Life or Prison !

I have one simple question if the government decided to enforce more laws on the Internet that would retain to invasion of privacy and such would it be worth Protesting for or letting the government declare that it is "Security" and let them decide what is right. I personally don't see many protests anymore about the way the government is taking away or rights and civil liberites.I see the media and other major government officals telling us what to do and herding us like sheep. I don't thinkg send e-mails, or having or senators speak for us is doing anything any more. Maybe it's a bad idea, maybe it's a good one what do you think?

Right now in the states they are arresting who ever speaks out and are holding them with out charging them. When this happens ask yourself if you will be next for disagreeing with the government. The new laws that Bush has signed they are almost as bad as the thought police in Afganastan.Before long will our doors be broken down and taken to jail because we said something on the web that the government didn`t like or visited a site that was not considered appropriate. Be afraid people be very afraid of lossing your freedom.

There should be something done to tell the government, that yeah, we'd like you to catch the terrorists and we'll give up a little privacy, but no we'd rather that you didn't take it all. To fight a dictatorship(The Taliban), the Bush administration is slowly becoming a dictatorship. Sort of like 'to catch a hacker you have to think like a hacker.' I don't really like it, but I don't plan on doing much to get in trouble for. But when the first case of horribly unfair invasions of privacy then let the protests begin...

It's good to know that people on this board know what's going on with our country. I find it still astonishing that the average american still isn't aware of this.In my opinon every one and everything should have a idea about what Bush administration is doing. Maybe I missed the live telecast, or radio show but I haven't seen a damn news article that's been published or a t.v. news show even talking about it. Does the government consider that talking to the american people about the loss of there civial rights to be an act of terroism or protection. I know that the media latley has been active with the topic of anthrax, and Bin Ladin. But what about this, what type of diversions would the government go through to pre ocupy us. After all the u.s. people are just sheep being herded by the government.

Life or prison eh?

The choice is a difficult one. If I kowtow to the oppressors won't I effectively be a prisoner? Wouldn't I be more free in prison, ok they can deny me my physical freedom but never my freewill.

More dangerous radical thoughts to follow, that may land me up in prison. *lol*

PZ [Bastard Philosophy]

I've said it here before and I'll say it again.

'The days of revolution are well and truly dead.'

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ennis
I've said it here before and I'll say it again.

'The days of revolution are well and truly dead.'

---

*Heh* Well I don't know what the hell you are yabbering on about again ?! Aren't you the kid that uploads p0rn onto AO server then removes it with a thousand appologies *grin* You ain't even old enough to understand what a revolution is, so STFU.

The days of r Evolution and adapation are still going strong as far as I'm aware... Darwin hit the nail on da head with that beauty. So whatever sneak system the entity (known to many as the Military/Intelligence/Legal/Judicial/Policing i.e. control system) evolves in it's armoury of control weapons, there will be a counter measure to circumnavigate it's effectiveness *wink*

The only loser in this evolutionary war are the innocent bystander citizens losing all their rights and liberties *har har*

:D
PZ [Ageist Bastard]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Zest


*Heh* Well I don't know what the hell you are yabbering on about again ?! Aren't you the kid that uploads p0rn onto AO server then removes it with a thousand appologies *grin* You ain't even old enough to understand what a revolution is, so STFU.

---

Yes, I am that kid that made a slight mistake, rectified it and didnt expect a childish flame for it either.

Maybe I am not old enough to understand revolution, Im not. That saddens me, however I feel old enough to ignore you're childish, yes childish, post and move on and let you babble and just sit back.

Enjoy yourself, you are indeed a funny man......

Quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Zest
The days of r Evolution and adapation are still going strong as far as I'm aware... Darwin hit the nail on da head with that beauty. So whatever sneak system the entity (known to many as the Military/Intelligence/Legal/Judicial/Policing i.e. control system) evolves in it's armoury of control weapons, there will be a counter measure to circumnavigate it's effectiveness *wink*

The only loser in this evolutionary war are the innocent bystander citizens losing all their rights and liberties *har har*

---

Hold your horses, Paul! If you want to quote geniuses, at least do it correctly.
Darwins theory is about evolution and adaptation, that's correct. Evolution is a gradual - as in by degrees, or little by little - development to something better or higher, revolution on the other hand is a brusque change. Revolution is NOT what Darwin's theory was about. The counter measures you talk about do not fit in Darwin's theory...

There's no such thing as an 'evolutionary war': 'evolutionary war' is a contradiction pur sang. Point.

