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I am a college student conducting a sociological study on hackers and hacking. I mainly concerned about the ethics of a hacker. What it is that you guys believe. Why do you do what you do? Do you feel that it is right? Do you seperate yourselves from crackers, or are they essentially the same term? Feel free to answer this or email me. Rant as much as you want, I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say. Thank you.
I would like to point out this site was established as a security site. A lot of people here are trying to learn about computer security and how to protect themselves from the hackers and crackers. It is unfortunate that some may use this site to gain knowledge on how to do malicous things but as far as I can tell most members do not support people trying to gain this type of knowledge.
Antionline is a community of people trying to help and learn from one another to make the industry better. I fell it is a mistake on your part to stick everyone on this site in a catagory like "evil hacker" when you abviously know nothing about this site or the people using it.
I am sure that people better than me will reply and give you much more thoughtful and intelligent responses to your question but here is my .25 of a cent (live in canada bad exchange rate up here)
1) the header on the top of the page "hackers know what is in your system should'nt you..implies that this is an educational site teaching and sharing information on how to protect our computers..
2)just ask a question such as "how do I hack into......" and see the replies you get on this board. That will demonstrate how we are different
3)I can say it no better than this
I hope that this helps you in your studies a bit. But please allow me to close with this. Am I a hacker...not yet but I am learning. That is I am learning to use my computer to the best of my ability. I am learning to tweik my O/S to it's max. I am learning to get my software to do what I want it to do not what someone else wants it to do. To change programs to suit my purpose. That is my interpretation of hacking. What other people do is malicious and that goes against my beliefs. Other's may have a different idea and that's ok this is just my thought's and they are allowed to be different since i am.Quote:
Originally posted by KapperDog
Not being a senior member here, I may be out of line but I believe most of the seniors will back this post.
First of all, welcome to Antionline.
Antionline is a forum for discussion of technical security issues.
Most of the regular contributors here concentrate on the practice of PREVENTING hackers from entering your system and doing damage, not hacking into others.
If you ask questions like, "How do I hack into my schools computer" or "How do I hack into Hotmail", you will most likely receive a "Negative" response.
If you came here to learn how to hurt other people or to engage in illegal activities, don't expect a lot of help.
If you must be malicious, go here and follow the instructions. Then go here and learn about trojans. You'll be reformatting someones drive by nightfall.
That's it. Unless you are willing to spend a lot of time reading and learning, your hacking abilities are going to end there.
On the other hand, if you are willing to spend some time and put forth an effort to learn, you will find this a very helpful and friendly site.
For starters, here are a couple tutorials:
The Happy Hacker provides some entertaining and easy to understand information.
Here is another nice tutorial called Digital Voodoo
There have been some excellent posts made here by some of the members. If you have a specific question, go here to search the forums. Your question may have already been answered before.
Most of all, enjoy yourself and remember.... hacking is not about hurting other people or destroying someones data. It's about the computer, how it works and why it does the things that it does.
The computer is a miracle of the modern age. A blessing that should be treated as such. A hobby that will never end and can provide you with a lifetime of enjoyment.
Enter the computer with patience and understanding and it will return the same. Enter with evil and deception and you will eventually receive your just reward. If you don't feel this way, I believe you may be at the wrong site.
Anyway, welcome to Antionline and welcome to the world of computers. I hope they are both as rewarding to you as they have been for me.
Hacker? who's a hacker? what is a hacker?
I thought this was a security site?
I don't want to get off on a rant here but....
I personally do what I do for the security aspect. Just as an anti-car theft expert has to know how to break into cars, hotwire certain models, and know the faults of other models - so do the network security experts have to know how to break into other peoples systems. Its the only way to protect your system, knowing how to break in.
Its all about how you use your knowledge. Do you use it to protect your system, break into others (not doing any "harm") to show them their vulnerabilities, or break into other systems just to say "look what I can do mommy!"
A good deal (but not ALL) of the crackers are nothing more than "script-kiddies" who grab a file off the net, run it, and have no idea the basics behind what they just did. Its like getting an explosives expert to rig a building with explosives then handing the detonator over to a 10 year old and saying "wow, look what you did!"
I boils down to the same BS that divides normal law abiding citizens and vandals - I can throw a rock through a window, but I choose not to.
Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Dennis Miller)
Have you seen this? It's part of AntiOnline's "Hacker Profiling" section. This specific page is called "The Categories of Hackers (Grouped By Motivation)"
http://www.antionline.com/hacker-pro...I/category.php
Here is a post from the past that should help you out.
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...=hacker+ethics
Here's one more that might be useful.
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...=hacker+ethics
Hope this helps.
Here's a link to a site that defines the hacker culture pretty well.
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
I started my field as a hacker, i had lots of links to the ppl all over the world which were in this field too they used to guide me , how to do this and how to do that e.t.c. , I was very sucessfull in this field till last december i gain control over all the internet cafes in my city 3-4 in other cities, One multinational company of Australia 2 PC in LOndon and atleast 20 users in India. I wasn't felling inner satisfaction , in the mean time i passed a certificate exam of hacking, and i Join this site.
What missing in me was that i don't want to do this (hacking) for breaking laws i just wan't to learn how these ppl break our security , when i joinned this i thought thats what i was looking for and thats what i want to do .
Now what im doing here in my country is that im educating ppl. and awaking what hackers can do and how they do ? By doing this they should be aware how to protect themselves from such problems.
I personally agree with Craisins that Crackers are nothing but "cript kiddies" i should add they are lamerz they don't have knowledge they just work on the tools and utilities provided by the ppl whom i call Hacker.
As i have posted earlier that hacker are ppl. who have strong programming skills they develop software and these cracker use them to break law.
Quote:
Originally posted by KaKoKoOl
I started my field as a hacker, i had lots of links to the ppl all over the world which were in this field too they used to guide me , how to do this and how to do that e.t.c. , I was very sucessfull in this field till last december i gain control over all the internet cafes in my city 3-4 in other cities, One multinational company of Australia 2 PC in LOndon and atleast 20 users in India. I wasn't felling inner satisfaction , in the mean time i passed a certificate exam of hacking, and i Join this site.
Wow. Just can't resit the envy of saying "I'm the best über-hacker 'round here". You ünterman.
Educating people ? Not in spelling I hope. Or maybe this is the new way of writing english ?Quote:
...
Now what im doing here in my country is that im educating ppl. and awaking what hackers can do and how they do ? By doing this they should be aware how to protect themselves from such problems.
Talking about "script kiddies", have you written something personal ? Instead of "cut-paste"-ing the whole bunch of tutorials you have ?Quote:
I personally agree with Craisins that Crackers are nothing but "cript kiddies" i should add they are lamerz they don't have knowledge they just work on the tools and utilities provided by the ppl whom i call Hacker.
If you posted that once, you're twice wrong. Hacker are not especially people with "great programming" skills. They are people who enjoy to learn and want to "push the bar" really really high.Quote:
As i have posted earlier that hacker are ppl. who have strong programming skills they develop software and these cracker use them to break law.
A trivia example is that if you take a safe, a real hacker want to know "how to get stuff in out" without asking for the code. But he won't necesseraly be the one who knows everything at safe design.
But, well, continue calling yourself a hacker. You know who you are, and we start to know you too ...
Jean-Francois
Yes... on IRC you said you were a 'Certified Hacker'... certified by WHOM? It all depends. I could have a degree from a famous college in computer sciences, or a degree from Buttsniffer university of the town of ThreePeopleLivingHere... It all depends on who you got it from. And if you are already 'controlling internet cafes' for multinational companies... You must have mis-entered your ICQ information, saying you are 19... so which thing are you lying... no, which this is FALSE? Being 19, or being some bigshot? Or are you saying you're a PRODIGY too?Quote:
Originally posted by KaKoKoOl
I started my field as a hacker, i had lots of links to the ppl all over the world which were in this field too they used to guide me , how to do this and how to do that e.t.c. , I was very sucessfull in this field till last december i gain control over all the internet cafes in my city 3-4 in other cities, One multinational company of Australia 2 PC in LOndon and atleast 20 users in India. I wasn't felling inner satisfaction , in the mean time i passed a certificate exam of hacking, and i Join this site.
