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At the risk of angering many Americans I fell a response is required from a more or less normal canadian about this whole Iraq thing. I find it hard to beleive a country so weak from bombings and sanctions can be a threat to a superpower like the USA, and get the sad feeling that President Bush is trying to waylay some of the heat he is getting for not finding binladen.....now searches for an easier target...an easier win.....in a war that should never have started.
A lot of Veterans actually dont like the idea of another war with Iraq....you can find 10 reasons why, by one here
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By Anonymous, AlterNet
September 9, 2002
The author is a Gulf War combat veteran.
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strange , the article dosnt say which side he fought for and he only speaks of the US in third person terms.
Very good point Tedob, I did not notice that. However the author also goes on to mention..Quote:
Originally posted here by Tedob1
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By Anonymous, AlterNet
September 9, 2002
The author is a Gulf War combat veteran.
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strange , the article dosnt say which side he fought for and he only speaks of the US in third person terms.
If the author was Iraqi(or had an ulterior motive) why would he be concerned about our Veterans?Quote:
10. The Department of Veterans Affairs will not be able to care for additional casualties because VA can't even take care of current VA patients. Most veterans now wait six months to see a VA doctor, and most veterans wait more than six months to receive a decision on a VA disability claim. Many of those waiting in line are Gulf War veterans, many with unusual illnesses. According to VA, of the nearly 700,000 veterans who served in Desert Shield and Desert Storm, more than 300,000 have sought VA healthcare, and more than 200,000 have filed VA disability claims. Two weeks ago, President Bush slashed $275 million from the healthcare budget of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
hes not, he wants the american people to be fearfull. hes saying why help a government that will do nothing for you. and although va hospitals discourage claims they feel are not valid. (fraud is a popular sport in this country), once its proven it was aquired while in the army, there's no problem. although its hurry up and wait situation because it is the army, people are treated. the people hes speaking of were not wounded in action cases, because the army would not have discharged them without helping them first. do you think it impossible that maybe 125k of the 200k claims for disability are from people who just don't want to work or would just like to supplement their income. we all know people like that, or at least i do.
the budget was slashed (im guessing here) because their arn't as many sick vets as there were. say like after viet nam. i don't believe the american people would allow anyone stricken in the service of their country to be abandoned by the gov.
The main reason the US are so keen to to get rid of Sadam is gain control of the oil. If they managed to gettheir pupet leader in place they would have control 65% of the Gulf's oil production. It stinks. If the US did go to war with Iraq who would get hurt? Not sadam! It would be the people of Iraq that would be killed, injured and left homeless.
Take a look at this UK News article.
SADDAM Hussein is years away from developing his own nuclear weapons, an influential defence report revealed yesterday.
The respected International Institute for Strategic Studies demolished claims by Tony Blair and President Bush that Iraq's weapons are a direct and imminent threat to America and Europe.
The 75-page dossier says Saddam could make a nuclear bomb within months if he got hold of weapons- grade material.
Full Story here:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...l&siteid=50143
I am just curious but how many people in this thread have actually had a shot fired at them in anger? I don't know of to many veterans that would wish for any type of war for any reason... Yet those same men and women would gladly go and fight (99% of them) so that someone else wouldn't have to... While I did not serve in the Gulf war I did have 43 days of fun in the sun with guns in Grenada (1983) and another 18 months (over a three year period 1984-1987) in the jungles and mountians of Central America...
Oil is the least of the reasons for our wanting to take out Sadam... He is a terrorist in and of himself in every sense of the word... As for the US threatening our reluctant allies (Germany was noted by someone) I would remind them that were it not for the US there is a better than average chance that they would be in Buchenwald or Sachenhousen or some other nice German resort if their parents had been allowed to live in the first place... I say this because Sadam is no better than Hitler or Stalin were... Between them those men caused over 75 million deaths and given the chance Sadam would do the exact same thing... Do I think he can put a warhead on NY? No... But into Isreal that is within the realm of high possibility... You should rememebr that the SCUD 1 missle that he has plenty of were desingned by the USSR to carry theatre nuclear weapons as well as chemicals and biologic's... Should we wait until Jeruselum is turned into a big glass parking lot or half the population iis dead or dying from VX nerve agent before we do something?
4MidgetHitmen
I don't understand your point of view...
