Even if you outright banned a mod who cares? They can make another account. And everyone else can start up and continue conversation the very moment a thread is closed.
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Even if you outright banned a mod who cares? They can make another account. And everyone else can start up and continue conversation the very moment a thread is closed.
Because they're volunteers trying to help out, and sites can't function without em. Shouldn't treat em like trash, or anyone else, for that matter.
All I have to say is wow! I haven't been on in a couple days ( learning java) and come back to a storm... I guess it has all been boiling up to this anyways.
I didn't read every post in this thread, but I think I get whats going on for the most part.
A few suggestions/ideas:
1) hats off to JPnyc for being able to manage 30 forums without losing his mind! (not really a suggestion just something people should think about)
2) Lets all get together and overhaul the tutorial section! for example, installing OS's... If you know how to install/dualboot a certain operating system, write a tutorial about it, until there are no OS's to write a tut about on that subject. Then move on to something else.
3) Keep flaming to a minimum! contrary to popular belief WE ARE ALL NOOBS... To claim otherwise is a lie! To say that you know all is ignorant and flat out bull$hit, you may know a lot about a certain thing but, you don't know everything! Especially when it comes to computers!
4) I believe that even if we write tutorials on "the dark side" of security, and talk about it, when the word of mouth is spoken; the truth will come through! If you look at sites/forums that are for hacking/cracking/phreaking, you will see that posts asking how to use certain vulnerabilities or programs, to hack are embraced! AO would not embrace such requests therefor you have a person ask "where can I learn to hack", or "can I learn how to hack on AO?"
and the response will be "NO" because that person has already been turned away!
5) Post any/all IT related topics! This kinda goes with number 3, I have found some of the best information not in tutorials or blogs etc... but in a simple question thread! Most likely if you have a question/comment about it, then someone else does too! Also if it is a good enough question then someone who knows enough about it will (hopefully) write a tutorial on the subject, or add on to a tutorial already in place!
Now I realize that this wont happen over night, but to say that it is not possible is ridicules! The mods should do just that Moderate! If someone feels that they are not doing their job, then report them! Do not add to the flames by running your mouth back and forth taking up posts and valuable learning space! Likewise for the users!
All this comes down to is people! WE shape whatever this is! WE have come from being a product of our environment to our environment being a product of US! If we want this to be a better place, then we can!
Lets Do It =)
(I know I am not perfect and am being totally hypocritical in many of my suggestions but am willing to change for the better, hope you are too)
It's not so much the questions or even why they ask them. People like that care less about computers so much as they do keeping up this image of being Zero-Cool or something.
Most people own computers and can do neat things with them. But not everyone yells "Im 'ah l33t HaxAhhR!1!1!!!" while doing it though.
You guys should also take a good look at #4 in this list.
I must say, that is the first meaningful security article I have read that has spoken of "turd polishing."Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Spec
Nice one The-Spec!
That is a very thought provoking article, and written in an eminently readable style.
OK, some of the suggestions might not be options for a lot of people right now, but, as Oscar Wilde observed:
"We are all lying in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars"
@ The-Spec:
I suggest that you post that link in "Miscellaneous Security Discussions" along with your comments/intro. It certainly should provoke some serious discussion on the philosopy of security, and is, IMHO, the kind of thing we are looking to promote for this site. :)
And yeah, I liked the "turd-polish" bit as well :D
Nice to know we have a little support, I thank you for that. The sentiments expressed above by D0pp139an93r and ArPaNET (but don't assume I haven't lost my mind ;))are basically what I said earlier, the membership can influence the direction forum topics take by posting what they'd like to see. Priming the pump, as it were.
JM recognizes it's responsibility in keeping content fresh and for making the site more interesting, current and informative, and we're going to attack from our end. I think a joint effort, however, is what will have the best chance of success.
I must admit that I am just as guilty as anyone else, but in the past I think that we tended to look on the "site suggestions" forum as being more about the infrastructure, appearance, and mechanisms; rather than content and direction.
Today, there are so many more websites and blogs that I think that those last two items have come to the forefront for a successful site. Previously they tended to "look after themselves".
You have more posts than I have hair on my chest. Participation isn't a problem ;)
So are we letting this die? What was the outcome of the conversations? Is this just another thread of "The old AO" that spanned another "AP - keep em or drop em" thread?Any ideas for the new AO or is this just going to be another social site where the "Senior Members" are nostalgic and berate the new members for asking questions that are "n00bish"?Anyone that doesn't want to read the entire thread - just start at the beginning. I'm sure that chest hairs have nothing to do with this topic.There are good ideas here...