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You ain't even old enough to understand what a revolution is, so STFU.

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I'm pretty sure no-one on the AO forums (except for the guy that is older than God) is old enough to really understand what a revolution is...

Well I usually like Negatives replies in this forum but unfortunately he sometimes jumps in feet first without engaging his brain, for the sake of looking clever :D

Quote:

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Hold your horses, Paul! If you want to quote geniuses, at least do it correctly.

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Usually a quote is surrounded by a recognisable quotation identifier. i.e. <quote> some quote </quote> or something like, Negative wrote "Hold your horses ..." however I never actually saw any such quote around anything I wrote??! Stop reading too much between the lines there Neg me old Waffle. *snicker*

Quote:

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Negative wrote, incorrectly.

Evolution is a gradual - as in by degrees, or little by little -

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What the hell did you get your PhD in Neg?! certainly not evolutionary systems *hehe* There are other theories on evolution ya know, you seem to be refering to the 'gradulism' theory. Maybe you ought to read up on 'punctuation' theory for example *wink* before you start making ridiculous statements, like that.

Negative went onto try and show Paulie up with his magnificant knowledge and grasp of weighty issues in the field of evolution / revolution.

Quote:

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Neg's uber brain somehow hiccuped and burped :D

revolution on the other hand is a brusque change. Revolution is NOT what Darwin's theory was about. The counter measures you talk about do not fit in Darwin's theory...

---

*hehe* Yeah okay, you were thrown by the Darwin redherring (Darwin da Grandaddy of evolutionary theory ... *cough* updated abit in his absence i.e. It's EVOLVED a bit since Neg's last voyage on the Beagle *grin* )

So go readup in your Encyclopedia Brittanica rEvolution, as in punctation theorist version of evolution, mkay.


=====
Duh!

Splitting hairs again, ey Neg *wink*

Quote:

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There's no such thing as an 'evolutionary war': 'evolutionary war' is a contradiction pur sang. Point.

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That's what it's all about buddy, a continual struggle to survive in an ever changing environment. i.e. I'm using a metaphor of war to describe an evolutionary arms race between different entities in order to maintain some kind of stasis between periods of punctuation, get it? *wink*

Neg, went on to try an use my own example against me, alas showing big gaps in his understanding of things he proports to be an expert in *Ha*

We are living in a constantly changing revolution system. Okay many people, when they think of revolution they are thinking of the big ones like the French Revolution, the Russian Communist Revolution etc etc ... but you're got to appreciate smaller scale revolutions are going on all the time around us.

I'm not old enough to compete with the guy older than God in the AO age stakes but I certainly remember the end of communism in Eastern europe revolution .. and to a lesser extent the problems in Africa... also we are going through a hi-tec globalisation revolution *cough* the Internet atm ... so STFU you idiot *ROFL*

PZ

Just kidding Negative, I like your posts usually.

Hey could we keep to the topic.
Thank you

reading this thread actually made me stupider

Quote:

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Originally posted by Bradleylamar
reading this thread actually made me stupider

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Then don't read it. I don't want to be responsible for the stupidification of our youth...

Quote:

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Originally posted by freeOn
Hey could we keep to the topic.
Thank you

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Sorry, freeOn. I'll try to interweave the original topic with my reply to Mr. Zest's reply... Damn, I hate replies to replies...

OK, Paul, here it goes - feet first without engaging my brain, for the sake of looking clever :)

Quote:

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Usually a quote is surrounded by a recognisable quotation identifier. i.e. <quote> some quote </quote> or something like, Negative wrote "Hold your horses ..." however I never actually saw any such quote around anything I wrote??! Stop reading too much between the lines there Neg me old Waffle. *snicker*

---

I was wrong to call it a quote, but when you said "Darwin hit the nail on da head with that beauty" I assumed the "THAT" was referring to "The days of r Evolution and adapation are still going strong as far as I'm aware... ". If not, the discussion ends here: you were right, I was wrong (dang, it hurts to admit that).

To continue with the other possibility:

As I said before: Darwin NEVER spoke about revolution.
(There's one exception: he uses the word "revolution" in Chapter 9, where he calls 'Sir Charles Lyell's grand work on the Principles of Geology' a revolution in natural science - and when he's talking about the revolution his 'Origin of the Species' will effect.)

Quote:

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The infamous 'quote in a quote'...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Negative wrote, incorrectly.

