Kazaa again, but more details

An armed group of refugees, gee you almost make it sound valid. How many people were in the house? how many weapons did they recover? Where the weapons loaded? Was there a fight? Who was the movie producer on site to get the most graphic shots of the boy crying in the arms of an armed intruder?

What would the Australian government do ? Well good qustion. Recently a crook stole a truck and was failing to pull over for the police. They (the police) followed him down the highway for sometime, keeping their distance following him. No attemt was made to block him or disable the truck and eventually the truck crashed into and ran over a car with an innocent old man in it, killing him instantly. He was still allowed to drive on and eventually crashed off the road where the S.O.Gs (Special Operations Group) finally sprayed him with capsicum spray and arrested him. In saying that, i suspect the Australian government would have sat on their asses out the front waiting for something to happen.

gore, have you got any spare room for me to crash in your opium den?

Gore, I have the utmost respect of you, but some of your reasoning I find hard to grasp. I’ll try to keep my comments short for brevity.

Let me try to understand. By legalizing certain drugs, albeit not the harmful variety, you believe crime rates will dramatically drop? Nothing is farther from the truth.

I’ll have to agree with you on one point: there are many medically acceptable uses for certain drugs, after all, they’re on this planet for some reason. But legalizing it is not the answer.

If Opium was clinically healthy and even beneficial to the mind, why would it be banned in the first place? Is there some notorious aura alone that convinces some countries it’s harmful? Consider the following:

“OPIUM, HEROIN AND CODEINE (the latter used in many cough medicines found in drugstores): Short-term effects of opiates like these include a state of “contentment,” detachment, nausea and vomiting. An acute overdose adversely affects the respiratory function, with danger of death. Does nonmedical use of these sound safe to you?” After all, you refer to Opium as “greatly increasing the activity of the mind.”

Let me ask a candid question: How safe would you feel on the highway knowing that a certain percentage of the other drivers have taken a drug that impairs their judgment and reflexes? Would you be calm when boarding a bus, plane, or train while recognizing that those responsible for your safety may be under the influence of drugs? “Already there have been cases of addicted airline pilots, train crews, bus and truck drivers, company managers, doctors, teachers and others in authority who have created dangerous situations through ‘going on a mission’ [drug slang for getting high] while on duty,” notes the Manchester Guardian Weekly.

If we legalize certain drugs, what prevents inappropriate usage, or inappropriate users from taking them? Schoolchildren will be virtually unopposed in their quest for a higher “awareness.” I don’t know if you have kids yourself gore, but who amongst us would like to see their own child smoking a joint? If they do it now, and its illegal, who’s going to stop them, when it is legal?

Here's some results from a recent study involving the licit and illicit uses of opiates:

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Effect on diagnosis of illness. An addict on morphine or heroin can feel and recognize pain. By making him more tolerant of pain, however, an opiate may lead him to postpone seeing a doctor or dentist when pain arises; thus treatment may in some cases be delayed and cure made more difficult or impossible. Poverty, of course, may also delay medical and dental treatment.

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Effect on pupils of the eyes. Opiates produce in most users a constriction of the pupils of the eyes, which can decrease ability to see well in the dark. This effect usually persists, even with prolonged use of opiates.

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Effect on digestion. The opiates are constipating. Indeed, codeine and opium itself (as tincture of opium or paregoric) are commonly used as a treatment for diarrhea. Some addicts must compensate for this constipating effect by taking a laxative or other aid to elimination; others have no long-term problem. "Street" heroin is sometimes adulterated with mannite, a mild laxative, to counteract the constipating effect.

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Effect on stability of mood. A very serious shortcoming of the opiates in common use, morphine and heroin, is their brief period of action. An addict must take his drug two, three, or even four times a day to forestall withdrawal symptoms. Addicts whose supply is uncertain may thus tend to "bounce" from a satisfied to an incipient withdrawal state several times a day.

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Effect on sweat glands. Some addicts report profuse perspiration, even after long periods on heroin or other opiates.

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Other side effects. Any survey of heroin users turns up a wide variety of other complaints; headaches, joint pains, hiccups, diarrhea, nervousness, running nose, difficulty urinating, and unhappiness were among the side effects reported in a recent Stanford University survey.46 These reports no doubt result at least in part from the natural human tendency of addicts and nonaddicts alike to attribute whatever happens to whatever drug one currently happens to be taking.

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Im going to bed now, so I wont be able to respond till tomorrow. Till then,

Showtime8000

First off, let me say that I think this thread should prolly be moved to cosmos.

Anyways.. I wanted to stay clear but I've got one comment.