No, we started the ball rolling. We have a budget for tutorials, and we're setting it up.
This whole argument is ****ing stupid.
I loved AO back when JP was in charge, and I love it now, when Jupiter is in charge.
The whole "this Mod is this or that and that Admin is this or that" argument is completely counter-productive to the spirit of this site for us "users".
The stupid bullshit about moderation and whatnot is inconsequential to ME, the 'user'.
To those that don't like the way that AO is progressing: GO THE **** AWAY! We really don't need you.
AO has been many things over the course of the years...sometimes bad, most times good. It's certainly taught me quite a bit, on both sides of the coin.
It's amazing to me how one's internet persona can overwhelm one's true persona via 'tough talk' and holier-than-thou ideologies, and THEN plug their own website/forum on top of it. ****ing foolish and self-aggrandizing.
This incarnation of AO is STILL our AO, regardless of whatever douchebagish bastardization tries to copy it.
Props to to JPnyc for letting the bullshit bounce off and keep on keeping on.
O
I appreciate that, and thank you. We'd rather hear what the users would like to see here and try to address those things that we can. For instance the biggest complaint seems to be lack of new tutorials, so we put that into the works. We are just figuring out the best way to accept submissions.
More tutorials would be great, esp up to date ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
This was the reason that I asked Msmittens about where the newsletters have dissapeared to ...
Anyway good job otherwise :P
Sweet - any discussion on video hosting or access to hardware / honeypots? I know that's a huge expense and management nightmare, but still there seemed to be some interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPnyc
I think what we're going to do is set up a new sub forum specifically for submitting tutorials. It will have specially set permissions to allow only the creation of new threads, not replies to threads, and also to permit only the author to view their thread. That's so that in the event the tutorial is not accepted for whatever reason, it will remain private.
To the individual who posted about "Steal this computer" referring to AntiOnline as a hacking site. That book is how I found this site. Well before 2006. And when I first came in, it was right after the transition from JP to JupMed. So what we have here is not an example of this currently being a "hacking" site. We have an example of an author not checking his existing material when releasing an updated edition. Simple as that.
I have seen some really great ideas come out of this thread. I have also seen some of the same old crap that made me walk away in the first place. People always want to play the blame game. "Its Jupiter Medias fault the site sucks" we hear from the users and "the users are the ones who make the site what it is" from Jupiter Media. Both are at fault. But thats not the point. The point is, what can be done to fix the excessive level of suck.
If you aren't willing to move on from past transgressions then shut up and go elsewhere. If this ******* that everyone keeps talking about is so great why exactly are you still here? Either be constructive or don't let the door hit you on the way out.
JPnyc, You truly have a thankless job. I hope they are paying you well. Because if you gotta deal with this crap on the other 29 forums, you have my sympathy.
I love the idea of the real time honeypot. I would really like to see something like that. If I remember correctly back when AO turned "whitehat" they came under serious attack from the other side. I also seem to remember something along the lines of a real time tracker of everybody that tried to attack the site, and the type of attack. If there is one on the list that someone hasn't heard of that would give them inspiration to do some more research.
Just my worthless older than dirt, found in the gutter next to a homeless guy $.02
I wouldn't call it worthless at all, and thank you for it. As for pay, "well" is a relative term. I can afford food, shelter, and my parents' bail (they're kleptos). Not all forums are quite like this one, however. Some are, some aren't.
You made some good points, and we accept responsibility for our share of what's wrong with the site. We're changing things on our end. We're not yet sure about a "honey-pot", still awaiting word from 'above' on that one. But the tutorials part is in motion. Should be a reality next week, we'll be setup to accept new tutes.
Thank you.. I took that advice over a year ago.. if this is the attitude of membership over this discussion I will stay away..Quote:
To those that don't like the way that AO is progressing: GO THE **** AWAY! We really don't need you.
I have a softspot for AO.. I had put effort into contributing to the site.. and feel it would be nice if that mortar was useful in a building not waste Some changes were made..(physical/software).. I did not like.. made some suggestions.. was told to STFU.. so I left.. The bottom line here isn't the wallpaper, the colour scheme, the neighbours or the visitors..
The bottom line is the people who really did things for the site ..LEFT.. some because of work, some health, others life changes, some because of reactions from the site.. that is life..
The site attitude is what allows these people to hang around if and when they re-visit. It is the site character that, makes them WANT to contribute.. and that sets the trend.. it contributes to the site character setting the site attitude.
