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I just saw it.
I really don't know what to say about this
it seems word would not be enough ..
on second thought , ya there is words that could be used
Stupid , useless , uneeded , why?.
well
my wishs go to all the victims
who happened to be on a plane at the wrong time
to all the people in the WTC.
and to the rest of the world , knowing that
this is not the end of this mess.
It was because of UN regualtions in the Middle East. I saw it comin', and I'm not even in the US.
Waiting lines at blood banks, no looting and rioting...bloody amazing. American unity amazes me.
Just got news of it. Waiting for word from an uncle that works in the WTC.
I found a word to describe it: SCARY
As bad as it sounds, I, as an American, feel that God has used this to bring America in general closer together, and closer to Him. There have been more people in church this past week than I can remember.
My thoughts and prayers are with everyone touched by this.
I do have some rather uplifting news.
My girlfriend's aunt works in the WTC, in the first Tower, on the floor and side that was hit by the plane. She always arrives at work early. Fifteen minutes before the plane hit, she had this feeling that she needed to step outside for some fresh air. She did so. Just as she stepped outside, the plane hit the building. Coincidence? Absolutely not. Divine intervention? Most likely. Was God behind it? Definitely.
I've heard many other stories of people being in places other than those where they were supposed to have been. If they had been where they were supposed to be, they would all be dead. I honestly believe that God was saving those that He could.
If you are offended by me speaking of my God, then get over it. I will not conform any longer to the ways of this world.
"Oh! say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh! say, does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"
That's undoubtedly one of my favorite songs right now. Please be praying for the people of our country (America). Also, pray for George W. Bush. I heard his address to the country Tuesday nite, and I instantly loved the man. He needs everyone's support right now. Don't let political differences tear our country apart.
Thank you.
God Bless America
Out of respect for, and touched by what happened, I won't post my reflections on what you said, PhirePhreak ('God has used this' - I don't want to start a religious discussion on this forum). I've written them down, though. You can always PM or mail me ([email protected]).
Trust and you'll be trusted, says the liar to the fool.
Lust and so what if you're busted? In love and war there ain't no rules.
Do you believe in forever? I don't even believe in tomorrow. The only thing that last forever, are memories and sorrow.
The prophets preach to forgive and forget.
I'm sorry, but I am unable.
Type O Negative Slow, deep and hard, 1991
Unsuccesfully coping with the natural beauty of infidelity - Anorganic transmutogenesis (synthetic division) yups...
Are you stalking me? ;)
Here's one for you...
LMAO. That's what I get for having a unique user name.
Done it before
Time after time
Refused to learn your lesson
Gave 'til it hurt
Thought it was right
Only fools make mistakes twice
:D
BTW, that was the old one. This is the latest. LOL
:( :( :( :( :(
My Prayers Go out to those families who have been affected by this terrible Incident.
UN-L337-R4ng3r
P.S: Read the antionline warning about fake email donations through paypal. I think they should string those conmen up by the neck.
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
I could see it coming sooner or later. I think before the military action that everyone is looking for they should really think why did this happend. No one is even looking into the American politics and foregin policy. I thnik that should be the first place to look into. Lets look back places like Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Yugolsavia ....
Another thing you can see that this is media driven war. CNN is calling on viloence and same goes for BBC. The answers lie in diplomacy and justice for all not just justice towards rich and powerful.
I also think that violence will not solve the problem. Violence proves nothing. I really feel sorry for all the innocent people caught in bad politics. But i guess innocent people are usually the ones that take hits for bad politicians. Sad very sad....
bAgZ... Clairvoyance is not my suit... And I don't think ANYONE seen this coming. This is the first time Jumbo Jets were used for guided missles on civilians. If this were an attack on an air base, US forces, the milatary in general... I would have let that last comment slip. But let us not forget WHAT the target was. It wasn't an accident. It wasn't collateral damage. It was an attack at the citizens of a country... I would remind you that diplomacy has been tried for the last 30 years when it comes to terrorism. I don't know how many times terrorists went free because of diplomatic negotiations. I would also say that the people who flew into the towers DID think violence was the answer. I don't necessarily disagree with your dislike for US policy. But the truth is this... Osama B hates the US for going to Saudi Arabia and putting up forces under the "invite" of the Arab goverment. And I don't remember the US government OR US citizens flying a jet on purpose into a civilian area where Osama lives. Let it be known too, that many countries removed occupation of US influence with less drastic messures.