Bush has been promising the UN 'evidence' about an immediate Iraqi danger for the last couple of months. A couple of days ago, he spoke for the UN. What did he say? Saddam is a monster, Saddam is a dictator. Well doh...
Bush introduced his plans for the Middle East: a democratic Afghanistan, a democratic Palestine,... Bush's solution: attack Iraq, get rid of that evil Saddam.
He told us about Saddam's violations of UN resolutions. He 'forgot' to mention the Israeli violation of resolutions 242 and 338 though.
He forgot to mention Saudi-Arabia, Jordan, Iran,... where the same things have been going on for ages.
He told us about the cruelties, about the torturing and executions going on. He 'forgot' to mention that those cruelties were already going on before 1990 (Saddam used to be America's best friend in the Middle East untill 1990, remember?).
And then Bush' 'evidence': without the Gulf War in 1991, Iraq 'probably' would have had nuclear weapons by 1993. "Iraq has the infrastructure to manufacture an a-bomb". Sorry, but that's not the same as really making one. And besides... about every country in the world has that possibility. Is that the evidence Bush is going to use to start a war?
Bush' keyline: "Our biggest fear is terrorists realizing their ambitions with the aid of an illegal regime; a regime that provides them with the technology to commit mass-murder". Simple as that: Bin Laden = Saddam, and who knows... maybe even the rest of the Middle East.
Again, no evidence. And if that is all it takes to start a war... Bush should take on the entire Middle East.
And about that arguement that we Europeans would speak German without you guys... it's been beaten to death already... and it's the same as saying that without Europe, you guys would still be drinking 'firewater'...
BTW: THE key-line in his speech was 'The US don't have a problem with the Iraqi people'. A clear signal to close observers that the US ARE going to war: Bush said the exact same thing last year before attacking Afghanistan. Reagan said the exact same thing in 1985 before bombing the **** out of Libia. Bush Sr. said the same thing back in 1991 before startint the Gulf War...
I also came across this interesting story about the Millennium Challenge 2002, a virtual 'USA against Iraq'-war game. The US won that game... or didn't they? Read here Van Riper's story (Van Riper was the general who 'played' Saddam... and beat the **** out of the US of A).
I was going to pass on this thread since I've posted about all I can on another, similar, thread. Several things decided for me.
First, was a comment about Australia and the Aussie troops. I met quite of few of the Diggers while in Vietnam. Proportionate to the population and military numbers, Australia had more troops with us than any other country, I think including the South Vietnamese. They had a larger percentage of their military there than we did. And, the Digger is a helluva soldier, among the best in the world.
I spent a week R&R in Australia and I was never, ever treated with more kindness anywhere in the world, including my own country. I have nothing but the highest respect for the Australian soldier. I'm honored to have met, talked, and tipped a few with them, and if I were going into combat today, I would hope and pray that they were at my shoulder. It would make me feel a lot more confident in my survival.
As for the VA, they ARE overworked, I agree. But, I never have a problem being treated, and I'm wearing a prosthetic on what's left of my left leg that needs regular treatment and periodic replacing. I've never had to wait more than a week or two for an appointment.
Lastly, I can't speak for the Gulf War vets. I can tell you that, as much as we Viet Vets hate the thought of war, as much as we hate seeing our kids and some grandkids now, have to go into one, almost every Viet Vet I've spoken with, well over 90%, would be standing in line at the recruiting station and volunteering if they'd take us.
Finally, I don't see what the surprise at "visiting" Iraq is all about. Saddam has been mentioned sinced 9/11 as a possible. I predicted here, shortly after 9/11 that within 6 months American resolve would begin to wilt. I wasn't far wrong. This country has the military and economic power to rule the world. We have some of the best equipped and trained soldiers that have ever been put in the field. We could rule the world. What we lack is fortitude, not from our service men and women, but from the civilian sector. If what happened in NYC, Pennsylvania, and at the Pentagon wasn't enough, what the hell does it take?
I am with you Chuck56... I guess the killing of 2500+ innocent people (not all Americans) is not enough... I wonder if someone like Sadam giving VX or Sarin or a nuke to some terrorist and having them pop it off in say LA or NYC would be enough to keep the people behind the war? IMHO the american people need to get away from the Clinton era of throw a couple of tomahawks at 'em and it will be all better attitude...
4MidgetHitmen