Evolution is a gradual - as in by degrees, or little by little -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Incorrect? Blame Mr. Darwin, don't blame me:

Quote:

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The Origin of Species, chapter 14, Recapitulation and Conclusion - Charles Darwin - 1859
Nothing at first can appear more difficult to believe than that the more complex organs and instincts should have been perfected (...) by the accumulation of innumerable slight variations, each good for the individual possessor. (...) that any organ or instinct, or any whole being, could not have arrived at its present state by many graduated steps.

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"Innumerable SLIGHT variations", "GRADUATED", there you have it ;)

Quote:

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Maybe you ought to read up on 'punctuation' theory for example *wink* before you start making ridiculous statements, like that.

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I didn't make a statement, I quoted Mr. Darwin...
And the gradualism vs. punctuation-discussion indeed is pretty interesting: the general trend seems to be that
someone comes up with a good idea which then is subsequently copied - and most of the time refined (the Japanese seem to be pretty good in that), and every now and then someone else breaks the trend with a revolutionary new idea. - and the circus starts again... And I didn't copy-and-paste this from the Encyclopedia Brittania (which, I must admit, is the best around).

Quote:

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So go readup in your Encyclopedia Brittanica rEvolution, as in punctation theorist version of evolution, mkay.

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PUNCTATION? As in 'a punctated lady-bird'? Now you got me all confused, Paul, I'm afraid my brain is going to hiccup and burp again ;) <-- Splitting hairs again

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*hehe* Yeah okay, you were thrown by the Darwin redherring (Darwin da Grandaddy of evolutionary theory ... *cough* updated abit in his absence i.e. It's EVOLVED a bit since Neg's last voyage on the Beagle *grin* )

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H.M.S. Beagle's voyage round the world forgot to stop in Belgium... (And don't start making funny comments on why that was...) :)

Quote:

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Duh!
Splitting hairs again, ey Neg *wink*

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Now that would be DNA-research and stuff, I'm not into that :)

Quote:

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quote:
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There's no such thing as an 'evolutionary war': 'evolutionary war' is a contradiction pur sang. Point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what it's all about buddy, a continual struggle to survive in an ever changing environment. i.e. I'm using a metaphor of war to describe an evolutionary arms race between different entities in order to maintain some kind of stasis between periods of punctuation, get it? *wink*

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Aye, Aye, Sir. A metaphoric contradiction... nice :)

Quote:

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Neg, went on to try an use my own example against me, alas showing big gaps in his understanding of things he proports to be an expert in *Ha*

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You got me there, Paul...
"Don't mistake lack of talent for genius..."

Quote:

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We are living in a constantly changing revolution system. Okay many people, when they think of revolution they are thinking of the big ones like the French Revolution, the Russian Communist Revolution etc etc ... but you're got to appreciate smaller scale revolutions are going on all the time around us.

I'm not old enough to compete with the guy older than God in the AO age stakes but I certainly remember the end of communism in Eastern europe revolution .. and to a lesser extent the problems in Africa... also we are going through a hi-tec globalisation revolution *cough* the Internet atm ...

---

When I said "I'm pretty sure no-one on the AO forums (except for the guy that is older than God) is old enough to really understand what a revolution is...", I meant that revolutions most of the time are not recognized as being revolutions at the time they're going on... At the time they're going on, people speak of it as being an evolution. Time will decide wether it should be called an evolution or a revolution...

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so STFU you idiot *ROFL*

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You sound like my boss, you know...

Damn Ok negative I think you cleared that up and were still able to put in the flame. How do you do it? lol. (joking, don't take personal)

Quote:

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'The days of revolution are well and truly dead.'

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How can you believe in that. They are not dead. . Revolutions are started by radical ideas. We change the way of doing things every day and in every aspect.

We can change the way bussinesses do bussiness, why can't we change the way the government does it's bussiness.

Well there is something we can do and it does work. Why dont you find out your congress mans E mail address and start sending him complaints eventually the more there is the likelyhood it will bring about another bill to counter act the other one. You just got to know how to play there game. Also starting a web site for complaints for everyone to reply to will get you some good attention, also lets not forget the media the devil of them all. You know they love a good story and a Really good fight. Just remember bush works for us we put him there his ass can be gone in less then 4 years.




Play the game with there rules and turn it against them ( loop holes ) IT WORKS....

Quote:

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Negative wrote:
You sound like my boss, you know...

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*hehe* :D


Anyway back to freeOn's original post, which seemed to be hinting at concerns over the US governments increasing invasion of peoples privacy on the Inet.

freeOn wrote: "I personally don't see many protests anymore about the way the government is taking away or rights and civil liberties."

