Bad-Bye, Bad-Riddance, and Fair Poorly. Its finally over.

Just to interject a couple of items:

1. 'Daddy' didn't go further into Iraq and oust Saddam because he had no mandate to...the mandate of the coalition was to liberate Kuwait and de-moralize the Iraqi military to prevent another invasion...not invade Iraq...not to capture Saddam...if he had gone further into Iraq he would have lost the support of the politically relevant part of the coalition...which was heavily dependent upon the participation of the Arab nations.

2. Regardless of history...regardless of political participation...the fact is the buck stops with the one in office...and the decisions he makes while in office. We presently live in a society where everyone is to blame but the one who is responsible for making the decision...' my parents didn't love me enough ' my parents loved me too much ' ' I was born poor ' ' I lived in a bad neighborhood '...boo hoo...people trying to find excuses to alleviate themselves of personal responsibility for their own decisions and actions...

' junior ' IS responsible for the decisions he makes...you can blame it on Clinton...Daddy...Reagan...or even Jefferson...you can blame it on Daffy Duck for all I care...

the fact is...the buck begins and ends with him ( junior ) and the decisions HE makes while in office.

I don't believe that. I can't show proof or substantiating evidence, but I don't believe we went to war because Dubya was in office. I think Dubya GOT into office because the powers that be wanted to go to war.

Not sure if you are responding to my post or someone else's but...if it's in relation to responsibility, it doesn't matter how he got in or who put him there...whether the powers that be wanted to go to war or not...

the buck still stops with him. ;)

I find a very disturbing trend in society in the last 30 years away from personal responsibility...we are turning into a society of it's everyone's fault but your own.

Whether that's related to criminals, politics, life, addictions, etc...we excuse people's actions based upon the actions of others...

we need to re-inject some responsibility into society...before we end up with a society where no one is responsible for anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

I don't believe that. I can't show proof or substantiating evidence, but I don't believe we went to war because Dubya was in office. I think Dubya GOT into office because the powers that be wanted to go to war.

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I believe this is true also....

Yes the buck stops with him.....but his whole administration is responsible...

I think that Rummy\Cheney and the likes where pulling the strings.....all comes down to the Bush families ties...to business

MLF

More than just business, in my opinion. Certain covert organizations which have been functioning in the world for probably longer than I've been alive, like Majority 12, the world banking families (rountable of 9) and the trilateral commission, whose attack dog is the CIA, I believe they're behind most things of this nature, regardless of the administration. But the Bush family is 1 of them, and so no string pulling was required.

All string pulling aside...and despite the fact we are all aware of the covert back-door administration of the world as we know it...

the fact is...and this fact never changes...that ' junior ' , or whoever else is in there, still has the power to say ' yes ' or ' no '...

so...we can say he was pressured, that he was coerced, that he may have had a gun to his head...none of that matters...

because he STILL has the personal ability to withhold or give his consent.

Personal responsibility is in the decisions he makes...whether they are under pressure from outside forces or not.

The true power behind any sort of Democracy, whether your version or Parlimentarian is always going to be the lobbyists or corporate big wheels, back in the 1800's it was the coal barons, early 1900's to now is the oil barons, industry will always trump ideology, if the price is right.

As for responsibility.....it is the voter who should bear that responsibility or the one's who don't vote at all and have no real say otherwise.

look in the mirror, if you want to see who is responsible.:halo:

I think the point I'm trying to make is being over-looked.

There are things we cannot apply to a single individual...eg. acid rain, global warming, etc...

And there are things we can ascribe to personal responsibility...eg. I voted to go to war, I voted against raising the social security benefits, etc...

any time you have an opportunity to choose where you stand and what action you are willing to take you are responsible for that decision.

We are all responsible for our decisions.

We live in a society that loves to pass the buck.

Let's assume that the war was a bad idea...

power holders: George we need to go to war
Bush: no
power holders: George we need to go to war
Bush: I won't give you my support
power holders: George we need to go to war
Bush: no
power holders: George we will replace you
Bush: so what


see how easy it is. ;)

JFK said "no". Given what happened to him, I'm not sure that can really be considered a viable option.

My comments above were directly related to ShaqDevils comments of Bush-bashing and his attempts to divert blame away from Bush...so...I injected the discussion of responsibility...so...to continue:

Even if we assume this was a decision that threatened death...and let's further assume he was against it...

let's assume it was like this for the sake of argument...

in a few words:

The COURAGE of ones convictions!

Are Presidents supposed to be cowards?

Let's further assume that he was a coward and accepted a stand he was opposed to...

is he still not responsible for that decision?

Whether he approved of the war or was against it and forced/coerced into it...his decisions still fall upon his shoulders. ;)

Let's stop this trend to blame everyone and everything else for the decisions we make...we are responsible...the buck should stop at our door.