It is a sad thing that has happened. I wish there was another way... But the way I see it... I'm being caught in the politics of the terrorists... NOT the US's. And there is not ONE country that has not had terrorism. Are ALL the terrorists good guys fighting against evil government?
This is not a flame of you bAgZ. I know your feelings of sadness are genuine... It is just my point of view.
The US certainly has areas of its foreign policy that could use improvement (every country does). However, this didn't happen because we're supporting Israel, or we have troops in one place or anther. This happened because the those behind the attacks thought they could get away with it. Bin Laden (I identify him because it appears that even if he wasn't directly resposible he at least played a significant role) saw the way that we investigated terrorist activities in an effort to bring those responsible to trial, and he didn't believe that we would ever put in enough effort to actually catch him.
We projected weakness, and that allowed some very bad people to believe that we wouldn't have the polical will to do anything that would really harm them. However, I think and hope that they have been drastically mistaken. At the same time I think it's important that the US leaders make sure that they don't start destroying innocent people. That said, as it seems that these terrorists only understand one language, I think it is time that we finally began speaking it to them.
About Bin Laden: I thought there was something like 'everyone is innocent, until proven guilty' in the US of A. I don't question his involvement, but I remember having had a discussion about freedom of speech in one of the forums. For those who strongly believe in that amendment, I have one question: do you take Bin Laden's call to arms as freedom of speech? And s1lv3r_f0x, about your 'fight violence with violence': America won't send a small commando to eliminate Bin Laden, believe me. They will bomb his camps, destroying innocent people will be inevitable.
Who are those innocent people anyways? Civilians? And soldiers are the guilty ones?
Hey Negative.
I like that last line in your post.God Bless AmericaQuote:
Who are those innocent people anyways? Civilians? And soldiers are the guilty ones?
Now, not to excuse what happened, or to deny any responsibility on the part of the Hijackers, but it is important for everyone to take some time to reflect on this question: "What part did I have in this?".
To say the US was an innocent bystander would be a bit off. To say we brought it down upon ourselves and that we are entirely at fault would be preposterous too.
The thing is, terrorism is a product of a vicious cycle of sociopolitical affairs. To simply bomb a country that 'harbors' terrorists only makes the situation worse, magnifying the feeling that the bomb-ees that they have no way to protect themselves except to try to scare people off.
Why do you think they chose the WTC as a target, as opposed to, for instance, Lincoln Memorial, or some historic US-government location? (Although the White House may have been on the list, but it's such a big target for looks, it wouldn't matter if it was historical)
The message most of the rest of the world probably gets from America is not "Freedom and Liberty", but "Corporate Advertising.". I mean, go to Singapore and watch the jeepneys go by with so many people in, on, and around these cheap-private-originally-decorated buses, and what shows? A bra advertisement on the side. China, Coca-Cola.
Much of the world must have the impression that the US is actually controlled by the big companies! The companies which siphon off the wealth of the less-developed countries with the corporate version of the Golden rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.
Small wonder that the WTC was chosen! This is not an attack against 'freedom and liberty', but an attack against economic attack! Against sanctions which only harm the non-rich, against economic and developmental exploitation.
As for "Bombing Afghanistan into the Stone age", the problem is again that the people you really want to get rid of... well, they have bunkers to hole up in. Does the cripple on the street? No. Oops! Too bad. 'Surgical Strikes' do not a virus cure.
Negative, I'm not going to even approach the freedom of speech argument as the terrorist actions were clearly that, actions. If bin Laden had stuck to merely denouncing the United States, I would have no quarrel with him whatsoever. However, if he had stuck to mere words there would be a lot more people alive today.
As for the intricacies of the American legal system. Well, that's an interesting subtlety, if you are a citizen of the United States, you afforded the right to its protection. He is not. Furthermore, and mor importantly, there is the issue of scale in this instance. There is a grey area to be sure, when does something cease to be a horrible crime and become an act of war?