Well maybe you need to do a bit more research into it freeOn, there are still plenty of people concerned over these issues. Yes maybe the tabloid news has run with it for a bit and dropped it, but the civil rights activists are still debating these issues as intensely/fresh as 0day. You need to widen your search a bit.

Here is a nice lil story about the Canucks (Canadians) kicking their governments BigBrother **** in the proverbial bollocks.

CANADA PLEDGES TO DELETE "BIG BROTHER" FILES

URL ... http://www.freecongress.org/Centers/...01.htm#story10




There are many other Civil Liberties news portals like this, probably the most notorious is ACLU

URL ... http://www.aclu.org

======

slight aside:
Freedom seems to exist somewhere between two extreme poles
Anarchy/Chaos/Social Breakdown and BigBrother Control . As you tend towards either ends of these two! freedom/free speech/civil liberties somehow appear to be threatened.

PZ

I'm new here, but is everyone on here pretending to be a psuedo-intellectual with a puffed-up ego?

I've never read such sophistic drivel in my life, and if this is any indication of the posts... ooooh the government is evil and they're probably going to arrest me because I like personal liberty and freedom of choice... then this is the last time I'll waste my time on this site.

Quote:

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Originally posted by DrKevorkian
I'm new here, but is everyone on here pretending to be a psuedo-intellectual with a puffed-up ego?

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Nope, I'm the only one...
BTW: why would anyone PRETEND to be PSEUDO?

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I've never read such sophistic drivel in my life

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'Sophistai' means 'teachers of wisdom'. The negative connotation to the word was added much later (as in 'it's not about who's right, it's about who wins the discussion' - Dr. Kevorkian was pretty good in that, too).

Quote:

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and if this is any indication of the posts... ooooh the government is evil and they're probably going to arrest me because I like personal liberty and freedom of choice... then this is the last time I'll waste my time on this site.

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It's not an indication of the posts, it's an indication of MY posts...
So you don't have to waste your valuable time on this site if you just ignore my posts.

You like personal liberty and freedom of choice? I bet you do, but you want to deny others the right of personal liberty and freedom of choice...

Dr. Kevorkian... pffff....

I have to admit I quite enjoyed reading this post, Negative and Paul Zest flaming each other in ways most people would simply back down from but both coming back with excellent posts.

And it seems they have a silent respect for each other anyway.

ahhhhh, my first post and already a response from what I gather is the resident droll.......my task is complete...

another post from the dept of redundancy dept

btw, that is a really cool avatar... pfffff

I just could not resist posting to this thread.Even if Zest doesn't respond I'm hoping negative will.
First of all a question:
If I teach a monkey how to hit the keys on a typewriter in a random mannner how long will it take said monkey to produce the complete volume of shakespears works?Don't know?
I will answer the question myself then:NEVER it can't happen
The probability surpases 10 to the 40th power(the borderline for a questioned event to happen in 10 billion years ,it was set I think by Emile Borel maybe someone else knows)

Evolution defies the laws of probability
The universe itself SCREAMS intelligent design.Call it "God" or the "force" whatever you like. Read "Evolution a Theory in Crisis" by Michael Denton(He is a microbiologist and anti creationist)
It is a very interesting book.His conclusions on the matter are panspermea(life was seeded from another planet) Or the "hopeful monster" theory(in other words a chicken sat on an egg it just laid and produced a monkey) that Zest is so fond of. The 'punctuation' theory is absurd in the extreme

That is why I believe in a Supreme Being

Lets get this thread going its too good to die
Well.....Negative in the words of the human torch "FLAME ON"

The thoughts of having sophisticated monkeys roaming around our streets wearing coat & tie are probably slim to none, I agree. For they will never complete the works of Shakespear...genomes...DNA/RNA...these are the things that differ the monkey from us...human beings. Beings that revolt against whatever bounds that hold us down...we are going to the moon...why you ask? Simply because we want too...and we don't like it when anything stops us. Knowledge...is wanted to be aquired...so what do we do...grasp it. Evolution...development,...unfolding,... growth. All synonymes meaning one thing...progression. Whether mentally, or truly phisically, we, as human beings, will always evolve...and revolt.