Showtime8000:

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Let me ask a candid question: How safe would you feel on the highway knowing that a certain percentage of the other drivers have taken a drug that impairs their judgment and reflexes? Would you be calm when boarding a bus, plane, or train while recognizing that those responsible for your safety may be under the influence of drugs? “Already there have been cases of addicted airline pilots, train crews, bus and truck drivers, company managers, doctors, teachers and others in authority who have created dangerous situations through ‘going on a mission’ [drug slang for getting high] while on duty,” notes the Manchester Guardian Weekly.

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This is a horrible example. The number of drunk drivers on the road is incredibly large. They have taken a "drug" that has impaired their judgement and reflexes but other people still drive. You put safeties in place to try and prevent it, but regardless there will still be *******s that don't follow the rules. Drinking and Driving is a crime, but people still do it. While visiting my father over the summer, we went to see some of his friends. Every person who pulled up (about 5-10 people) got out of their car and had a bottle of beer in their cup-holder.. it's the way they do things up there. Me and some friends have done stupid things, one of them was driving down the road with everyone drinking a beer (except the driver. he was sober) but that's still illegal. One guy raised his bottle in a gesture of "cheers" to a passing truck. The driver of the truck raised a bottle in return. Yet this hasn't stopped people from driving cars, why would the usage of Marijuana and Opium be any different?

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
Yet this hasn't stopped people from driving cars, why would the usage of Marijuana and Opium be any different?

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That doesn't say much: just because everyone else does it doesn't mean its moral. Would you be more willing drive, knowing that a mind-altering drug was legal, than if it was illegal? People might be more ignorant of the law where your father lives, but it doesn't apply everywhere. Again, would you be more willing drive, knowing that a mind-altering drug was legal, than if it was illegal?

As always, I appreciate your input. Congrats on 800 :)

Thanks for the congrats, I hadn't even noticed it the milestone.


Anyways.... no it wouldn't make a difference to me knowing a "mind-altering" drug was legal. You pass the same laws regarding it that you do with alcohol, it's illegal to drive while under the influence. The actual law (at least here in Canada) says it's illegal to drive while impaired, which makes it against the law to drive while under the influence of a drug already. Hell, technically driving while tired is grounds for a ticket here because being tired impairs your ability to drive. My entire point was that right now your safety is affect by others under the influence of alcohol, it happens everywhere. That's why drinking and driving laws are so strict and that's why ride programs are in full force these days. Adding another element isn't going to change anything, sure they're may be a few more people but not enough that it's going to make a difference, there will always be impaired drivers on the road. The only difference will be what is impairing them. Should we ban alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and less than 8 hours sleep? Because any one of those things can also impair your judgement. There are also several others. How about getting a ******* while driving? That will definately impair your judgement but there's no law that I know of that straight out prohibits it. Maybe we should just ban sex as well. (I apologize for the crudeness and hope no one takes offence to the use of the word *******... and well if you do... meh)

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Originally posted here by Showtime8000
Gore, I have the utmost respect of you, but some of your reasoning I find hard to grasp. I’ll try to keep my comments short for brevity.

Let me try to understand. By legalizing certain drugs, albeit not the harmful variety, you believe crime rates will dramatically drop? Nothing is farther from the truth.

I’ll have to agree with you on one point: there are many medically acceptable uses for certain drugs, after all, they’re on this planet for some reason. But legalizing it is not the answer.

If Opium was clinically healthy and even beneficial to the mind, why would it be banned in the first place? Is there some notorious aura alone that convinces some countries it’s harmful? Consider the following:

“OPIUM, HEROIN AND CODEINE (the latter used in many cough medicines found in drugstores): Short-term effects of opiates like these include a state of “contentment,” detachment, nausea and vomiting. An acute overdose adversely affects the respiratory function, with danger of death. Does nonmedical use of these sound safe to you?” After all, you refer to Opium as “greatly increasing the activity of the mind.”

Let me ask a candid question: How safe would you feel on the highway knowing that a certain percentage of the other drivers have taken a drug that impairs their judgment and reflexes? Would you be calm when boarding a bus, plane, or train while recognizing that those responsible for your safety may be under the influence of drugs? “Already there have been cases of addicted airline pilots, train crews, bus and truck drivers, company managers, doctors, teachers and others in authority who have created dangerous situations through ‘going on a mission’ [drug slang for getting high] while on duty,” notes the Manchester Guardian Weekly.

If we legalize certain drugs, what prevents inappropriate usage, or inappropriate users from taking them? Schoolchildren will be virtually unopposed in their quest for a higher “awareness.” I don’t know if you have kids yourself gore, but who amongst us would like to see their own child smoking a joint? If they do it now, and its illegal, who’s going to stop them, when it is legal?