The people who break laws are 'crackers', 'hackers' are good guys. At least, that's the slashdotted-crowd-opinion.... :DQuote:
What missing in me was that i don't want to do this (hacking) for breaking laws
--> Terr it's not impossible, I mean I run security for all of Microsoft AND Intel, and do some beta-testing for VISA on the side, and I am only 6 years old and speak 14 languages, two of which i wrote the dictionary for. So give a guy a break, lol.
ok lets see the point
could anyone tell me why internet is progresing each day
why programs are in change ,they more secure ?????//
why tiny software is making a really good NAT PAT ,firewall....
why microsoft is pointing more to the security (let say this)
why.......why .....
ok
i think that everyone of us know something about this why
hackers maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right but lets say
"they are good enough to make things change for better"
that is what i think about them
bye
Quote:
Originally posted by Terr
Yes... on IRC you said you were a 'Certified Hacker'... certified by WHOM? It all depends. I could have a degree from a famous college in computer sciences, or a degree from Buttsniffer university of the town of ThreePeopleLivingHere... It all depends on who you got it from. And if you are already 'controlling internet cafes' for multinational companies... You must have mis-entered your ICQ information, saying you are 19... so which thing are you lying... no, which this is FALSE? Being 19, or being some bigshot? Or are you saying you're a PRODIGY too?
Well there is nothing wrong abt. my age according to My YOB i.e 1981 im 20+ u can c my date of birth on ICQ and as i have told u that i m using computers when i was 12 and if im not mistaking i said im hacking for last 3 yrs. i think a person at age 20 and 3 yrs in the field of hacking can easily gain control over the Cafe's and Companies if he/she know how to do that .
Adding one more thing abt. myself i've done my graduation in Computer sciences (BCS) recently. Abt. that certificate im not saying that the certification exam that i have passes is world wide recognize or I have done a remarkable thing.
The people who break laws are 'crackers', 'hackers' are good guys. At least, that's the slashdotted-crowd-opinion.... :D
Before i join antionline i was a (cracker 80% and hacker 20%) and now i have changed my line and learning things that could help me for fighting back in this cyberspace and which i've left learning in the past.
What I like with this guy is that he has such a small conversation that he has to quote the whole text he replied to.
Also the "When I was young <bla bla bla> I was a dreadful hacker <bla
What I like with this guy is that he has such a small conversation that he has to quote the whole text he replied to.
Also the "When I was young <bla bla bla> I was a dreadful cracker <bla bla bla> and I was one day touched by honnesty <bla bla bla>"
Jean-Francois Gobin
KaKoKoOl, you still don't get that quoting-thing, do you?
Well, allow me:
[You start by quoting Terr:]
[Then you reply to that quote:]Quote:
Originally posted by Terr
Yes... on IRC you said you were a 'Certified Hacker'... certified by WHOM? It all depends. I could have a degree from a famous college in computer sciences, or a degree from Buttsniffer university of the town of ThreePeopleLivingHere... It all depends on who you got it from. And if you are already 'controlling internet cafes' for multinational companies... You must have mis-entered your ICQ information, saying you are 19... so which thing are you lying... no, which this is FALSE? Being 19, or being some bigshot? Or are you saying you're a PRODIGY too?
Well there is nothing wrong abt. my age according to My YOB i.e 1981 im 20+ u can c my date of birth on ICQ and as i have told u that i m using computers when i was 12 and if im not mistaking i said im hacking for last 3 yrs. i think a person at age 20 and 3 yrs in the field of hacking can easily gain control over the Cafe's and Companies if he/she know how to do that .
Adding one more thing abt. myself i've done my graduation in Computer sciences (BCS) recently. Abt. that certificate im not saying that the certification exam that i have passes is world wide recognize or I have done a remarkable thing.
[You make it sound like Terr said this...]
I just realized we're getting off-topic here again...
So Timmy, may I suggest The Mentor's famous last words ?
