Happy Easter to everyone too! :)
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Happy Easter to everyone too! :)
Happy big white bunny and hefty Dentist bills everyone...:D:halo::rolleyes:
happy chocolate time to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihil
Yeah, that is better phrasing. I'd have another choice of just saying that Jesus was very enlightened or had a stronger understanding of faith. I think the term prophet may even be a bit strong. But in light of what other religions consider as their prophets I'll go with that term, I guess. In a lot of ways I think people should also consider other great thinkers as prophets as well. To me, I think you can look at the teachings of Christ, I'm using that as a surname not in the Christian sense, in a more faith based manner. Take the churches or labels out of the question entirely. Don't think of him as a christian or a jew, but as a teacher of faith and humanity. Same as the Buddha or Mohammed or any other great thinker.
I'm sure these were all very simple and humble people that didn't intend for these stories of miracles and wonderous deeds to become so widely told. In a lot of cases people get so hung up on the wonderful story that they overlook the underlying message.
I'm still not sure how people can put faith into the trinity though. That one is truly a logical baffle. I think a simple explanation is that it is a very complicated way of solving the problem of needing to worship a man, but still say that you are monotheistic and that you only worship god. Who was that man, but not really, because he is also the spirit.
If anything, the world around us shows us that God is usually present in the simple details. This simple logical building blocks of the world around us that allows for such wonderful and complicated life. That is truly at the heart of the argument for a logical creator. Why would the same creator have this really complicated and confusing religion as his ultimate plan?
Not really trying to start an argument or offend anyone. Just presenting my piece of it. I think you can say that you believe in the teachings of Living Christ but are not Christian. Believing in the Living Christ does not require a literal belief in the Christian bible written after his death. Saying you are the son of god doesn't have to mean you are a diety. It could just mean that you think all of humanity is the kin of god. Saying you are Christian requires faith in the Bible as being divine more than anything else. Not really a belief in Christ. Just a matter of how you choose to interrupt it.
Hi Mohaughn,
You are absolutely correct, I used the expression "prophet" in the broader context of a "teacher", "holy man", "guru", "cognoscenti"...........whatever word(s) you like. I do not mean a "fortune teller" or "diviner of the future" :)
For those who are interested, this is how I explain the Trinity:
1. Imagine that you are a father of a young family.
2. You have a number of duties to your offspring?
[A] As a lawgiver........keep them in order, make the house rules?
[B] As a companion and playmate [ take them to the ball match etc.?]
[C] As an educator.......you teach them social and moral values, knowledge, skills and all sorts?
Well, that is the Trinity ;) Actually I think that Hidus have a similar concept, but the three principals are actually discrete individuals, rather than personalities?
just a few thoughts :D
Nihil,
another Trinity explanation is the Three Families concept
Every person is a member of 3 families:
His/her immediate family
The immediate community
The overall race of Man
a lot of parallels to 3
Apologies if this has already been picked up on (got to about page 17 then just couldn't face reading any more).
You say that appreciating the beauty of the earth is not a trait for survival - could it not be a way of ensuring that everyone does not commit suicide? I doubt that's something you can prove either way, like most of the arguments in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
ac
Couldn't have put it better myself! And the natural disinclination to commit suicide is present in all species and is indeed an evolutionary trait to ensure survival of the species. It isn't necessary to gaze at the wonder of creation to prevent the urge to kill oneself. That's totally separate.Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaughn
I understand your statement is just touching on the basis of Creationism, but I couldn't agree with this "logic" less. This statement is akin to personification. You're giving an inanimate and/or non-sentient thing an inherent purpose and means.Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaughn
A rock is simply a fragment of a larger piece of sediment/mineral.
A tree is an ends unto itself. It is totally unaware of humanity or just about anything around it not directly necessary for its survival. The plant is not even aware of the boot stamping it into the ground.