Here's some results from a recent study involving the licit and illicit uses of opiates:












Im going to bed now, so I wont be able to respond till tomorrow. Till then,

Showtime8000

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You mean kids being on Opium at school instead of an Amphetamine chemically related to cocain? HELL YES I would like that. Now, as for why would it be banned? Well, Caffiene is more addictive than Opium, and the "safe" amount you can have in your system is 250 MGs to 500 MGs, Thats 5 cups of Coffee. Not much huh?

Nicotine is far more addictive than heroin, and to get it, you smoke, which kills way more people than any other drug. I smoke, heh, Marlboro loves me to death lol.

Opium was legal untill 1914. How else do you think the chinese built our railroads for nothing pay without getting mad?

Now for those facts on Opium you listed, yes they are POSSIBLE, but I have yet to have a stomache ache from it which some people seem to get. The big long (yea, sorry it was long) lst of Opium facts, I added those because I know personally they are true.

Personal experiance is something most people dont take into consideration. And for the record Opium was made against the law because its addictive, not because of danger. As far as would I take a flight if I knew the guy was on Opium? Yes, I drive on Vicodin everyday. To be honest I concentrate much better and have a quicker reaction time.

They already did tests on this and showed some drugs that are against the law actually helped reflex time. I live in Michigan, people stp at signs of they feel like it heh. Gotta be quick here.

As for an Overdose causing death...Well yea, if you overdose on Aspirin you can die too. By the way, Aspirin does more physical damage to your insides than opium, and Im immune to aspirin, tylenol (Aceatominophen) and Motrin. Im completly immune to them, Opiates are the only pain killer that works on me.

Heh, sorry but when a drug has its most common side effect listed as "Euphoria" I dont think a law maker is going to stop ANYONE from using. (I refuse to say abusing).

Also, as for the highway thing...Well, Iv seen alot of drunk drivers, one of my favorite bands, Acid Bath, no longer makes music, The bass player (And an amazing one he was) was in a car with his Mom, Dad, and little brother, a drunk driver hit them, all of them died but his little brother, who was put in ICU.

Id rather drive while people were on a mild Opiate than alcohol. Also, MSN had in the news a few weeks ago, a new study PROVING that pot doesnt actually kill braincells, in fact researchers found a part in the brain that is designed for pot use. Opipate receptors in your brain are also not there for decoration,we were meant to use these gifts.

Also, in 1890, cocain was used as a tooth ache med for children. Heh, odd huh? Also, the constitution, is written on hemp paper. You wont find that in a history book. Well you can, just not one from school.

Alcohol was made against the law once, do you know why they lagalised it again? People did it anyway, Im still waiting for Opium to be legal again. I dont know how you feel about things but I am Christian, and God made the poppy plant, a gift to humanity, no law i going to tell me Im bad. They dont have a right to judge me, only God can do that.

And, I do not have kids, but it would be hypocritical of me to be mad if I saw my child smoking a joint. But if I did, I would talk to them. And if they had made the decision that they liked it, I would buy a plant and grow it myself. If they wanna do it anyway, then they can do it safe and me knownig no one laced it with anything.

If I caught my child smoking opium....Hmmmmm.... Heh, hope you got extra or your grounded ;) Lol, sorry but no, I wouldnt be mad if my kid smoked opium, if anything I would talk to them and be sure they know the facts, and then sit down with them and light up. Hell, its kinda hard to be mad on opium anyway.

For that last part, nothing stop people from using them the wrong way, like I said before, they would actually have to take responcibility for there own actions. Just like nothing stops them now from drinking.

I tried to get your comments from your post to show up but it didnt work, So Ill reread them and reply to it. And thanks for the respect part, I appreciate that.

Hehe, read em:

"Effect on diagnosis of illness. An addict on morphine or heroin can feel and recognize pain. By making him more tolerant of pain, however, an opiate may lead him to postpone seeing a doctor or dentist when pain arises; thus treatment may in some cases be delayed and cure made more difficult or impossible. Poverty, of course, may also delay medical and dental treatment."

Yea and when he gets to the DR and they give him a prescription for it for the pain..... Lol. If something hurts enough that it needs to be treated, youll know, thats the reason you allow yourself to come down, to make sure theres no pain after. Its not so addictive that you need a fix right after your done with the first.

"Effect on pupils of the eyes. Opiates produce in most users a constriction of the pupils of the eyes, which can decrease ability to see well in the dark. This effect usually persists, even with prolonged use of opiates."

Heh, yet you have an increased perception...Imagine how much more it would be increased if you werent stoned looking, lol.

The constipation one, Im not adding the quote, but if youv ever had the flu, this is hardly a bad thing.