When I was younger, a hacker was someone who loved computers. They loved to take them apart, put them together, upgrade, write software, use software, or find anyway to use a computer instead of something else (pictures, music, etc). If you were watching a hacker, you didn't see someone sitting in a dark corner with punk metal music playing and government programs scrolling across the screen. It was just a normal person using the computer, knowing what the difference between RAM and ROM, knowing about network configurations, knowing the difference between a computer running a program and someone thinking it's crashed because it takes more than 1 second to load a program. If your friends needed help, you were the man/woman they turned too. You were the person in the know about computers. Just like having friends that are masters of auto mechanics, you were the master of the computer mechanics so to speak. It was just a knack you had, you didn't know how the hell the engine in a car works or how to manage your credit card debt. When it came to computers though, that was open country for you. It didn't matter what it was, if it had buttons and an enter key, you could figure it out. It didn't matter what the program was, given enough time you would figure it out. You were the one that knew all the "undocumented features" of software/hardware. With that knowledge you can lead a professional career, help your friends, help others across the world through the Internet. This doesn't make you a god-like being just because you know the difference between ftp and http. It was just something that people respected about you, just like you would respect things about them. My best friend could rebuild the engine in my car as fast I could rebuild his PC. We both respected each other for that, one didn't make us better than the other.
But.....as time goes on.
Computer crimes galore, website defacing, stolen money, what was the source of it all? Well gee wiz, a hacker was someone who knows a lot about computers and well this is all computer related, so I guess only a hacker could pull this off. Now a days with the media turning this into a circus, a hacker became a cracker that became criminal because he was a hacker to begin with. The term hacker must mean someone who breaks into computers right? Or wait, a cracker was, but he had help from the hacker right? Or maybe a hacker and cracker are the same, let's tell the public that. The term has been used and abused so much, I wish they would invent a new word. I use to smile when people called me a hacker, but now I shy away from the term. Yeah, we all know better here, but the rest of the world doesn't. We now hide behind names such as Security Expert , (insert software here) Certified , (insert hardware here) Certified , and Computer Expert .
Ok, after that long speech, I'll answer your questions with my opinion:
1) I believe that when we take a great interest in something, we learn as much as we can. Experiment, exchange ideas with others, and most of all enjoy every moment of it!!Quote:
I am a college student conducting a sociological study on hackers and hacking. I mainly concerned about the ethics of a hacker. What it is that you guys believe. Why do you do what you do? Do you feel that it is right? Do you separate yourselves from crackers, or are they essentially the same term? Feel free to answer this or email me. Rant as much as you want, I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say. Thank you.
2) I do this because it's just what I am. We are neither ashamed of what we are, nor are we so proud that we are blinded into thinking everyone else is inferior to us.
3) If it didn't feel right, we wouldn't be here to begin with.
4) Most separate themselves from crackers. One doesn't consider himself/herself to be the same as the other
counter-part so to speak.
I don't have a long list of defaced sites or a database of credit card numbers to prove I'm a hacker or a cracker. I don't think your question related to that anyway, hope this long winded reply does help though ;)
This will probably help you weed out the banter from the information. If you look under the screenname of members you will see boxes of different colors if you click on them it will tell you approxametly how many positive or negative antipoints someone has.
positive antipoints (green boxes) - that is good, that user is respected and is to be listened to.
Negative antipoints (grey boxes) - this means that that user is not to be listened to and his opinion should be taken with caution.
P.S. look at my previous post for an answer to you're question.
I do not think that is exactly what JP says in his post regarding Antipoints. A person can get grey in many ways for there post's a person can receive negative points and still have valid points in there posts. You can receive negative points because a person doesnt like you, disagree's with your post or any other reason someone decides to give you a negative vote. Just because a person's colour is not green does not mean the person is not to be listened to . as you state as you state "this means that that user is not to be listened to "Quote:
Originally posted by grigri9
Negative antipoints (grey boxes) - this means that that user is not to be listened to and his opinion should be taken with caution.
mike
Kako: I am being fair by disregarding your past posts. However I am amazed by your latest ones. I will not go to the trouble of Quoting you. As far as I can tell, you need to remember exactly what kind of people are reading your posts. Some of us might be simpletons......cretins......ect. Yet many are not. First of all your claims are incredibly bold. Apparently you are "L33t", so you say. Yet I see little tangible evidence to support your claims. Your Grammar is poor, perhaps you are learning the language, I have given you the benefit of the doubt on that issue. Yet you persist in telling us all that your 80/20 Hacker Cracker, bla bla bla.............. If I was a profiler, I would most certainly classify you as a Masochist, hell bent on being flamed. As I tell my Employees regarding their performance, "Dont tell me how good you are, Show me!" I will repeat myself because I am only on my first beer, of many to numb me from reading your drivel. Only a fool, admits, claims, recounts, spews.......Ect. Knowledge of a specific nature, as you do. If you need negative attention, your in heaven now buddy. I said before speak your mind, yet filter it through your cortex first, much like those routers you "Own" all over the planet. Information must be properly processed to be effective.