Lastly, I'm afraid that you may be right regarding the methods that will be used to root out Mr. bin Laden. I agree that the best way to go is probably some sort of a surgical strike team. The aquisition or elimination of key individuals was part of what created the Navy SEALs. They would probably be an excellent choice for a snatch-and-grab type of mission. However, I fear, as you seem to that the leader will prefer the less dangerous (to american forces) method of dropping bombs and launching cruise missles.
oh, and the guilty ones are those with the guns that are defending bin Laden. They don't have to be soldiers, they don't have to be civilians. The lines have gotten very fuzzy over the last twenty years or so; but they are a self-selected group that has chosen to join a movement that brings a very real threat to each and every one of us, and they must be stopped.
Those with guns that are defending Bin Laden are the guilty ones? I guess that makes those with guns that are defending America the guilty ones in THEIR eyes. That explains why they focused on civilian targets, doesn't it? It's not for us to judge who's guilty here: those who defend their superpower position by all means (bombing civilian targets, isolating countries what results in even more civilian casualties, just because a friendly country was invaded, or because they just wanted to show they're still a superpower), or those who fight against that (by, indeed, flying airplanes into civilian targets)? When an American feels threatened, he'll do anything to take that threat away. When a muslim feels threatened, he'll do anything to take that threat away. Those responsible for the attacks, however, are willing to give their live to take away such threats. And that is something more threatening than any bomb.Quote:
oh, and the guilty ones are those with the guns that are defending bin Laden. They don't have to be soldiers, they don't have to be civilians. The lines have gotten very fuzzy over the last twenty years or so; but they are a self-selected group that has chosen to join a movement that brings a very real threat to each and every one of us, and they must be stopped.
And for those in favor of military action: "Every new orphan is a potential terrorist."(Editor of America Magazine )
When I grow up I wanna be a terrorist.
First and foremost I think that it is important to understand that the recent attacks were not the actions of muslims. They were the actions of terrorists. Those terrorists may have been muslims, and some may assert that they were fighting a holy war, but to the best of my understanding they do not speak for Islam.
With that said, what I'd really like to hear (rather than a semantic argument with little substance) is what those reading this forum, especially those who are not US citizens, feel should be done here. As an American, I have a pretty good feeling for how US citizens feel, but I'd really like to know how the international community sees this situation.
What would be an appropriate response?
Where do we draw the line between "defending the safety of the civilized world" and "killing religious activists"?
"Don't worry dear, you're already very terrifying. But you need to go brush your teeth now! The Barbie toothpaste or the Mega Man toothpaste?"Quote:
Originally posted by Eating_Scarlett
When I grow up I wanna be a terrorist.
:D
What a dumb BITCH!!Quote:
Originally posted by Eating_Scarlett
When I grow up I wanna be a terrorist.
:fu:
At age 21 and she makes comments like that???
"THE STUPIDITY IN TODAY'S YOUTH":confused:
Well......I don't really no what to say, except that I am for military action on the part of the US. I believe that some actions should be met with violence. The difference between me saying this and anyone else on this duscussion board is that I will be fighting. After the completion of diving school I am under review for SEAL training(I have a knee that has given me problems once or twice so I am unsure as to whether or not I will be accepted), and am already an Army Ranger.What happend in New York was a very terrible thing and someone has to answer for it. Also, about the surgical strikes, I don't think any of you understand how difficult that really is. Especially with an organization the size of Ben Ladens.
I'm not going to start another discussion here (I know I probably will), but I have a few comments. About the violent actions you (and cowboy Bush - 'wanted: dead or alive?' HAHA) are proposing: I hope you guys know what you're up against: an army, financed by American tax money, that is. In the late 70's, early 80's, the CIA gave people like Bin Laden millions of American tax dollars to help them fight the 'evil commie' Russians. 'Operation Clean Hands' or something. Before you guys start denying this: I got it from official CIA reports. And Lascaux, one question: I have to admit I don't know anything about surgical strikes (except for the stuff I learned from Tanya, that cute little Command & Conquer character), but Bin Ladens organisation hardly has 2000 'active members'. Shouldn't be that hard, I think, or will it? (This is only a question!!!)Quote:
Well......I don't really no what to say, except that I am for military action on the part of the US. I believe that some actions should be met with violence. The difference between me saying this and anyone else on this duscussion board is that I will be fighting. After the completion of diving school I am under review for SEAL training(I have a knee that has given me problems once or twice so I am unsure as to whether or not I will be accepted), and am already an Army Ranger.What happend in New York was a very terrible thing and someone has to answer for it. Also, about the surgical strikes, I don't think any of you understand how difficult that really is. Especially with an organization the size of Ben Ladens.