The attitude, of we don't need you if you have a criticism, only drives potential contributors away.. certainly if you have a criticism you need to have been here.. .. this site is fantastic with the punch at the door..hell I did it.. so it is interesting that it is still part of the site.. there certainly isn't a method or policy of dealing with the site criticism's.. apart from a punch in the nose or a slap that is..
THAT SAID:
The logo of a site is like its mission statement:tells me this is a security related site.Quote:
Maximum security for a connected world
So I should be able to start a discussion regarding the following:
RTP traffic - any vulns?
SIP weaknesses
Policies for disposing of HDD's
I would also expect comments on improving users access to the site, layout, the relevance of certain forums, what sort of content we would like to see more of..keeping with in our mission statement..
Then remember.. people don't always agree.. people will dislike others for some stupid reason.. that's life.. and is not a reason to dislike either person by the take sides against the other.. creating flamewars to encourage the same.. Baiting the parties in threads to watch the sparks. WE'VE ALL DONE IT.. that is where the mods are needed.. not to play games with the word filter (Shut up Eg-man, fox..I know OK), or use their position to piss off users they dislike..and it happens.. (haven't been here to see if it is happening here..this is a general observation)
In the end.. this is a Security discussion Forum site, with people as members with people strengths and weaknesses.. remember the former and accept the latter.. oh and.. g'day guys.. my first non drive by posting in over a year..
/edit: Why did I have to come back and redo the formatting? ok ok.. it is in the site FAQ right? ... blame No-Script in FF..didn't have AO allowed
ZomBieMann77,Quote:
If this ******* that everyone keeps talking about is so great why exactly are you still here?
Most people are members of many sites...at least more than one site...and there are pros and cons on each of them...preferring certain attributes found on one site does not mean you have no interest in the benefit of helping the other sites you're a member of.
The smart thing to do is to explore what sites are doing what better and how can we translate that here. Not ignore the characteristics that make one site better in an area than the others.
So instead of quipping " If this ******* that everyone keeps talking about is so great why exactly are you still here? " what you should be asking is ' how can we translate those benefits here? '
Even though we have our own site that does not mean we don't have an interest in the success of the other sites we are members of.
Our participation in this thread and the constructive criticism offered shows that we do have an interest in the vitality of AO.
Eg
but to be honest with ya Eg, there hasn't been that much constructive. At least not in the way I have been reading things. I may be misinterpreting the underlying tone of certain posts but most of what I have seen has been either a vendetta against spyder or bashing JupMed and its agents for having a corporate policy they have to follow. Out of 180 posts there have been maybe 30 total that were even semi constructive.
And for the record, not trying to be a jerk here. But just because it works over at ******* that does not necessarily mean it will work here. Does ******* have shareholders? Is ******* traded on the NASDAQ? No. It has membership it has to keep happy. But the bottom line is we don't pay for this site. Jupiter Media owns it. They have a completely different structure than the people who run *******. And I'm not trying to bash *******. I have never actually visited. I'm not sure at this point if I would be welcome.
But you are comparing apples to oranges and I have seen at least one person say in this thread (im paraphrasing here) "if AO doesn't do exatly what I say, I am taking my marbles and going home". I do not feel inclined to go back and find the exact post. I don't have time to sift back through 180 posts to find the one I am referring to. Thats why I said if you don't like it go somewhere else.
I would love to see you guys stay around. I don't want to see anyone leave. But some people just refuse to accept reality. And that reality is not everything that people want is possible for this large corporation. It may work fine for you guys but it wont fly with JPNyc and intmon's boss. Thats what I am trying to get across.
I work for a multi-national corporation. I am currently in the transportation division as a foreman. And let me tell you, what would fly with a small mom and pop trucking company would never fly with these guys. Its the same thing here. If one of my guys has a suggestion on how to do something better I have a chain of command I have to follow. If someone in the corporate office rejects the idea, then thats it, end of story. And at that point its like the idea never existed. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying thats the way life goes.
/rant
I understand what you're saying ZomBieMann77...and you're right there is a difference between a member-site and a corporation view. But AO is not one of JupMed's bread n' butter sites like WebDeveloper.com and graphics.com are...so there is, or should be, a lot more room for considering other avenues/approaches.