"Effect on stability of mood. A very serious shortcoming of the opiates in common use, morphine and heroin, is their brief period of action. An addict must take his drug two, three, or even four times a day to forestall withdrawal symptoms. Addicts whose supply is uncertain may thus tend to "bounce" from a satisfied to an incipient withdrawal state several times a day."

This one here....No offence to you but thats total bullshit. Iv had withdrawels before, and after that day was up I didnt feel the "need" anymore. And from personal experiance, this is NOT true. They only do that in the movies.

Ill be back in a lil bit and reply more, but I have to run and get the truck for school so I'll brb.

**Thread moved from Misc Sec to Cosmos**

The discussion seems to have gone well beyond what Kazaa and crew are doing and seems more appropriate here.

bit of a winding topic this isn't it... starts off with Kaaza and ends up with opium. :confused:

nice couple of posts by the way Gore... I was going to mention some of the medical aspects myself... but I see you got that one fairly well covered :D

Z

Im back.

ok back to the discussion:

"Effect on sweat glands. Some addicts report profuse perspiration, even after long periods on heroin or other opiates."

Thats only half true, you sweat because of the actual warm, happy feeling that comes over you. Think about it, you can save on the heat bill by growing opium lol.

"Other side effects. Any survey of heroin users turns up a wide variety of other complaints; headaches, joint pains, hiccups, diarrhea, nervousness, running nose, difficulty urinating, and unhappiness were among the side effects reported in a recent Stanford University survey.46 These reports no doubt result at least in part from the natural human tendency of addicts and nonaddicts alike to attribute whatever happens to whatever drug one currently happens to be taking. "

Heh, sounds to me like they were joking when they filled it out lol. Diarrhea? Hmmm, but in the quote before that you said constipation, lol. Head aches? Pain? Yea right, youd be given and opiate for any of those in a hospitol. Nervouseness? Maybe if your worried about being caught with it.

Unhappines? Ok they lied, lol. Most common side effect is Euphoria, look that up in a dictionary. I dont think people have a rightto guess side effects untill they try it. For the record I didnt say anything about Heroin. And thats what half the quotes were basd on. Heroin is WAY more potent than opium. And if they were unhappy, then...**** I dont think they are, if they are its maybe because they need money for some and heroin is illegal. Moderation isalso a key. If you do it all day everyday...Well then that would be like drinking all day, when people are drunk they are usually happy, but do alcoholics look happy?

I guess What I am trying to say is; No I dont think its wrong or bad, but moderation is a key. Also I agree with Mittens on moving this because after a bad discussion (out of 500 Kazaa posts) I changed it around into an actual discussion.

Heh, yea zone, I think I got the bases covered on that one lol. And for the Grand Slam, so far I havnt been proved wrong, and also I have personal experiance, which you cant get out of a quote :) Good to have you on the team though.

I know that the big ass paper on Opium was long, but you gotta admit, its really interesting! Legalize opium again :)

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Originally posted here by TidaLphasE23

gore, have you got any spare room for me to crash in your opium den?

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I wanna point out, that everyone was all over him about the posts he made. And alot of people got angry at him because his posts were pretty stupid. But look at that. He makes an actual "nice" post that didnt flame someone (well part of it). And why? Opium! :) Need I say more? And Thanks for the discussion show. I love talking about this. Im not saying to everyone to go out and get high or nothing, Im just saying I dont think its wrong that I do.

The only withdrawels tidal has listed are for negs, not opiates too by the way ;) And after a million flame bait posts, he makes a nice one because of Opium. Lol.

Almost forgot:

I popped a Vicodin before I left. On the way home a girl ran a stop sign, I was doing 35 in a 25 MPH zone. She was less than a block away. Guess who REACTED QUICKLY WITHOUT PANICING and swerved outta the way with the breaks hit? Me. =)

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
Thanks for the congrats, I hadn't even noticed it the milestone.
How about getting a ******* while driving? That will definately impair your judgement but there's no law that I know of that straight out prohibits it. Maybe we should just ban sex as well. (I apologize for the crudeness and hope no one takes offence to the use of the word *******... and well if you do... meh)

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HAHA! No, they dont impair driving if your a good driver. Iv had some highway hummers and I didnt hit no one, lol. And no, I wont take offence, I think they feel good, kinda like Opiates :)

I wish this thread would simply be dropped from the database. It's crossed so many other topics and has nothing to do with kazaa at all anymore and people's opinions are all over the place.

We are not talking about drugs, we are not talking about various countries and their own laws and cultures, we are not talking about differing people on their opinions, etc etc. This was supposed to be about filesharing and kazaa.

Just let it go, damn...