New User on Anti-Online (Does ethical hacking exists through legitamate means?)

Good day. This is my first of what I hope is many posts to Anti-online. I took on this website for a Computer project through my school and decided to join. I hope the people here are as informative as the other forums that I've been on and look forward to hearing your news and views on the various in demented discussions I may bring up. I'll start off with something basic...

Is there a place on the web where you can hack by legitamate means? A place to scan ports and try out different software to test your own skills and understand how hackers hack. I'm only interested in education and refuse to cause any mayhem to anyone. Don't post a response if your only answer is to simply hack anyone. I'm interested in the hacking process through a means that is educational, legitamate, and challenging.

Does it such a place exist? And I'm not talking about creating your own network (to hack internally)

Here's a list originally posted by n0odle and later reposted by |gridley| they may be one in the same. If you need anymore search wargames on google.
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...647#post787145

Welcome! :) In addition to muert0's advice, I'd just like to quickly recommend to you as a new user to quickly read the site's FAQ. Trust me, it will help you learn about the site and get a better feel for how thing's are around here. Not only that, but you will be told to read it some point in time anyways :D

Enjoy your stay! :)

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Originally posted here by soma56
Does it such a place exist? And I'm not talking about creating your own network (to hack internally)

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Although you say you are not talking about it....I'm curious why you want external nets
to play with.
None of the places online are a very good replacement for your own machines.
The Wargame/Hacking Contest/free shell sites can be fun but I prefer the flexibility of using my own
stuff.

One of the best tools I have seen to play around with is a default install of Red Hat Linux version
6.2. Crackers paradise on reboot after fresh install.

Cheers!!

muert0 - Thanks for the insight. I haven't checked the archives yet. ALthough, sometimes a fresh perspective or similar discussions on the same topic tend to bring out new information.

Spyder32 - Thanks for the "Welcome". I have been on several forums and am familiar with the unwritten rules (in addition to the written rules). I did look through the FAQ and found it to be more oeverwhelming if anything else. All of the subjects in the headers, for the most part anyways, seemed to be geared towards amatuers. Although I completley understand where you're coming from.

ss2chef - Your 'curious'? Allow me to explain. If I practice hacking into my own network I will already know what kind of computer it is. I will know the OS. I will know how fast it is. I will know what programs are running on it. I will know how to get in quite easily (Perhaps I should have explained this earlier however I just assumed you would know where I was coming from).

Hacking external networks through legitimate means, even if its a friends system across town, will allow me to strengthen my skills and better understand the field I am pursuing. A good defense is a great offense. Do you understand my philosphy now?

Hacking your own network (the one you created) to teach yourself,isn't that much different from asking yourself where fridge might be in your own home (you already know).

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Originally posted here by soma56
ss2chef - Your 'curious'? Allow me to explain. If I practice hacking into my own network I will already know what kind of computer it is. I will know the OS. I will know how fast it is. I will know what programs are running on it. I will know how to get in quite easily (Perhaps I should have explained this earlier however I just assumed you would know where I was coming from).

Hacking external networks through legitimate means, even if its a friends system across town, will allow me to strengthen my skills and better understand the field I am pursuing. A good defense is a great offense. Do you understand my philosphy now?

Hacking your own network (the one you created) to teach yourself,isn't that much different from asking yourself where fridge might be in your own home (you already know).

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You don't research and study by only hunting and pecking for the unknown.
Perhaps you enjoy the wild goose chase..?
I know many researchers in many fields of study.
Not may go freeloading around other labs hoping to stumble on something new or different.
Control is important to experimentation.

The thing is, if you know what you have in your own fridge, you will be in a much better position
to identify what is in anothers...To use your "analogy".

If you really know your stuff, the chance of running into the unknown is far less..IMO

ss2chef

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You don't research and study by only hunting and pecking for the unknown.
Perhaps you enjoy the wild goose chase..?
I know many researchers in many fields of study.
Not may go freeloading around other labs hoping to stumble on something new or different.
Control is important to experimentation.