And you're right just because something works someplace else it doesn't necessarily mean it will work here. But I don't see this thread as being a ' what will work thread ' to me this thread is more of a ' let's bounce some ideas around thread, shake the trees and see what falls out thread '
Eg ;)
I wasn't referring to you, specifically, Und3ertak3r, as you seem to be a professional, intelligent, issues-based person. I was referring to something that I see too much of (as a member of multiple forums), namely, "This site sucks now!", and "It was better when 'x' was a moderator!" type of thinking. I did, however, let my emotions get the better of me, and if I insulted you personally or your sensibilities, I apologize. I do agree with you that there are issues that do need to be worked out here on AO, and I will continue to champion the idea that we, the users, need to make those changes hand-in-hand with the administrators of this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Und3ertak3r
I guess what I get the most upset about is the "Throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality. Why overhaul everything when all you need is an oil change? :(
Hope there's no hard feelings...
O
OK, the tutorials submission forum is up, and the rules are posted in an announcement forum wide. You'll find that you can only create new threads and only view in reply to your own threads. You will not be able to view or reply to anyone else's.
So, not meaning to incite a riot here, but...it's closing in on a month now since this all started...where are the "Big Changes?" I still see AO stagnating in it's own juices...
1st change is up already, we're taking paid tutes. That was one of the biggest things that was repeatedly asked for in this thread, so we went after that 1st. To date we have 0 tutes submitted.
We are here because we LIKED [past tense I know] this siteQuote:
If this ******* that everyone keeps talking about is so great why exactly are you still here?
it's where a lot of us cut our forum teeth
but the site IS deteriorating now, and we would like it to turn around
and as Eg has said, I dont see this thread as a knock AO thread
more of a who wants what ?
what can we try ?
why IS it so pants now ?
for what it's worth, I believe that the mods have an ego issue now
it used to be that the mods would be in th ebackground, posting as a member NOT as a mod, they would intervene if needed
they had one thing in common
they were older than the average skiddie, and they had experience of the world and man management
Gore [to put names down] might well be an authority on installing / running open source OS's, but he is still young, has no experience of head to head real world employment issues at management levels
he tends to react before putting the proverbial in gear
nihil has been active here from his first day, alway shelping the newcomer, and not applying criticism or patronising them in his replies UNTIL he became a mod.
he still is active, he is WAY and above the most prolific poster here
but the attitude in his posts has become more belligerent towards those he seems to consider unworthy / or even off topic
a recent thread on rainbow tables will do as an example
http://antionline.com/showthread.php?t=276765&page=2
a reply was patronising, and unworthy of anyone here let alone a moderator who is the representative of JupMed in the forum
once someone replied who is not only a skilled exponent in the higher sections of our IT world, but he also took the time to reply to both the original question, which as he pointed out WAS relevant to the thread, but then added a detaile dexplanation of just how it all works IRL.
as of now there has been no apology from any mod / admin for the bad 'manners', and it is THIS that we are asking about
WHEN WILL there be any accountability to US the MEMBERS for any impropriety of you the mods / admin
the site needs to be open about just what it will and WILL NOT accept
and it needs to accept that when said lines have been crossed that a price has to be paid
until this has been sorted, I [IMHO] do not think there will be a renaisance for AO, as it will still appear that the forum is just an 'old boys club' and that is something that cannot have an online future
one last
to those who say - if you don't like it here - LEAVE
just look at the number of posts from each of th emembers posting here in this thread
we ARE the forum
we are all in the multi THOUSANDS of posts
without us, there IS no AO
yes it will still be here
but how long could it survive
the wwweb is changing, and forums are no longer the way of the wwweb
blogs are more direct, they are getting to be the next 'new' thing
so maybe JP WAS a fortune teller, and knew it was the right thing to do
I don't think any other forum is going to sell for 00's of 000's of $
do you ?
and another last
I have been here since 2003
I have never had any issue personally with either Gore or nihil
and, in point of fact am actually rather fond of nihil :eek:
but it does not detract from what I believe to be a core issue with AO and the reasons we are having these discussions now
bloody hell
should change my tag to Rambler
cos I do go on once my soap box is charged up
HiQuote:
1st change is up already, we're taking paid tutes. That was one of the biggest things that was repeatedly asked for in this thread, so we went after that 1st. To date we have 0 tutes submitted.
I was going to submit one a while ago to 'get the ball rolling' so to speak but was put of by some of the rules.
Is it possible to relax the rules a tad - I agree with most but could do with an explanation of the following:
What's thew screening process and what does the freelance agreement entail/what's it for?Quote:
Rules:
- Members that pass the screening process and whose submission are selected for the AntiOnline Member Tutorial of the Week must sign a freelance agreement authorizing the use of their work.