Animals & Plants are a ends unto themselves. We treat them as a means to our ends, but they will do well and exist without our interventions or participation. Aside from some isolated incidents of domesticated pets (even this cannot truely be proven), plants and animals do NOTHING for the benefit of humanity intentionally. They exist TO exist unto themselves as a species, not for our benefit. The fact that we find them useful is wholely irrelevant.
I disagree - I think these things were put in place for our benefit, to create the balance that would produce the perfect world for humans to live in.
I don't think the perfect world is achievable. If after the day of reckoning I get to meet the creator, I'll be asking why we had mosquitos, black flies and the norovirus.
I've had a hard time believing in predestination and the "reason for everything" crowd. I think through "free will" we will either work things out or we won't.
God is a libertatrian, we will succeed or fail on or own.
It's my philosophy but there's a lot of truth in "s**t happens".
Isn't this obviously not the case though? EVERY organism on the planet will expand beyond control or necessity given the opportunity. Look at grass for example, it's friggin everywhere. Nature (in general terms) is not concious, nor does it have intentions to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
The only reason why there is any balance, is because organisms don't have the capability to rival all threats, situations, and competitors. The balance is only there because everything is genetically predisposed to be the most successful lifeform as well. This is why Man is such a problem for the world--we can survive, persevere, and change our environment with relatively little challenge. Man has no balancing factors other than ourselves because frankly, we're just too darn good.
Don't believe it though? Simply look at the Zebra Mussel. Those buggers don't back down to anything--even thinnly disguised poisons. They've been killing The Great Lakes (alongside Man) for a long time now. Let me reitterate: Killing everything. Growing, expanding, and killing everything because it is too successful and starves the entire ecosystem from the bottom up. Either Satan fathered the Zebra Mussel, or the world is not so harmonious.
It's the Law of the Jungle--kill or be killed. Just about everything in nature is helpless to it. There is no harmony, only competition and struggle. This is life.
It's life once sin began to creep into the world.
Natural selection?:halo::DQuote:
Originally Posted by Evil Moo
Aha! But Sin is Man's curse and burden. Animals do no have souls according to just about every single variant of God worshiping faith. Animals are amoral, souless tools for Humanities benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
So, if animals are outside of sin and created for only perfect harmony and balance--how do you explain my prior post (particularly in reference to the Zebra Mussel)?
Once Eve ate the forbidden fruit, the devil was able to take hold of the world and it gradually became less perfect. Yes, even when it comes to the Zebra Mussel. Whoever said God controlled the earth? Right now, it's a battle raging in heaven.
The devil is a hard concept to swallow. Man is certainly able to come up with evil on his own. By having a devil, you give people a way of self justifying their evil. "the temptation was too great", "the devil made me do it" etc etc.
A lot of the world is less than perfect because we people let ethnic/political/religious differences spoil humanity.
EG:
One part of the world has a famine but another destroys crops to keep prices stable.
Concerned people raise funds, gather food but the local warlord won't let it get delivered to the refugee camp.
This isn't a lack of God or the actions of the devil, these are Man's actions
Christians/Jews/Muslims actually. The widely used justifications of, "Everything happens for a reason", "It's all part of God's plan", "God's will" etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira
If this isn't the case, it raises a few rather profound questions.
1) Does this mean God is not all powerful and there are other metaphysical forces in this cosmos that are equal/comparable in power which also deserve veneration? (Namely Satan/Demonic forces in this case)
2) Does God not love all of "his children" or at least care enough to prevent external forces from confounding them?
3) Is God like that of the Old Testament in which It acts whimsically, petty, and vindicitivly?
Think about those.
http://antionline.com/showthread.php...highlight=evilQuote:
1) Does this mean God is not all powerful and there are other metaphysical forces in this cosmos that are equal/comparable in power which also deserve veneration? (Namely Satan/Demonic forces in this case)
2) Does God not love all of "his children" or at least care enough to prevent external forces from confounding them?
3) Is God like that of the Old Testament in which It acts whimsically, petty, and vindicitivly?