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I'm sorry but I'm having a really hard time seeing the down side to that. You're saying that we would take the only group of people that wield extreme power, get paid a lot of money and produce exactly _zero_ and we are going to put them in jail. How would that detrimentally affect the country?Quote:
Of course that wouldn't work as most of your political class would end up in jail.
Never said there was a down side :D. still just the thought of Bush playing bitch to buba.........
edit : talking of which I have to go face the immigration services here in France to see where my GF visa is :( .
There is a side of this I have been thinking about... Sure it's the ass wipes who hire illegals. to save a buck or two and force someone into a kind of indentured servitude. So why do they do it? They come here and deal with it because it is immensely better then their lives in their own countries. I have often made the comment, annex Mexico. They want to be here anyway. In fact that could be my tag line. "They want to be here anyway!".
But call me an optimist. What if, we did really stop them from comming and in? By that I mean the laws were enforced and legal imigration was increased to cover any so called "lack of servants" to do our bidding. And in the short term remove one way out of their dispare. Would that then force change in their own coountry for the good of all? Would it muster enough anger to brave their home front versus sneaking past our immigration authorities for the rest of their lives? Would they look around and say, ok we are stuck here lets change our corrupted police and government. Mexico is basically lawless. It's what the libertarians want to do to the USA. And they don't want to live there. Because it's easy to come here.
After all when these protests began they weren't displaying a desire to show an American flag, they waved their flags of Mexico. Their hearts lie there.
One side of my family immigrated here from Italy around 1860. Those first generation immigrants, one year later, were enlisted in the U.S. army proving their love for their new home. Generations later, these same immigrants continued to give back to the U.S. even when the “mother land” was on the side of the axis in WWII. My great grandfather sent all three of his sons to European battlefields in the name of freedom and in the name of this great land.
What’s the point? Immigrants today (the majority) are here to rape this county of all that they can. They are not here to embrace freedom and contribute back. They are here to make money and send it back to [insert foreign country here] without paying taxes and with full benefits on YOUR dime.
I personally find it disgraceful to protest for immigrant rights while waiving a flag from a foreign nation. This isn’t the vision of those who came here before them.
--TH13
thehorse13 I am sure that the americains in the 1850 were saying the same about the Irish and Italians at the time. That was one of the main stays of most Irish peasant families at the time the money sent home from the states. Same for the Italians and other immigrants. The problem aren't the immigrants it is more the people who employ them. Make it a crime to employ illegal immigrants, enforce it and slap a nice big fine on those are caught. you could even make the fine equal to the costs of send the immigrant home. Of course that wil never happen for obvious reasons.Quote:
What’s the point? Immigrants today (the majority) are here to rape this county of all that they can. They are not here to embrace freedom and contribute back. They are here to make money and send it back to [insert foreign country here] without paying taxes and with full benefits on YOUR dime.
That i totaly agree with. For me the only immigrant who should have rights is a legal immigrant.Quote:
I personally find it disgraceful to protest for immigrant rights while waiving a flag from a foreign nation. This isn’t the vision of those who came here before them.
You see that point of veiw quite a bit here. It's missing a couple of things. 1) Chances are 99 percent of those Italians and Irish came through Ellis Island and not in the hidden compartment of a truck. 2) Chances are they learned English, wanted to stay here and keep their families back home in good standing. I would even bet that as they saved money so that they could bring more family to stay. 3) I bet the loved America and wouldn't dream of burning the flag the represents a society that shelters them.Quote:
thehorse13 I am sure that the americains in the 1850 were saying the same about the Irish and Italians at the time. That was one of the main stays of most Irish peasant families at the time the money sent home from the states. Same for the Italians and other immigrants. The problem aren't the immigrants it is more the people who employ them. Make it a crime to employ illegal immigrants, enforce it and slap a nice big fine on those are caught. you could even make the fine equal to the costs of send the immigrant home. Of course that wil never happen for obvious reasons.
It's already a crime to hire illegal imigrants MURACU. In fact you violate SEVERAL laws. Thus the hyprocracy of our political system on this issue. Those here in the US that are desended from Latin America hold a majority in some states. And they seem to think it's all OK.
Well, we don't have quite the same problem, but this is not a new phenomenon.
Many countries have encouraged immigration to speed up their development at a rate well above their natural population expansion potential.
"Give me your poor and hungry masses" or something like that????????????
America, Canada and Australia have encouraged immigrants in their "pioneering" phases of development.