What if the tutorial involved a script of some kind...could this not be added as a txt file? Can't quite understand the reasoning for this.Quote:
- Attachments, such as text files and Word documents are prohibited.
I can understand the minimum word limit - but why the max limit....I don't think I have ever wrote a tutorial that is under 1000 words.....Quote:
Content Guidelines:
- Word Limit: 700 (minimum) - 1000 words not including code snippets.
This is a tad subjective to the readers own knowledge.....surely the reader can assess the skill level for themselves?Quote:
- Tutorials must be labeled Beginner, Intermediate or Advanced. Intermediate and advanced tutorials must include a brief section about the required level of knowledge to successfully follow the tutorial.
What about italics, quote, URL etc... surely if the formatting is availabe on the forum then it can be used in the tutorial?Quote:
- Allowable formatting tags: Bold, Underline, List and Code
There's probably very good reasoning for all of the above rules from an internal [JupMed] point of view.....just curious as to what it is...
The eds will have to answer those. I had nothing to do with them, other than putting up the physical announcement once written.
Okey Dokey - Not too sure what you mean by 'Eds' but is it possible to get an answer from them?
I reiterate what foxy said. And, if anyone remembers my posts from past years, the issue of money has been broached before by me...a few times...
2007 example
sorry if I'm blunt...but...in my opinion...$50 for a tutorial of the month...( everyone else I presume gets squat ) seems more than a little cheap for a corporation that has over 100 million dollars in annual revenue.Quote:
Jupiter had a weak second quarter, with revenues of $34.7 million, down slightly compared to last year. Image revenues did better, rising 2 percent to $27.3 million.
Considering this it doesn't surprise me there's been none submitted.Quote:
To date we have 0 tutes submitted.
Just my opinion.
Editors ;)Quote:
Not too sure what you mean by 'Eds' but is it possible to get an answer from them?
(Hello to those who remember me!)
I left the site a while ago when it was in a lull. I check back every so often to see if it's been remedied or not, and this thread was on the front page... here's my 2c
To answer the OP: I want AO to re-become a community of infosec folks who pro-actively share skillsets, experiences, and intelligence about information security.
This used to be the case, especially around 2003-5. Recently, the interface changed, which changed the priorities of the site. Example:
The old front page used to have:
* default filters on front page content (no GCC, no cosmos, no tech humor)
* top security tutorial writers listed
* top other tutorial writers listed
* top AO earners listed
* Bad users listed
* And on each post, an antipoint status.
http://web.archive.org/web/200304082....com/index.php
New front page:
* How many posts.
* Top poster.
Claim: The only visible metric of contribution to AO is post count.
There used to be indicators to users about how to behave. The examples above made it clear that tutorials were valued more than posts, some users were valued for their contributions more than others, and the bad users list indicated that you should probably watch your mouth.
Right now contribution is pretty specific to comparing against your post count.
Examples:
* Only 1 security tutorial has been published in the past 100 days
* Quote FoxyLoxy :* AO is now resorting to PAY people for good content.Quote:
we ARE the forum
we are all in the multi THOUSANDS of posts
without us, there IS no AO
* The front page is usually covered with general chit chat, site suggestions, tech humor... The most active front page thread is this one.
Point: Making the frontpage content relevant to the goals of the site will increase relevant contribution. Again, post count is all that matters to be a contributor by the current software, with no regard to relevancy (a positive karma thread in security tutorials is about as relevant as it can get, but it receives no priority or provide any incentive to the user to write one instead of a "LOL HALO RULEZ" thread in GCC)
I think having visible AntiPoint status on posts had its downsides, but the major upside of "think before you speak". That is gone now so post count is now the metric that makes users stand out, and users can't learn the norms from the mistakes of others (red flashing bars)
So i guess my point is... potential high value users will get to AO and have no idea how to contribute. The purpose of AO was clear in the past, now it's muffled by how users actually treat the forum. Unorganized chaos can work in a place like 4chan, but not here where there's a topic. There's confusion with this.
Here's example improvements:
* Make the default front page hide the non-tech threads, and prioritize the infosec threads followed by tech related threads for the best real estate. (allow for customization for users)
* Bring back the flashing AP thing on posts (AP abuse was/can be dealt with)
* Incentivize users with front page real estate ("So_and_so wrote a tutorial"... paying for tutorials is about as uncreative as it gets)
* ETC ETC Other soft forms of incentive... doesn't have to be AP's but you get the point
Point in shortest:
AO can't have goals or priorities unless the site itself provides incentive to it's contributors. Perhaps I'm alone in thinking this, but there hasn't been much of anything useful here since the software changed the AntiOnline formula last year. AO multi-dimensional incentives to encourage good, relevant content. Site irrelenvancy is near...