Concerning the governments issues with privacy rights...signing statments saying "hacking is an act of terrorism" then suddenly whipping out Magic Lantern...revolt. When the government states: "Killing is bad"...yet we have an army,...the death penalty,...the right to bear arms...revolt. All the government does is stricken the people with lies. Yet we, as Americans (for those of whom are) prosper...whether be faithfully...patriotically...considerably...evolution.

The monkey can write the complete volume of shakespears works, cause otherwise there wouldn't be the probability that surpases 10 to the 40th power. You need to make a difference between micro situations and macro situations. There is only 1 maro situation for the monkey to write the complete volume of shakespears works but there are many micro situations the monkey does not write it. So there is only 1 micro situation that could get us to the macro situation for the monkey to write the complete volume of shakespears works.
A simple example: there arte many ways to mess up your room but there is only one way to get it in order. (The monkey has also one way to write the complete volume of shakespears works)

So larryjs

Quote:

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NEVER:it can't happen

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I do not agree with this:

Probability is statistical so it could happen but the change to that is very, very small.

First example
If you calculate the chance to win the lottery the way larryjs says, it seems it can't be won. And actually there are people that do win it. Your chances are just very small.

Second example:
If you are 87 years old the chance you will die tomorrow is almost 100% when you are still alive the next day would this be a miracle? NO
The chance is statistical!
From the people born at the same year of the old man, tomorrow there will be almost 100% dead.

In case of the monkey the chance is so small it almost reaches the limit neever but it is not never.

Are more important question is: when the monkey do actually write the the complete volume of shakespears works is it then a copy or an original work?

I think you misunderstood me Vic. The 10to the 40th limit is set
by the currently accepted age of the universe at 10 billon years.
The monkey could not complete the works because he doesn't have enough TIME (Let's just say this hypothetical monkey is immortal or very nearly so) Remember he has to reproduce the entire volume letter for letter.This means in some random sequences he gets thru the first chapter...then he prints one charecter out of order..well he has to start all over again..Then in the second sequence he gets thru the first play and messes up on the second
Back to the drawing board he goes starting back with the first letter.
With every letter he types the odds increase exponentially that he will not hit the next one right. Do you still believe the monkey can do it VictorKaum?

Now the odds of this happening can't touch the odds of life rising from non-life.
Lets chart a breif course
1) amino acids combine randomly to form proteins(we will discuss the pre-biotic soup later to show how IMPOSSIBLE this is)
2) proteins combine randomly to form DNA( all protens must be left turning or they will be anti-biotic)
3) DNA arrangement rightly codes the simplest cell

Thats the an extremly simplified chart for life from non-life

I still believe the monkey can do it.

He has plenty of time cause:
when you look at the complete volume of shakespears works written by the monkey as 1 event in spacetime the chance that event will ocur is very small but there IS a chance. So it will take the time to write it just as it did for shakespear to write them.
No one says the monkey is going to make some error and restart, probably he would so... but that's not sure that's statistic

Another example:

If you throw dieces the chance that it would be hundred times 6 is the same as the chance to throw for instance 1 time 6, 4 times 5, 10 times 2, and so up to hundred. Difficult to believe but think about it, this is true.

Reason that we think the chance isn't there or smaller: the micro situation to get to 100 times 6 is = always throwing 6 so that the macrosituation becomes 6 x 100 = 600
Now this '600 macro situation' is very unique cause the only way to get to that is by using the microsituation '6' hundred times.

So the monnkey could theoretically also be very unique in his macro event = the complete volume of shakespears works.
A small error makes that it's entirly wrong -> chaos theory


In theory this works.

A quote by DrKevorkian:
"ooooh the government is evil and they're probably going to arrest me because I like personal liberty and freedom of choice... then this is the last time I'll waste my time on this site"


Have you ever tasted tear gas? Have you ever gotten it in your eyes and all through your clothes? It's retched.
Have you ever seen police dogs let loose on people who were at a protest? And watched helplessly as the police dog bit a man so badly that his flesh was hanging and bone was visible?
This is a photo from the G20 Summit that i attended in Ottawa, Canada this past November.

We have every right to protest peacefully, and stand up for what we believe in. We don't deserve to be beaten and tear gassed by police officers who are employed by our government [by our taxes]

If we don't have freedom of choice then we have no reason to live.