In the 1950's and 60's the UK deliberately recruited West Indians to work in hospitals and on our transportation systems (both government run).
At the same time Australia was recruiting skilled UK workers and offering a £10 "assisted passage"
In the 1960's and 70's we had the "brain drain" where the US was recruiting professional people from the British Isles.
Germany has relied on Turks, and France on North Africans..........................
The problems arise when you start to import "cheap labour" which basically means illegal immigrants. They are easily preyed upon by ruthless "gang masters" (what we call them over here) and are very vulnerable.
As it is an artificial situation it doesn't do anything for your economy either.
Hey, I have no solution or answers...............much finer minds than mine cannot come up with them either :(
All I would suggest is that there is a relaxation in the laws, or maybe I mean a "re-focussing"
For example:
1. If you can prove self-sufficiency and no burden on the host nation.
2. If you have a genuine job offer.
3. If you are qualified in a sector that is short of candidates, so have good prospects of getting a job that contributes to society/the economy.
I do not believe in artificial attempts to protect your local labour market. I would rather have a legal migrant worker than an illegal immigrant.............at least then there is some sort of control?
Strangely enough, the most vociferous against illegal immigration in the Uk are not the neo-nazi, master race, little englanders.....................it is actually the legal immigrants !!!!!
I do not believe that "sending money home" is, or ever was an issue. Illegal workers don't pay taxes.................that is an issue?
Just a view from this side of the Pond :)
Correct. In fact, I have found records on the Ellis Island site that document my relatives.Quote:
1) Chances are 99 percent of those Italians and Irish came through Ellis Island and not in the hidden compartment of a truck.
Correct. Once my relatives got established (legally) they brought over brothers and sisters through the same process. Also, Italian was only spoken in the home, otherwise it was English. This tradition ended in my parent's home as expected with transition over generations.Quote:
2) Chances are they learned English, wanted to stay here and keep their families back home in good standing. I would even bet that as they saved money so that they could bring more family to stay.
Correct. In fact, they were willing to prove their love by putting their life on the line for their new county not more than a year after setting foot on the shore line.Quote:
3) I bet the loved America and wouldn't dream of burning the flag the represents a society that shelters them.
Yeah, around here they enforce the illegal immigrant hiring practice. The exception to this is the Herndon Va. area, which decided it would be a good idea to build a day labor center for mostly illegal workers and did so with tax dollars. Note that all politicians involved in that decision where recently voted out of office.
Your absolutly right about it being our own fault and our nation benifited greatly from them. times have changed. we're under attack! our boarders must be closed and everyone in the country documented...we're all documented.Quote:
Originally posted here by MURACU
Tedob and Relyt,
You are probably not going to like this but I would say it is your own fault. It is the fault of the farmers and others who will only employ illegals. It is too easy for illegal immigrants to find work in the states. The US makes it extremely difficult for people to get in legally and then accepts having hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants working openly all over the country. The problem you have is your own laws are not being enforced. As long as there is a demand for a cheap exploitable workforce. Where the people who employ them face no risks. Then you will have run away immigration. If you got rid of all the illegal workers from the southren states overnight most of the crops would die in the fields and nothing would be cleaned. Illegal immigration shouldn't be criminalised employing them should be. Of course that wouldn't work as most of your political class would end up in jail.
right now 10% of the mexican population is in the us. one out of every 7 mexican workers will cross the border. legal immigration should be made much, much easier for mexicans. rather than just round up all the illegals and kick'em out just catch them as time goes by and kick them out after a hearing. there are many who have been exceptional citizens and those that have lived here most of their lives. grown up here. this just can't be a total black and white thing but it can't be amnesty either although some pardons might be in order. there are many waiting to come in the legal way to take the places of the illegals. then maybe mexico will stand a better chance in the summer olympics ;-)
immigration and heavy breeding is a way a certain hi-jacked religion uses to take over a country. they'll have a hard time doing that here with the influx of roman catholics we have. i personally dont want to see that change.
I didn't ask for this evasion and illegal take-over. However the make a buck regardless arses did and do! And of course our government representatives are in bed with business so we're hosed. If I had my way I'd fine and jail CEO's, Owners, and the like that hire any illegals.
Let us all not forget that whatever adversely affects the U.S. will adversely affect many other countries. With that in mind, all the members of the UN should send troops into Northern Mexico and stop them before they reach the border. Additionally they should place severe sanctions against Mexico until they get this flood under control. But since the UN is as spineless as our representatives - we're hosed again. Guess we'll have to migrate North to Canada.
;)