Negative, where are the documents that you've referenced? I'm sure that you're correct, but I'm genuinly interested in where I can get more info on this and any other operations that have been made public.
Here's some general background on bin Laden:
Washington Post , stating 'The organization may have several hundred to several thousand members. It draws from a pool of more than 50.000 Afghan war veterans and other radical Muslims.'
Quote from BBC:
.Quote:
The Afghan jihad against the Soviet army was backed with American dollars and had the blessing of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Quote from
CRG
Hence the word 'ironically'.Quote:
Prime suspect in the New York and Washington terrorists attacks, branded by the FBI as an "international terrorist" for his role in the African US embassy bombings, Saudi born Osama bin Laden was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war "ironically under the auspices of the CIA, to fight Soviet invaders". (Hugh Davies, International: `Informers' point the finger at bin Laden; Washington on alert for suicide bombers, The Daily Telegraph, London, 24 August 1998.)
Man, I could go on like this forever. Give me some time and I'll get you the official CIA funding reports.
Research powered by Mr. Google.
First, whoever said they wanted to be a terrorist when they grow up (I'm too tired to check again and see who it was) is a rather sick person. And dumb to. Even if you were going to become a terrorist, would you want to tell everyone about it? Terrorists are sorry individuals.
Next, I've seen a lot of people trying to blame the attacks on US diplomacy. Even if we did make some mistakes, does that mean that the attack was right? Innocent people died for some psycho's "god". I'm going to try to not get into another religious discussion, but does anyone know of a god who tells people to go out and kill innocents? Is that how you gain converts to a religion?
There have been numerous times when the USA has gone to the aid of other countries who needed help. But no one else helped us. Usually, we've been able to solve problems on our own. But now, we do need outside support for a war not just on Afghanistan (and Iraq, from what I hear), but on terrorism in general. This is a completely different kind of warfare. And we need all the support we can get. Several of my friends have already been deployed overseas, and I might not ever see them again.
This attack was designed to bring America to chaos. But it has done just the opposite; it brought us, as Americans, closer together. In the past week, I have seen more American flags being proudly displayed than ever before in my life.
Yeah, we've made mistakes in the past; everyone has. But why hold that against us now? I don't necessarily agree with everything my country has done/is doing, but I completely support it, because I believe that America is among the greatest countries on Earth.
Good nite, and God Bless America
These are radicals who are REALLY bending the laws of the religion. Would you say that the KKK would be a good example of Christianity? These guys are NOT mainstream in Islam!!!Quote:
Originally posted by PhirePhreak
Next, I've seen a lot of people trying to blame the attacks on US diplomacy. Even if we did make some mistakes, does that mean that the attack was right? Innocent people died for some psycho's "god". I'm going to try to not get into another religious discussion, but does anyone know of a god who tells people to go out and kill innocents? Is that how you gain converts to a religion?
The French. American Independence. Do they teach nothing in schools these days?Quote:
There have been numerous times when the USA has gone to the aid of other countries who needed help. But no one else helped us.
I think it was intended to just get attention (however trite that sounds), not chaotic.Quote:
[/b]This attack was designed to bring America to chaos. But it has done just the opposite; it brought us, as Americans, closer together. [/B]
When I grow up I wanna be a terrorist. Well I wasn't quite being serious when I said that, but...
This **** is ridiculous. Man is responsible for the technology that will destroy him.
Talk about irony.
Damn PhirePhreak, you made this thread personal by that last post.
Thx Terr for taking that one. And btw Terr, what did you do with my brain???Quote:
Next, I've seen a lot of people trying to blame the attacks on US diplomacy. Even if we did make some mistakes, does that mean that the attack was right? Innocent people died for some psycho's "god". I'm going to try to not get into another religious discussion, but does anyone know of a god who tells people to go out and kill innocents? Is that how you gain converts to a religion?