I can't believe "let's pay for tutorials" was actually considered to improve this place. That's totally primitive. For myself, the feedback (APs) and "nice tut"'s and postings on EITPlanet and the writing/teaching/learning experience are why I contributed so heavily in the past... and it's the same reason you'll find the same type of action on sites like GameFAQs.com. (they don't pay jack, IIRC)
Look at users like 'catch' and you'll wonder why he'd even bother spending time on this place at all. He probably contributed for the same reasons I did.
I haven't been active in a while, so perhaps things have changed more than I've been able to see.
Wait, the front page only changed about six months ago. What about the 1 3/4 years prior to that? We made the changes because the site had gone down on its own, there was no longer much to risk, so we upgraded the software.
What I'm reading in that post is that some type of acknowledgment system or accolades is what's missing?
Removing the non-tech forums from the main page is not a problem at all, if that's what everyone wants.
I'm speaking of the change between oct 4-16 of 2006Quote:
Wait, the front page only changed about six months ago. What about the 1 3/4 years prior to that? We made the changes because the site had gone down on its own, there was no longer much to risk, so we upgraded the software.
What I'm reading in that post is that some type of acknowledgment system or accolades is what's missing?
http://web.archive.org/web/200610040...ntionline.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200610181...ntionline.com/
What you're reading is that expectations for users are clear by definition ("What AntiOnline IS") and by example ("Top Security/Other Tutorial Writers, AntiPoint Earners") in the old site, and that this new AO has suffered greatly since the software upgrade has removed these indicators of what types of contribution are valued or not. Because now, it seems post count is how you become a respected member of the "community"
My, has it been that long? Anyway, my point was the post numbers before the change and those after are comparable. If that change were responsible I would expect to see a marked drop after it, or a least a gradual drop since.
The diminishing numbers came long before that, that's what prompted it in the first place. We couldn't have gotten approval to make any changes to a site that was booming.
By the way, I've removed the off-topic forums from appearing on the main page list of threads.
So we're still on this topic aye?
I think Soda has excellent points. I used to come here first when looking for something that was breaking and likewise, when I had something breaking. Now, I stop over here maybe 2 times a week just to see what's going on.
The point is that many great ideas were presented to JupMed on what "high value" posters are looking for here. Much like a garden, if you fertilize your crops they will grow. Likewise, give us at least some of the suggested items and we will return. With that, more users will show up and the site will gradually regain the strength it once had.
Make sense?
--TH13
the biggest concern seemed to be new tutorials, and we took steps to try to address that. The other glaring request would seem to be for a honeypot, and I haven't gotten word on that yet. You realize of course none of this is up to me, personally. Now, I went back over the thread but those are the two requests that really stuck out. What else was missed?
I understand that people liked the site the way it was, but that isn't coming back. It is impossible. It was an endlessly hacked up version of outdated software, which is no longer even supported or can be found.
Soda's absolutely right that ' prestige ' is the best motivating factor for taking the time to write tutorials, but money is a very good motivator too...however, I really don't think the off-chance to win $50 really has any motivational value at all...in fact it makes JupMed look cheap...personally, if they can't do a lot better than that then you're better off not doing it at all.
For a multi-million dollar corporation to offer their forum contributors a ' chance ' to win ' $50 ' is in the same vein as Bill Gates offering software developers a chance to win ' $150 ' for submitted software.
Just looks very cheap...in fact it looks almost like JupMed doesn't appreciate the time and effort that goes into a tutorial at all...it's almost an offensive amount. IMO
So...yes...the tutorial issue was addressed...but, in my opinion, it wasn't addressed appropriately.
My young padawan - nothing is impossible.Quote:
I understand that people liked the site the way it was, but that isn't coming back. It is impossible. It was an endlessly hacked up version of outdated software, which is no longer even supported or can be found.
So tell me this. The AntiOnline reputation system, in it's current state; is it the default vBulletin stuff. No additional modifications?
Because writing a mod that is completely independent of the vBulletin DB and Code base is not that complicated.
Oh yea and we're still waiting for the answer to Harriett's -I mean Harry's - sorry that's Nokia's questions about the tut rules.