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There are a few... one of the current "highlights" - gun control.Quote:
Originally posted here by Mankan
Could you please give me a single example of in what way your freedom is beeing limited by the current administration?
Gun control, IMO, just keeps honest people honest... the criminals still seem able to get guns whenever they need/want, much like drugs, cars or anything else really.
Well, personally I know of "public" systems that are able to snapshot an OC48 for an extended period of time... I can only assume, based on prior examples, that what the government has far outperforms that which is available to the public.Quote:
Originally posted here by Mankan
I don't deny the existence of systems like Echelon but as I've stated before, I belive it's capacity is overestimated.
And, remember, storage is cheap... there are people out there "archiving the Internet" - basically taking snapshots of it in pseudo realtime.
While I don't necessarily believe that the (current) focus of such things as Echelon is to invade the privacy of the average citizen, I also don't believe that it's perfect. Having worked on some rather advanced search engine technology, nothing's perfect and there are always outliers... you're still going to catch a few innocents among the bad eggs, etc.
I've seen many people comment in this thread on everything from gun control, to Echelon, and on to our freedoms. Now it's time for me to throw in my two cents...
You need to remember that the American government was created to serve the people. In the eyes of "the government", they are serving the people by "protecting them." Now this "protection" can be far reaching and seem unnecessary but you have to ask yourself how far do you want the government to go in order to protect you. I trust the government in some aspects and in others; I completely disagree and distrust them. You can look at the government in black and white and either way, there will always be something that you think should be changed.
Of course there's the little issue of our government being a democracy. In a way, it is, but it's not a true democracy. If you need to look up the word democracy, I encourage you to do so.
And lastly our freedoms. Yes, Americans do have freedoms. Our Bill of Rights and our Constitution give us those rights. Notice I said "our" for both of those. We have freedoms but its all about how we use (or abuse) those freedoms. You have the freedom to punch me. But your freedom to punch me ends at the tip of my nose. Why? Because you would be infringing upon one of my freedoms.
So, you've lost your freedom to be punched, then? :DQuote:
Originally posted here by wgillam
[...]
And lastly our freedoms. Yes, Americans do have freedoms. Our Bill of Rights and our Constitution give us those rights. Notice I said "our" for both of those. We have freedoms but its all about how we use (or abuse) those freedoms. You have the freedom to punch me. But your freedom to punch me ends at the tip of my nose. Why? Because you would be infringing upon one of my freedoms.
*ducks and runs*
Everyone says it's the information age, more like the eavesdropping age to me. Most of us here know how to protect ourselves, but its sad we have to go throguh so many measures.
Yeah, just like it's sad that I actually have to lock my car when I leave it or it will get stolen. I also lock the door to my appartment when I go to sleep at night.Quote:
Originally posted here by PastyPyro
Everyone says it's the information age, more like the eavesdropping age to me. Most of us here know how to protect ourselves, but its sad we have to go throguh so many measures.
I don't see your point.
It's easy as hell to eavsdrop on a stationary phone line. You need some cabels and an earphone. The thing is that it has to be done from the line the telephone is connected on. With internet you can eavsdrop further away and it's harder to detect but I still don't see the how this related to freedom or lack thereof. If you don't want anybody on your computer you lock it. Just like your car or whatever.
Heh. Everytime I get into a discussion of freedom the americans bring their gun control.Quote:
Gun control, IMO, just keeps honest people honest... the criminals still seem able to get guns whenever they need/want, much like drugs, cars or anything else really.
I'm having a really hard time understanding this because what's libertarian bullshit to me is a constitutional right for you.
I don't understand why you'd wanna carry a gun or why you should be allowed to. In Sweden very few guards with special training, the police and the armed forces are allowed to carry a gun. Nobody else. In Sweden it takes over a year to get a licence for a pistol and it's almost impossible to get one for an automatic rifle. Why? Because these aren't guns for sport or hunting, but for killing people.
The thing with gun control is, I belive, that it stops alot of people from getting into bad business in the first place. I can understand the argument that since every criminal owns a gun you should be allowed one too, to defend yourself. But the day you get burgled and they steal your gun, your gun is next gun in a criminal hand. The day you loose your job, get pissed and decide to blow your wife's brains out I thnk gun control makes a difference.
I know there have been times in my life when, If I had carried a gun, I would've used it and I would've regretted it for the rest of my life.
Also, I think gun control is a political issue that can be lobbied against, protested against, worked on or changed. This is something that you as a voter, or as a politician can change.
I ask you once again, give me an example of freedom taken away from you.
I appologize if I appear narrow minded or ignorant, the thing with guns is a cultural difference that is hard for me to get over.
Cheers,
I hear you and I agree totally. What I meant is that it is a very basic theory of representative democracy that an organ needs to control the administration. This organ is the media. Just watch any episode of 60 minutes. If it wasn't for media, none of us would ever have heard of Lewinsky.Quote:
Mankan. the thing you said about the media being the one to investigate these type of things and getting the information to us. i are wrong. the media controls what we see and what we dont. if a person (not pointing at you) sits in front of its tv all listening to cnn all and believing what they say, will not get the other side of the story. just like zigar said, all the mainstream media cares about is its ratings and the cash flowing into their pockets. look at any mass media chanell. why is it that as soon as one event is done with, the next one comes up. why is it that some channels only tell one side of what is going on in the mideast. the media wants us to believe what they think we should believe. if they want to turn the mainstream public against someone they think might be radical, they will do that. they will play the freaking planes flying into the wtc untill the people have rage in their minds. its all brainwashing.
To the rest of what your saying I can only agree but I don't think it's media's fault. The problem is that people read to little and with not enough diversity. If I read three papers a day, one democratic, one republic and one socialistic I get the whole picture but beeing a democrat I only read my democrat paper and belives it as it is.
If people thought more and watched Ricky Lake less the world would be a better place.
Cheers,
I agree with mankan on the point that people might use the gun for unintended purposes. The constitution's guns refer to muskets, and I believe an armed militia was supposed to be kept to keep the government in line. However, there were guns around the house in the pioneer days and I bet there were less "accidents" back then, especially with children. I believe the problem is not the guns, it is the people. If knives were the main weapon, there would be debates there. I could kill people at school with a sharpened pencil. Logically, that is the most dangerous weapon because everything else is banned. Anyway, we should concentrate more on the sheer amount of waste and corruption of tax dollars. If the money wasn't there to spend, half of these debates wouldn't exist.
well any idiot in america can get a gun ,hell u hear of kiddies almost every day blowing some other kid away at school.hell if the goverment would hear me [like that will ever happen ] i would try 4 banning all guns,execpt 4 all military personal.hell i think it would be great if they made a deal ,say a guns 4 cash deal.and go back to swords,any idiot wih no skill can kill with a gun,but a sword its a little harder ,u need skill 4 that or hell go back to bare knuckels,these days every1 is to afraid 4 a good ass whipping they would rather just shoot u
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is all we see or seem,but a dream within a dream-- edgar allen poe