What's this nightmare doing back on the front page.

lets make it easy:

house of representatives:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/

Congress:
http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.html

E-mail does have an impact. If you don't like something let them know.

hahahahaha!! this thread has evolved into something quite different..no pun intended
i do find the debate on whether a monkey could type shakespeare highly amusing... much like debates " i bet spiderman could kick batmans ass" amusing.
hahaha!!:argue:

(going back to the original topic)
Life or Prison
Firefemme, yup, been there done that and it bloody hurts. (Gothenburg 2001)
Soo.. is there any other aproach? Well I´m a bit of a Greenpeace fan. Somethings they do are illegal but they get results by raising the conscience levels of the grey masses. Grassroots taking matters into their own hands can make a difference.
One that particulary comes into mind is the Power Trough Resistance defacement of CIA´s homepage in the end of -96.
The background was a hacker that contacted a company to tell them that they had several security holes in their system. They asked him to come and meet with them in person which he did (he had nothing to hide), after the meeting he has arrested and charged by Swedish security police. The trial could have fitted in the sci-fi section at any bookstore. That´s when some of sweden´s finest (PTR) defaced the CIA site (and a couple of others). The msg at the top of the page was "Stop lying Bo Skarinder", after the first bitching about computer security and mallicious hackers people started to wonder what they meant with that statement and started to read up on the subject. With that, the wankers (police, DOJ and other gov. officials) had to change their tactics. Otherwise we could have been looking at a similar situation that you Americans face right now.
I´m no Black Hat, but I´m not White Hat either. Actions like this could make the difference. Writing to your representative wont do any good if their voters aren´t ready to back them up. And they won´t do that unless they know what´s going on.

Is hacktivism the answer? I believe so, if not gimme a suggestion to what you could do? How do you raise the conscience of millions of people in a month or so?
And remember, you don´t have alot of time..

hey guys. first... the same topic is being discussed here http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=133967 , as to whether protest is a good idea. the desicion we are coming to is, yes it is. there is never a time when one should back down from what you believe. you may not win... but it's worth the fight. my basic opinion is, if you are giving in, then you are givine up. comprimise of beliefs is never the answer. those interested n protesting should go to http://antiterrorismact.cjb.net

I went the direction I did due to prior postings. The whole jist of my arguement is this: If there is no God...no absolutes...no punishment of the unjust and reward of the just. Then it is BETTER to be dead. Only the hope of an afterlife can fuel hope when confronted with suffering. Life or Prison? To be or not to be
thats the REAL question.

To be or not to be, that is the question,
Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them.

To die, to sleep --
No more, and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to; `tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream: ay there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil
Must give us pause; there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, and proud man's contumely,

The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin; who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,

But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of?

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action

If you look at "to be or not to be"

you can see 3 things instead of 2

1) to be
2) not to be
3) to be or not to bo


first: alive, second: dead, the third could be refering to a kind of state between dead and alive.

This is perhaps the reason why myths and stories about ghost and things like that are so succesfull.

Nobody *really* knows

And for the monkey: he * CAN * write it (in theory)

:)

Oh wow I think Lord_Darkside_X got a little jealous. Just to let all the new people know I posted this thread like 1 to 2 months ago. It's old and because of the fights in this thread it was moved down to the end of the list. Hoping never to return again. Anyway Lord_darkside or whatever your lame name is you do know that there is a forum search right? and that people don't like responding twice, especially when the topic has already been covered.

Ennis is getting a sence of humor I love it.

I believe you are referring to the buddist state of "mu" VictorKaum
yes= the light switch is turned on
no = the switch is turned off
mu= there is no switch
I fail to see the co-relation,however. Could the language barrier be an issue

Quote:

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I fail to see the co-relation,however. Could the language barrier be an issue

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Yes, the language is an issue, but there is more:

- the reply 'to be or not to be' has no co-relation with the monkey if you fail to see that relation.

- the monkey can write the shakespeare works, like I can win the lottery.

- I was not referring to the buddist state 'mu' but this 'mu' is indeed also an option (it could be the same as I mean or some 4th option)
my option was focussing on OR. The inspiration comes from Heidegger (Sein und Zeit) (in English: Being and Time) and Tolstoij (some story he has written about a man who sees his end coming, I don't remember the title right now)

Larryjs, it's nice debating with you. :)

FreeOn if you want to close this thread...say the word, you started it. Be forwarned however that I will start a another thread like it. This thread came up in another posting about how good things used to be on AO it was legendary according to Ennis.I took a look at and posted

And I had some remarks against the things Larrjys said and so the thing is going straight to the top

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VictorKaum
[B]



- the reply 'to be or not to be' has no co-relation with the monkey if you fail to see that relation.

I thought Shakespear wrote that in which case it is revalent in a pun-ish sort of way
:)