I'm from Belgium, and yes, the States did help us some 50 years ago. We're a small country, so it's obvious we can't fight an army two times the size of our population. We can't deploy a huge army, so we specialized in other things: Belgian army is considered to have the best minesweeping teams around the world, for example. But I guess that's something they don't show on CNN. 'No one else helped us?' EVERY EU-country had troops in the Gulf during the Gulf-war. And EVERY EU-country offered its help in the 'war' against terrorism. And before you start whining about that, Afghanistan is not in the EU. Just ask, and I'll give you some background on the EU, their goals and laws. One of those laws is that whenever a EU country is attacked, all other countries will come to aid. That's what we do over here, helping each other. And we're pretty good at it.Quote:
There have been numerous times when the USA has gone to the aid of other countries who needed help. But no one else helped us. Usually, we've been able to solve problems on our own. But now, we do need outside support for a war not just on Afghanistan (and Iraq, from what I hear), but on terrorism in general. This is a completely different kind of warfare. And we need all the support we can get. Several of my friends have already been deployed overseas, and I might not ever see them again.
It's too bad it took a tragedy to bring you guys closer together.Quote:
This attack was designed to bring America to chaos. But it has done just the opposite; it brought us, as Americans, closer together. In the past week, I have seen more American flags being proudly displayed than ever before in my life.
God bless humanity.Quote:
Yeah, we've made mistakes in the past; everyone has. But why hold that against us now? I don't necessarily agree with everything my country has done/is doing, but I completely support it, because I believe that America is among the greatest countries on Earth.
Good nite, and God Bless America
I've been reading this post for about a week now... If I didn't know better, I would say some are getting a thrill out of the fact that the US was attacked by terrorists..
European countries do have allot of unity... Maybe the US should have more riots over a bad call at international soccer matches.Quote:
It's too bad it took a tragedy to bring you guys closer together
Every country has pride. And every country has problems. Even Belgium. How about world unity? Instead of who is better, how about the tolerance of different ideas and people? After all, intolerance is really how all this started.
I'm not ready to insult the solidarity of any country. What I am really worried about is world solidarity. We may live in a different place on this earth. But we're all human after all.
I do hope you're not referring to me on this one.Quote:
I've been reading this post for about a week now... If I didn't know better, I would say some are getting a thrill out of the fact that the US was attacked by terrorists..
You've got a point there. It would be nicer if Europeans would unite through soccer (we call it 'football', btw ;) ), instead of waiting for let's say a stadion to collapse. I was only trying to say that it shouldn't have taken a terrorist attack to bring the Americans closer together. I know you are proud of living in one of the greatest countries of the world, and you should be. Sorry if I insulted your solidarity. And PhirePhreak: I won't apologize to you, because you were wrong...Quote:
European countries do have allot of unity... Maybe the US should have more riots over a bad call at international soccer matches.
Never looked for an apology Negative. Just hoping that some day there is no intolerance of any country or race or religion. And thank you for the kind words...
The United States has invaded the lives of many around the globe. There is no excuse for it. They have many means and them unwisely... The words "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies here.
And Negative... Seen on the news that there was a bomb factory found in Belgium. There is no amount of countries that have to thank the Belgium government for finding that.
The point is that we should have no words that involve the word "Country". We are all the same really. And we should never use the country bounderies as a divide.
Also... There is NO excuse for what happened in NY... I know you agree with that.
Actually, I got the vast majority of information for that post from a newspaper article that has become a widely distributed e-mail. I'll try to track it down online for you and link to it later.
I accept that fact that you disagree with me, but you can't call me wrong just because of a minor disagreement.
I'm looking forward to see your source on the 'There have been numerous times when the USA has gone to the aid of other countries who needed help. But no one else helped us'-stuff, PhirePhreak. I didn't mean to call you 'wrong', I indeed only disagree with you on that one... No hard feelings, of course.
Hello? Get over it.
Around 7000 people died from these attacks.
24 000 people die from hunger every day (www.thehungersite.org)
Have a nice day :)