The End of the Universe

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The definition of what is considered "Evil" otherwise may differ according to point of view. In the Western world, some philosophers reject the idea of evil. Plato, for example, argued that that which we call Evil is merely ignorance and that which we call good is merely that which everyone desires. Those who assert a more universal code of ethics view Plato's definition as one based merely on situation and based on ethics or values.
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From Wikipedia

If there was a God as you believe and if had created everything and represents good, why does he have to fight anyway. Its almost like, if i'm root and i have a virus in my box that tries to corrupt files, why would i just let mr.virus run free. I would zap it with my celestial powers ( i.e #rm -f devil.virus ) ;-)!.

I do not believe in "innate evil" as that implies predestination.

Just as people are born with physical defects, people are born with mental defects. Some of these are incapable of distinguishing between good or bad (as defined by their social majority).

Most of these people never get into a position for this to be a particular problem. Others need a trigger (Brady & Hindley or the boys in the Bolger case) such as someone with a similar psychological defect.

Others chose the dark side.............for political or monetary reasons?

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And don't you think that's happening?
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Are you referring to George Bush ? ;-)

Our creator (insert the title for your personal belief here) gave us the capability of reasoning right from wrong. We were also given the power to act on one or the other.

If you get a group of people that have synergy, the collective good or evil will be huge. If you have good people that are willing to do nothing about the evil then the collective evil will become even larger.

The concept of a "devil" gives people to easy an excuse to justify their own evil. "It was too much temptation" "The devil made me do it" etc, etc etc

Humans don't need a "devil" to do wrong, we are quite capable of doing it on our own.

PacketThurst, Wikipedia is not the ultimate in defining anything, it's just somebody else's opinion.

Your second point is a very deep question and it requires - well - possibly more than this thread would tolerate to go down such a road. Briefly though, I'm challenged all the time with this sort of thing. "If there was a God, why did he allow all these wars, why did he not stop a tsunami from killing thousands of people, and why did he make the mosquito?"

Briefly, where's the evidence that "God" did these things? A lot of the disasters that befall us are of our own making, since we were given free will and haven't always used it wisely. Secondly, you're assuming God is in control and I've already given my views on that.

And thirdly, people have to be given the chance to make mistakes before they can come to believe that there is one way to follow. Let me give an example. Suppose a teacher has a pupil who thinks they can solve a mathematical problem better than the way the teacher is showing them. What would a good teacher do? Tell the pupil to shut up and do it his way? Or allow that pupil to demonstrate his beliefs and attempt to do it his way? Only by doing that could the rest of the class be confident that the teacher was the one with the knowledge, the one in control. (Of course this assumes the teacher's knowledge and methods are sound!)

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The concept of a "devil" gives people to easy an excuse to justify their own evil. "It was too much temptation" "The devil made me do it" etc, etc etc

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Like I said before, his great masterstroke was to convince the world he doesn't exist. So his insidious evil influence continues because nobody acknowledges it for what it is.

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PacketThurst, Wikipedia is not the ultimate in defining anything, it's just somebody else's opinion.
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i just took a portion of wikipedia's description of "evil" which conformed to my view. I was feeling too lazy, thats all. Infact, the wikipedia description contains your view too.


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Your second point is a very deep question and it requires - well - possibly more than this thread would tolerate to go down such a road. Briefly though, I'm challenged all the time with this sort of thing. "If there was a God, why did he allow all these wars, why did he not stop a tsunami from killing thousands of people, and why did he make the mosquito?"

Briefly, where's the evidence that "God" did these things? A lot of the disasters that befall us are of our own making, since we were given free will and haven't always used it wisely. Secondly, you're assuming God is in control and I've already given my views on that.
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I never said God did these things. You say that he's given people free will. But what about the innocent children that suffer in the world. Is it because of their actions out of free will that led them to suffering ?


Your third point makes no sense when you compare it with God. What does God want us to learn anyway?. As i told earlier, God is just an "idea". Its a funny thing to see that in all the major religions, you can win the support of God by just praising him. C'mon if he really is the creator, why should he be such so childish ?. Religions are so full of contradictions. For example, the old testament talks about not having sex with anyone related to you by blood. I wonder how Adam,Eve and their offsprings managed to create an another generation !.



Now, the Devil is God's making. God=root, devil=luser . So if the devil is running free, it must be God's plan. So respect Devil ;-) ...

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Originally Posted by PacketThirst

I never said God did these things. You say that he's given people free will. But what about the innocent children that suffer in the world. Is it because of their actions out of free will that led them to suffering ?

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No, it's due to the evil influence of the Devil who you refuse to acknowlege :), instead heaping the blame on God.

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Your third point makes no sense when you compare it with God. What does God want us to learn anyway?.

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God wants us to learn to do his will .... and one day live in a paradise world. But I'm not really expecting my point to make much sense unless someone is prepared to go into it a lot more, and by implication, actually study what's in the bible, which I accept is a bit much here.

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Now, the Devil is God's making. God=root, devil=luser . So if the devil is running free, it must be God's plan. So respect Devil ;-) ...

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I don't follow why it must be God's plan, but yes respect forces of evil, or the devil, whatever you want to call it because it's a powerful force capable of destroying the world. I concede God is allowing it to happen, allowing "free reign" until Armageddon ... but you're drawing me into stuff I never meant to get into.

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No, it's due to the evil influence of the Devil who you refuse to acknowlege , instead heaping the blame on God.
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You are not getting my point. If God represented virtues, he would protect the innocent. How many infants and children have died terrible deaths?. They didn't even get a chance to use their "free will". Will they reach heaven according to your beliefs?.


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God wants us to learn to do his will .... and one day live in a paradise world
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So thats what its all about...eh ?. A place where there is no pain and where you can do all the things that you ever wanted to do. Doesn't that concept suck ?. What's the fun in being happy all the time?. If you believe that paradise really exists, why my friend do you try so hard in life?. The fact that youv'e joined AO itself shows that you want to learn and become a better geek in life. What's the point ?. If i believed in paradise, i would just go around slacking and sleeping.


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Religions are so full of contradictions. For example, the old testament talks about not having sex with anyone related to you by blood. I wonder how Adam,Eve and their offsprings managed to create an another generation !.
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How would you explain this one ?

moira: I'd really recommend you to try meditating sometime. It opens up a new sense of awareness in you. I've heard people around me (who are Christians to the core) say that meditation is evil and satanic. I hope your views are not similar to theirs. Besides, isn't it fun to try something new?. I assure you that if you do it right, you'll be able to think out of the box !

PacketThirst,

I can only speak from a Roman Catholic viewpoint, personally, but meditation is core to Christianity.

What do Monks and Nuns do (as in religious orders)?????

"Meditation" is actually a methodology rather than a doctrine, faith, belief, or whatever??

For us ordinary types we have "retreats", which is where you take a few days out to contemplate spiritual things, and "missions" where a few experts come in and you devote a couple of hours to religious matters each day.

The only problem that I could see would be if people mistook the means (meditation) for the end (spirituality)?

Just my thoughts :halo: