Do you believe in god?

Just gonna ask one simple question here, and you are righ MG32 no matter what we will walk away from here believing what we want to believe, but I still have to ask this.

Have any of you people seen a car wreck so bad that your sure nobody could of survived it yet they walk away without a scratch.

Have you ever seen a person so full of cancer, and the doctors give them two weeks to live, but somehow three years down the road they are still alive, and cancer free.

There is no scientific explanation for these things, there are no laws that can explain. To me its a miracle (yes I said miracle). It is the only way that people like this could of survived.

btw: I didn't make these up from watching TV, but I have family that this has happened to.

cheyenne.... to answer your question from me

yep I have seen a car crash so bad that you would be surprised if anyone walked away from it... I used to live on a main road that was notorious for car crashes (it used to be a rare year if we had less than 4). Yep I agree things like this are.... for want of a better word miraculous.

On the other hand I haven't seen anyone diagnosed with terminal cancer survive (my father died of cancer). But speaking as a biologist (and someone who has several friends doing cancer research) I can only say that cancer is a weird disease. It acts strangely - very strangely and to think that doctors or scientists know everything there is to know about cancer is a fallacy... but progress is being made. Not to belittle your experiences (and I'm not trying to, so please do not be offended) but I wouldn't be surprised by anything that is involved with cancer - it can act so rapidly it's unbelieveable and can also go into remission just as quickly. Just because we do not understand how something works it is not something that should immediately be ascribed to God. There may be laws or scientific explanations for these things but it might be a case that we have yet to discover them

I guess what I am saying is that I have seen both extremes - that which is considered miraculous and that which is simply unexplainable. Not all of it can be ascribed to a divine power, on the other hand not all of it can be explained away by current scientific theory. Thats why I state I keep an open mind. If you're happy in your belief that's good, just try and be the best person that you can be irrespective of your belief. As Negative said science and faith are not mutually exclusive (and by faith I don't necessarily mean christian dogma - thats a slightly different thing)

Z

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Originally posted here by allenb1963
Jeez Deb....I never had you pegged as such a cynic. If you do a little research into the good book you'll find that the devil has dominion over the earth (given to him when he was cast out of heaven)....that God doesn't cause bad things happen because God is incapable of doing evil....it's not in his nature....the things you accuse him of are the result of actions instituted by the minions of hell, not heaven. If God ruled the earth (as he one day will) there would be no disease, starvation, etc.. But God doesn't "rule" the earth....he gives us all free will to choose to follow his path or that of the adversary. Even the blame you place on God is the work of the evil forces that dominate the earth....you are doing just exactly what Satan wants you to do...blame God for his handiwork. Bad things happen to good people....thats part of the price we all pay for living on this "hell" called earth. It's all a test to determine the worthiness of your soul...and Satan caused the test, not God.

Think back to the first time you looked into the eyes of your newborn child....could the devil have created such a perfect loving creature as that? I think not.


God created a perfect world Deb....Satan is the one who *****ed it up.

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Oookay, we have an allmighty god who gets "mad" at satan and casts him out of heaven. Why not just destroy him? And don't give me that 'god is good' crap, he let man kill his own "son" in the most painful horrible way there was to die at that point in history. Why create a world, then toss the devil into it to make it difficult, and then make you "prove" you're good enough to get into heaven? God loves us all unconditionally, and we are his children. Well let me tell you something, I have a child. And there is no way I'm going to set him up for failure, punish him when he doesn't achieve perfection, and make him spend his life groveling in front of me for my approval.

MG: I'm not really trying to prove anything here, it's just a discussion that gets opened up here every now and then. We had some looooong ones before and (Neg will confirm this :D ) I haven't always been on the side of this discussion I'm on now.

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Originally posted here by THE RADICAL
Life is impossible without something to start it. You cannot get something from nothing. You can't get a gigantic explosion that started the universe from nothing either.

