How you may ask, Well for that I will give you a little BS story.

Tom the king of UH Tata country. Is having trouble with his Kingdom, he keeps getting civil uprising's and the land is crap no food is coming out of the land nothing. So what does Tom do.

Very Simple!

If Tom says that he is God's family, or living being. Who is going to ***** with him think about it. Would you **** with Gods son. That alone got Jesus to be left alone for a while. Now in saying that he is God's great grandson or son or whatever he now has his people wondering why he can't fix the land and food and famine. Well, Tom says you are loyal to me. You have to be loyal to me and no one else but me, and you have to pay tides to me. Every Sunday, if you do all this and more I will give you a perfect place. Well the people do what Tom says and nothing happens they still have crappy land, no food, no water. Nothing so they go back to the King. Why? We have done everything that you have asked for. No my people you haven't you have not worshiped me, you have not paid all that you can to me. I am your God why do you forsake me.

Here we have a problem Tom can't deliver what he said that he would, So what does he do he says that you are not doing what I have asked all I have asked for is for you to worship me that is it. You are no tdoing that, Look at Tima she worshiped me and I gave her a new child.

Worship!

Why?

Why would someone so powerful need anyone to worship them.

Think about it, if God is so powerful why does he need you to worship him Who are you, Who am I?

Why does it matter that we worship him?

These questions I can not answer and if you can you are a better person then me. I have no idea.

Maybe we were never made to understand Gods bidding.

Another Disclaimer. I know I am going to make some people mad e at the stuff I am about to say after this so please don't read un-less you don't get affended.

Why the **** not?

Tell me why I am not god enough to understand what the mighty one has in store for me.

Huh?

**** it. I don't give a damn, I believe more in fate then God, I am bound to have certain things happen so if I am going to die then **** it I am going to die.

**** ***
I am tired if I keep typing I am going to get madder, Deb you were on the right page.

Oh allen it wasn't god that made that child it was the love of two parents. Oh I guess the next question to be asked is how is there love then. Guess what if you can answer that with out saying anything about God, Jesus, angels. Then I will shut up.

Whizkid2300 *Sits back and waits*


Oh yeah sometime **** just happens, like someone said about the puzzle, it is possible eventually it will happen.

i dont believe in a good, although i see why people might and if that gives them something to believe in or something to live by then i think this is a good think

My parents have totally different beliefs on reglion, my mother is a catholic and i think believe there is a god, My farther on the other hand is a humanist know strongly disagrees with the belief there is a god,

neither of my parents have tried to make me do church or to dis-believe in god, but i still find it increasing difficult to believe there is a god,

my dis belief isnt caused by all the suffering in the world, (if there is a god he created something with intellegence that is capable of acting by him self and developing weapons and other methods of killing) but more by my interest and belief in science and evolution and the possiblity of the big bang, these make more sense to me than those of god and religion

But if i turn up at the pearly gates, and god turns me away, then i can say i was wrong

thats my belief no one other than myself is going to change that, thats why i get irrate when jehovas witnesses turn up and try to change me

i2c

What I don't get is why any of you feel like defending your beliefs....neither side will be successful in 'convincing' the other side...it's pointless.

I think a good question is this:

Why...why do you feel like it's important to explain, prove, site, defend, persuade, etc., what you believe?

I havent read all the replies so sorry if something similar was said.
IMO God doesn't exist. He was made up by people to control the minds of the gullible, and to put them in a position of power , and for a means to gain wealth. Look in any history book; corruption in the church is very abundant. i2c has good points

You know what Match you are right no matter what any of us say all of us are going to leave this discussion with the same beliefs and same attitude maybe a little mader but that is it.

Mr. Jizzles

sorry whizkid for not replying earlier I've been busy (long story) - as for the free will thing well... it's always interesting to see what other people will do if they are not under your control... I dunno maybe God was bored with the way all of creation just did exactly what he said and decided to create humans. I don't have a hotline to God/Goddess/whoever so I can only give you my opinion. However judging by some of the questions you have - you might want to have a look at Gnosticism - you might find it interesting. I'm not going to answer any of your other questions because thats a matter for you and your conscience - and God if he/she/it exists. But I will say it is utterly futile getting mad about this subject - as MG32 implies it is a personal matter for all of us.

MG32 - you make a good point and you ask a good question... my personal reply to your question is that I at least have not said what I believe in - I have said I'm not a Christian and thats about it. The reason I haven't said what I believe in is because I don't feel a need to explain, prove or defend that which I do believe in. The only thing I have tried to do is put forward various ideas that some people may or may not want to consider as part of their belief structure. Personally I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than to use the talents and abilities that they have to decide for themselves, rather than having someone tell them that x,y,z is 'the truth'. I think that in matters of faith, people have to make up their own minds.

Z

PS Nhk... I agree to an extent with what you say - but the important thing here is not to confuse the Church as an organisation with the belief system. The church and what christians are supposed to beleive are seperate things.