Good Liars give details, Clever ones Give None.
-Heard it somewhere.
After beer 7 I realized that my spelling sux. Thus the edit.
Lamerz? Hmmmmmmm. Anyway, this was just funny, because I thought of: Crypt Kiddies!!! They are either PGP junkies, or a new kind of shambling undead creature to find in dungeons!Quote:
Originally posted by KaKoKoOl
I personally agree with Craisins that Crackers are nothing but "cript kiddies" i should add they are lamerz
True, Antipoints are hardly everything. Why, just today, I looked at my overview screen... and... it's weird. I got THREE green antipoints in the row, at the same time, with the same comment... can you say: "Bug in system."?
As for negative antipoints....
Grey means you have nearly 0 antipoints... grey could either be only a few positive antipoints, or only a few negative ones. Red means you have a significant number of negative antipoints. Green means you have a significant number of positive ones. So if you see a lot of reds, then it's probably bad...
At least, that's what I'm guessing because of the antipoint image names. Whether JP uses the red ones eventually or not, we'll see. I think the grey ones in the 'recieved antipoints' are supposed to be red, though, since you can't vote nuetral.
Did someone say PHP? This would appear to be "the perfect troll" :) Appears, posts once and revels in the ensuing mire of flames and lamerz ;)
Anyway...I've been a hacker since I was 2 or was that..anyway..yeah where was I? :)
I always thought a hacker was someone who gets his hands dirty messing about with code.
Now thats changed though and I don't know what the hell I am.
I've never broken into a computer system that I didn't own and certainly never defaced a website.
What am I? A coder, a hacker, geek?
Maybe youre a security enthuasist, I think I strive to learn but unlike real hackers lack the amazing ability to take on any aspect of computing.
Crackers well real crackers I suppose are hackers who want to make things easy for themselves by disrespecting their ability by abusing it. They are skilled but dont use these skills for constructive methods.
Hackers - Personal Satisfaction
Crackers - Personal Gain
Script Kiddies - Personal Gratification/Pride
Security Ethuasists - Personal Safety on the net.
I think you'll have to clarify exactly what you mean by "hacker." If you're refering the the standard script kiddie defacing websites their motives are pretty simple and well documented.
But there wouldn't be any of those around here, right?
Hackers are your friends! They are the guys you turn to when something goes wrong on your computer, they are your tech support, they are Network and System Admins. they are the geek that lives down the road...they ARE NOT the ones defacing websites...breaking into bank accounts and sending virii!!!! This is an evil evil misconception that have given many good people a bad rap. When a person breaks into a bank and needs someone to open up the safe, they call on a safe cracker not a safe hacker...script-kiddies and crackers are not the ones to be blamed for nothing...I am not a hacker...I am not good enough...but someday I will be...and I don't want to be thought of as the guy you should look out for...so the next time you talk to a hacker...thank him/her...you'll make their day a whole lot better...thank you!!!!!
:flash:
I read this page for security tips and tricks. I also rather enjoy reading alt.hackers. According to alt.hackers a hack is a work around to problem encounter. A hack does not have to involve a computer.
If we are going to get into defining a hacker I will give the dictionary version then my personal
Main Entry: hack·er
Pronunciation: 'ha-k&r
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : one that hacks
2 : a person who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity <a tennis hacker>
3 : an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer
4 : a person who illegally gains access to and sometimes tampers with information in a computer system
Hacker
My understanding is close to number 3. A person who solves problems with a computer. But I also believe it goes into modifying the system or software to make it function to a manner that we want.
mikey
I just want to thank you guys for all of your input. I don't know a whole lot about hacking or this website, but I do appreciate all your help. If any of you are interested in answering some more in depth questions, please email me at [email protected]. Thank you again for your help.
:D
some one ont his board has what i think a good defintition of a hacker is please post a msg to show everyone what it is? whoever u are