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First, chill out. This isn't a "white hat's only" forum, so get off the soapbox. People learn different things in different ways. Asking questions and reading manuals didn't do a damn thing for me, because I needed hands on experience. I couldn't grasp how TCP/IP worked until I tried my own packets. I couldn't understand the concept of OS fingerprinting until I sat down and tried it. If he wants to learn (and may learn best for him) by trying it on legitiment networks that others have allowed him to test on, then let him do so without your holier than thou speach.

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The thing is, if you know what you have in your own fridge, you will be in a much better position to identify what is in anothers...To use your "analogy".

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This simply isn't true. As I said above, some people can't for the life of them grasp a manual or howto book, but once they get into that refrigerator and start tearing it apart, that's how they learn.

Some of the most brilliant hackers of our time came not from endless supplies of manuals, but from removing that phone handset and seeing what made it tick. Don't critisize his way of thinking.

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If you really know your stuff, the chance of running into the unknown is far less..IMO

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There will always be unknown, and text books certainly won't cover what you need. It's like a sage versus a scholar. A scholar can tell you what he has read about it, a sage can tell you about it first hand.

soma
I encourage you soma to learn in the way you feel best. If that means reading book after book, then go for it. If that means getting friends to setup machines for you, then go for it. Do what works for -you-, and not how others tell you to learn. I think your idea of how to gain knowledge and experience on the security world is going to be very effective for you and I completely understand where you are coming from.

So, listen to the people above who offered links on wargaming with others, and look into having one of your friends setup a machine for you. In the end, having you install some random OS is still going to be Okay. Because the footprinting of a machine to learn it's OS version is a peice of cake, as you will come to learn, and that shouldn't stop you from merely skipping that first part of a hack of identifying an OS... when you can already know the OS but learn the intriciate nature and mechanics of that OS as you dig into it.

If you have any questions, let me know. It's hard to find people who aren't "anti anything but white hat" sometimes ;)

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Originally posted here by pooh sun tzu
ss2chef
First, chill out. This isn't a "white hat's only" forum, so get off the soapbox. People learn different things in different ways. Asking questions and reading manuals didn't do a damn thing for me, because I needed hands on experience. I couldn't grasp how TCP/IP worked until I tried my own packets. I couldn't understand the concept of OS fingerprinting until I sat down and tried it. If he wants to learn (and may learn best for him) by trying it on legitiment networks that others have allowed him to test on, then let him do so without your holier than thou speach.

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Ummmm, who said anything about whitehat?
I was making suggestions. It's a forum pooh remember.

Everyone is free to do what they please.
I simply offered an alternative and then responded to a response.

Or are we only to digest your superfluous OP/ED rants?

To me, playing in a controlled environment is a better way to learn.

I have never said anything about whitehat EVER.

Your aggressive pontifications continue to cloud your otherwise well thought out
points.

chef:

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You don't research and study by only hunting and pecking for the unknown.

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Right, because that sounded exactally like a suggestion. We both know you are trying to convience him that your way of learning is better, as proven by how you handled his reasoning of why he wanted to learn via other computers than his own.

I'm aggressive when I see bullshit on the forums that is targeted at newer people for wanting to try something different than your suggestions. Right now, you're it. Accept that he doesn't want to learn nor experiement like you, and get over it.

Call it a deep seated problem, call it aggressive. But I can not stand it when someone want's to keep "suggesting" their "suggestions" even though they've already been told "no".

I've said it more than once... "I like punk but I ain't punk rock". Well the phrase seems mighty frikin' appropriate right about now. I like computers but the difference between me and everyone else in the world is in the fact that im not trying to be anything. I don't have to explain how the l33t h4x0r jazz is nothing but pointless idiocy... this thread is one mighty fine example of it all.

You people are argueing on how this kid should entertain himself, wow man. :rolleyes: Sounds like a bad joke about how R. Kelly & Michael Jackson should get to know one another better or something. Also, the whole hat thing... what can I say, your all ass-hats.