Controversy Builds Over Magic Lantern -

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December 1st, 2001, 05:37 PM
Remote_Access_

Controversy Builds Over Magic Lantern -

Greetings everyone. I've decided to post another follow up to the magic lantern. This article is from Http://www.hideaway.net
A reliable source of information. The story is as follows:

30/11/2001 Controversy Builds Over Magic Lantern -

Last week we reported on the FBI's new surveillance tool "Magic Lantern" - a trojan horse that logs a suspect's keystrokes and sends them to law enforcement authorities. Controversy has
http://www.silicon.com/public/door?6...R1=silicon.com

emerged over how Anti-Virus software will respond to the software. It doesn't do the FBI much good if the suspect's virus scanner blocks Magic Lantern. McAfee and Symantec have both reportedly
http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,48648,00.html made arrangements to keep their virus scanners from detecting it, while Sophos and other vendors have taken the stance that malware is malware and exceptions cannot be made. What's frightening is that hackers could obtain (or simulate) copies of Magic Lantern and modify them for their own use - if the most popular virus scanners don't detect them, this could be disastrous.
:D

Good Day,
Remote_Access_
December 1st, 2001, 09:51 PM
GrimMan

That's a good point, if mainstay security progs like Norton and McAffee let it through, there's trouble...because most school, business, and personal systems use those more mainstream types.
But hackers shouldn't need to steal a copy of the FBI version to cause trouble, since keyloggers are easy to find, and it can't be too difficult to put one in a trojan.
Has the FBI said anything about how they plan to keep this out of 'enemy hands', so to speak?
December 1st, 2001, 10:57 PM
[WebCarnage]

Re: Magic Lantern

Quote:

What's frightening is that hackers could obtain (or simulate) copies of Magic Lantern and modify them for their own use - if the most popular virus scanners don't detect them, this could be disastrous.

Yeah, that would be disasterous, but what I would like to know is. Will the FBI install a copy of Magic Lantern to every online "american" user? Because when I was watching Tech TV the other day and they said it was to find usernames and passwords to only malacious 'hackers'. But how will they know which 'hackers' to install the software to. I'm sure they have ways, it's just a thought.

An idea is that they could just place the trojan keylogger in the next update of :flip:AOL:flip: or something (which the majority of users in America use i'm guessing...thank God I don't). Because I get their CD's all the time, some unsuspecting user would just place it on their tray and plug-'n-play.
December 2nd, 2001, 02:51 AM
Focmaester

I am allmost certain that if Mcafee and Norton don't add Magic Lantern in their dat files that the cdc or other organizations will release programs to fight the virus.
December 2nd, 2001, 04:15 AM
Remote_Access_

Recdc or other organizations will release programs to fight the virus

Quote:

I am allmost certain that if Mcafee and Norton don't add Magic Lantern in their dat files that the cdc or other organizations will release programs to fight the virus.

Or CDC and other orginizations may release programs SIMILAR to the virus, and result in cha0s. :sly:

Remote_Access_
December 2nd, 2001, 04:55 AM
s0nIc

hmm the question is.. Does the FBI ever though of the possibility that the Magic Lantern can fall into the wrong hands? Im sure Magic Lantern would be one on the top of the list for the script kiddies coz finally they can have a script thats undetectable.. not to mention crackers...

Or maybe the FBI dont care.. need less to say the FBI isnt that trust worthy enuff coz they just have "govt conspiracy" written all over their faces..
December 2nd, 2001, 06:09 AM
GrimMan

Quote:

Or CDC and other orginizations may release programs SIMILAR to the virus

See, I'd think the same thing. I'm sure various security organizations, both mainstream and otherwise, will end up releasing fairly similair programs...not to mention countless hacker groups altering the actual lantern, or making new versions, and releasing it as well...turning the net into a veritable minefield until software appears to fight this crap.
-Grim
:borg:
December 2nd, 2001, 09:29 AM
darkes

Well, I've spoken on this before, but I'm not at all convinced that it would make any sense for McAfee/Symantec to allow that to happen. How long would you expect to keep that a secret? Surely you don't believe that something like that will not get detected. After all you are making the assumption that all suspects that you somehow manage to infect do not know anything about this sort of thing, which seems very naiive to me!
As a business/home user would you continue to use/recommend compromised software -I can't think of a better reason to recommend an AV company that did catch the virus :D

In a sense this is one of the strong features of the net - nobody, not even the US, can control what happens in the entire world.
There are many companies located outside the US, who I'm sure would be delighted to see this sort of thing happen :)
December 2nd, 2001, 04:39 PM
Focmaester

Re: Recdc or other organizations will release programs to fight the virus

Quote:

Originally posted by Remote_Access_

Or CDC and other orginizations may release programs SIMILAR to the virus, and result in cha0s. :sly:

Remote_Access_

Well I don't think so buddy, just because they released Backorifice doesn't mean they are bad. CDC works on several projects including peakabooty.
Peakabooty will make sure people in countries like China or where the people are pressured etc. are able to view anything off the net despite that most info is blocked for "pornographic reasons"
December 2nd, 2001, 07:27 PM
Remote_Access_

Well that may be YOUR opinion but who's to say if they will for sure or not? Have you visited http://www.cdc.com lately?

Remote_Access_
December 2nd, 2001, 10:27 PM
Focmaester

I know Trojan and virus experts personally who work with the CDC so why do you keep questioning it? And besides antivirus makers haven't decided yet and the CDC is just an example of an organization that could be interested into fighting this. Have you ever met any of these people? do you go to security conferences? or you just take meinel/jp or attritions word?
December 2nd, 2001, 10:33 PM
evilseed

CdC supports magic lantern.

http://www.cultdeadcow.com

read around.
December 2nd, 2001, 11:06 PM
Focmaester

Ok I rest my case.
But you gotta read this evilseed

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/arti...iclantern.html

There still is hope
December 3rd, 2001, 02:49 PM
darkes

Irritating

I see a got some more negative antipoints for my latest post without any reason being given.
Perhaps you thought my post was anti US because I live in Europe? Let me assure you that is not the case, as I have worked for US based software companies in the past, and have visited the US many times on business & pleasure.
The point I was trying to make was the commercial implications of going ahead with something like 'Magic Lantern'. At the moment I would be quite happy to recommend/use something like Mcafee/Symatec, but if it were to turn out that the software didn't work as advertised, I would recommend something else that did.