I read an article that said that the formula for determining the odds for the formation of life is simple. All you must do is grab a 1,000 piece puzzle and dump it on the floor. Keep doing it untill all the pieces of the puzzle fit together when you dump it out. Impossible? No (it might take a an infinate number of tries but there is a possibility for them to all fall upon eachother exactly and complete the puzzle), that is why I think that we have a lot of athiests out there, but remember this...

Someones got to push the pieces together.

Hope I explained that well enough it was a real thought provoking article but I forgot where I read it.

--Peace :cool:

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You can't get something from nothing, is God something or is he nothing, it don't just work one way. Where did God come from? he can't just appear out of nothing! Personally I don't feel I have to prove the non existence of God when the theory has never been proved in the first place. Tell me how can you believe that God could just be there but the world couldn't, look at the evidence, the worlds here but wheres God.

cheyenne1212, I once was hit by a car that drove about 60kph / 36mph while crossing a street with my bike and I had nothing, only some wounds in my face needed to be stiched, but I hadn't broken a single bone. When I saw that car coming I thought I'd be dead or at least close to.
Only my bike was totally trashed.
I just think it's coinsidence, I had just luck the car hit me on a particular way.

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"The kingdom of God is in you and all around you; not in buildings of stone and wood. Break a stick and you will find me, leap a stone and I'll be there"

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(approx quotation ;))

I do not bother so much asking myself whether God exists, either as depicted in the Bible, Koran, or any other religious writings of sorts. True faith lies not in the definition one reads, but in that which one finds. I personally incline towards Satanism, although I avoid labelling myself as anything. To know whether God exists or not, you should ask yourself what God means to you. Stop looking at It holding such high expectations and desires and prayers. Live the life you have, with the good and the bad, and never feel bad about what you are doing... being the slave of something.

Now for those inclined into acusing me of being self-contradictory [from giving a 'lecture' about God when I consider myself closer to the 'other side'], I rather say, God is a name, a symbol, a label. When one finds God, one understands what this label meant for one all along, and finds peace within... sounds corny...

And, although, obviously, the point of this thread is for people to illustrate their point, the fact of the existance of God is utterly lacking importance from a philosophical, macro-universal or social standpoint. And as for the personal level, attempting to convince others of this fact [much like I would try to convert a dear acquaintance of mine going to Catholic school so she would become a Satanist] is pointless and lacking, above all, respect [for oneself or the other].

Hmmm too tired now and thinking I am off-topic a fair bit... I shall return :)

cheers!

ooohh hypronix... quoting from the gospel of St Thomas... you do know this would have made you a heretic until fairly recently and it is still not recognised as being official church cannon - not that I guess that bothers you since you incline towards Satanism :D.

Anyway... despite that... personally I feel it is a passage that many Christians would be wise to take note of - but as I say that's just my opinion.

In finishing though can I say I like the way your thoughts are on this -

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God is a name, a symbol, a label. When one finds God, one understands what this label meant for one all along, and finds peace within... sounds corny...

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may sound corny - but so often it is true :)

Z

The real question is not about whether or not God exists, but rather where an individual puts their "faith." And yes, everyone has faith in something, whether they recognize that or not.

When asking myself, "How was the universe created?", I choose to place my "faith" in a supreme being..God.., rather than a great glob dust and gasses that was floating around in space since the beginning of time, that just happend to explode at the right instance in time, developing the circumstances necessary to develop sentient life.

But the choice is ultimately yours.
____________________
The mentally disturbed are persecuted here in America, and I say rightfully so!
These people are NUTS!

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The real question is not about whether or not God exists

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Logically, it is more important whether He exists, than whatever my
opinion is of him. He can send your butt to eternal literal fiery
burning HELL FIRE regardless of your creed, or lack thereof.
:cool:

OK.....I have to lighten things up a little here...


What do you get when you cross an insomniac with a dyslexic and an agnostic??





Someone who sits up all night wondering if the really is a DOG.