Privacy in a monitored world [Echelon]

I don´t know but I guess you´ve already talked a great deal about this subject. However, there seem to be people that are ignorant of this subject and it scares the willies out of me. Why I´ve chose Echelon is because it interests me and there is a bit of material and hard evidence out there for everyone to read. Since I find it hard to clearly express myself, please memo me or sum about questions or post a follow up.
So you wonder, what is it, does it affect me and why should I bother?
Well very shortly it´s a network for monitoring al communication.
And since you are highly likely to send information trough any of these relay points it affects you. Should you bother? Read 1984 by Welles.

*Yeah right! They don´t have the tech to do it.
Well if NSA was a company it would be right up there on the 50 biggest companies in the states. And then add the British, Canadian, Aussie and Kiwi intel. So they certainly have the money and personell.
And that´s just the official part, sweden for one has allegedly sent data from one of their spy signal stations and we are supposedly neutral. How many more countries want´s a piece of the cookie?
*Ok, but they wouldn´t do that, it has to be illegal.
In the name of hunting terrorists? Get real.
*Pft, well I use 128bit crypto. So I´m safe.
Well maybe you should have a chat with the company that wrote the program. Backdoors is a reality, and if they don´t have they key do you think they could cluster puters to break it? According to the swedish security police (SÄPO that is) NSA can break a PGP 128bit crypto in 0.005 seconds.
*Bah that is impossible!
Well there is talk about the NSA budget.. 10 billion US$ I don´t find that figure feasible but even if you half it you can still get a couple of cans.. and clustering them is no biggie. And that would be a yearly budget..
*Well maybe you got a point.. but so what, why should I care?
Well first of al, who controlls these people? I sure don´t and I don´t think that the american people has alot to say either. (You do know about CIA black ops right?)
*Anyways, they would never go after me.
Then I must ask why not? If not to fight real crime then just to justify their own existence, no enemy no money. Why be unemployed when you can create a new threat? (no commies anymore)
*HAHAHA, are you having an acidflashback or something?
Well go read for yourself then
*You are making a horse from a tail
As I mentioned the CIA ran (maybe still is) covert black ops which dealt in Cocain, ran guns to right wing extremists and even physically got involved in latin america with both equipment and personell. Where are those people now? And those behind them? Do you think that Oliver North was the mastermind behind CIA black op´s?

Once again, go to fas.org and read up on Echelon

Last year I was in a discussion group were Echelon was a frequent topic. One of the guys announced "Echelon-day", he had a little proggie that generated e-mails that would be picked up by the Echelon system. They contained all sorts of nasty messages (eg. "To Gadaffi, it's time to kill Bill Clinton etc.). He sent the prog around, and invited everyone to use it one one certain day - "Echelon-day".

The idea was to show the authorities that people disliked being monitored, but I don't think it helped much. Perhaps if enough people joined in, the Echelon system would break down. But I don't think so...

Movies like Enemy of the State, Wag the Dog; Hollywood magic? Not Hardly. The feds have had this technology for several years. HAARP, Echelon; these so called 'grey projects' have been ongoing for several years. Imagine the technology they haven't accidently leaked (or just had to come out and tell us about). Kinda conspiracy theorist, huh?:eek:

would you mind indulging me in what HAARP is? (ok, I can find it for myself but for the ignorant one)

Bugger big brother backwards
IT`S FRIDAY :drink:

www.haarp.alaska.edu/

I dunno but I don´t think that´s the HAARPA hillbilly75 is talking about.. or is it? It seems like a "harmless" educational site atleast.

I don't know if it is?? I guess he will have to tell us:)

Why just talk about the subject. We obviously need to do something about it. I know it seems like we would get nowhere fast but petitions and things of that sort have done major things in the past. Find a petition and join it. Go to the White House and start a riot. Nah... On second thought don't do anything at all. Somebody else will take care of it.:cool:

There has been attempts to crash echelon by sending large files containing different buzz words (using words like kill the president and such) but it hasn´t seem to work. It would take a massive amount of co-ordinated people sending a MASSIVE amount of files to oveload the system. Keep in mind that they have a yearly budget that exceeds a couple of small countries COMBINED.
What we can do now is INFORM the ignorant masses that there is a threat to their privace.
What I can´t believe is that there are computer interested people that are ignorant of Echelon. Imagine how many of the "grey" masses that don´t realise this.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hillbilly75
HAARP, Echelon; these so called 'grey projects' have been ongoing for several years. Imagine the technology they haven't accidently leaked (or just had to come out and tell us about). Kinda conspiracy theorist, huh?:eek:

---

Another conspiracy theorist! Good to see...


Have you noticed that www.parascope has been down for weeks? For those of you who don't know of parascope it WAS a site dedicated to uncovering FBI, DoD, CIA and general US cover ups.

And remeber-


"In Germany they came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up."


-Martin Niemoller

echelon, carnivore, they all sucks, they did nothing to stop the terrorists! The only thing their good for is keeping track of what private citizens are doing, the everyday folk that live live not knowing their being watched or think its fine.

OK ya'll I was in the Navy in the 80's and we could listen to anyone and tell where they were transmitting from, also if we were able to tell if it was a, fake or multi- trans from the same location, once you trans your ass belongs to us....The same goes for the internet.. This was the 80's think what they can do now :ubergun:

Jeeze now I here the black helecopters thank's :eek:

These things are pretty scarry,

Maybe I'am just naive when I'am thinking they only can listen, they don't have to?

What about the mess of NSA, FBI, CIA, ... against terror?
THE solution doesn't exist

I know I'm going to regret this but it's not just listening it's targeting OTH targeting was what we were doing plus lang. stuff.:cool:

Most of us know about Echelon etc. but before we know how to secure at least some privacy we need to know what exactly all of these networks are capable of. Echelon is undoubtebly the largest but here are some more:
Rusia - there are two large inteligence agency's but it is doutable they have the ability to operate outside the former soviet union
China - The chinese government have a ministry of security which has developed systems similar to carnivore
There are many other smaller networks, israel, france, the EU even has a draft plan.

So what we need to do is somehow gather information on all of these networks and find thier weeknesses. We allready know that they have access to massive resources, the NSA is americas largest employer of mathematicians, GCHQ (in the UK) INVENTED the electronic computer in WW2. So if anyone has ideas on how to get information maybe you could post them.

What we can do for now is try to educate and hang around for someone to defect/leak. What we basically have is late 80's info about the system. (except for the locations of (some of?) the main nodes.
My guess is that when one agency or another comes up with something smarter, information about Echelon will start to leak.
Unless someone is ready to hack into Sugar Crove or maybe Menwith Hill ;)