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I came across this story at HITB. It appears that a Naval Petty Officer has been issued the first National ID card. Makes for an interesting read.
What is the world coming too? Talk about Big Brother......
Here is a small cut and paste from the article...
And more than ever before, the cards will enable Defense Department officials to look into their databases and know the doorways he passes through, the computer he accesses, the doctor he sees, all of which is fine with Jimenez.
And they all seem to be so proud of this technology.
I wont even use easy pass. The only way ill have an id card is when they pry it into my cold dead fingers.
Sounds like the mark of the Beast.......
I won't get into quoting scripture though.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tedob1
And they all seem to be so proud of this technology.
The technology itself is truly amazing. But to use such technology to keep track of people is terrifying..
I'd LOVE to see them try to give me one of those cards. If they try, I have a message for them, and it's going right between their eyes. U.S. citizens are real people, not just another gear or pulley in some gigantic machine. People like privacy, but the government doesn't seem to be able to figure that out. The Constitution specifically prohibits the government getting into our personal lives without PROBABLE CAUSE that we have committed a crime. It seems like after the bombing, the government just can't quit wiping it's ass with the Constitution. When does it stop? Why do people allow this to happen? Why have we not drawn the line yet? As this bullshit keeps progressing, the thought of moving to Holland or Switzerland becomes more tempting.
These tactics are very similar to the ones used by Hitler just before the Holocaust. First, there was government censorship. We have censorship. Then, all Jews were required to wear a big armband with the Star of David and the word "Jude" in big bold letters. We have national ID cards on the way, which is very similar to the armband method, only more sophisticated. Soon afterward, they were all moved to the ghettos, and rounded up for extermination.
The only big difference between our tactics and Hitler's is that Hitler used Jews as his scapegoat. We're using the drug users and petty criminals. Why is smoking pot so evil? If anybody gives me any of those stupid D.A.R.E. propaganda answers, I'm gonna rip my hair out. Somebody stupid enough to believe all that bullshit not only deserves, but NEEDS the government tracking their every move. After all, you don't want them drowning themselves next time it rains. These are the kinds of people that get pissed because guns don't have big warning labels on them saying:
WARNING!
Blowing your ****ing brains out is hazardous to your health. If you blow your ****ing brains out, consult your physician immediately.
larryjs puts on a flame retardent suit and steps up ans sez:
Would a national ID card be that bad? We could keep track of non-citizens, criminals and mental cases. With some privacy protection measures it could be a good thing.
Quote:
Originally posted by larryjs
Would a national ID card be that bad? We could keep track of non-citizens, criminals and mental cases.
There's always one! Oh well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Thats the beauty of living in a "free" country.
I've cut and pasted a few reasons why the ID card is a BAD idea...
Oracle's Larry Ellison and Harvard's Allen Dershowitz have been all over the media recently pitching a National ID Card. One poll indicates 70% public support for the notion. Most critics of a National Identity Card mention Hitler, police stops, and personal privacy to argue against the proposal. Those are good reasons to oppose a National ID Card, but they miss the idea's worst features.
Proponents of a National ID Card have a responsibility to tell us exactly what the system will do to day-to-day life in America. They are unlikely to do so because most thoughtful Americans would be alarmed at the prospect.
A National ID card is *not* really about identity. It is about authorization.
A modern National ID System will:
* Require Americans to obtain federal government authorization to travel, work, rent or buy housing, obtain medical care, use financial services, and make many purchases.
* This federal authorization could be denied for many reasons including database errors, a suspicious transaction profile, being a deadbeat parent, failure to pay taxes or fines, and any other social control measures Congress wishes to hang on the system.
I agree, it's mainly a method of control that's being pushed forward under the guise of antiterrorism. (Next from Congress: Legislating Antiterrorist Approved Milk. Does the country good.)
Furthermore, a single system, no matter how advanced, is far more prone to exploitation and breakdown than a great many different and partially redundant systems. Even as identify theft becomes more rampant, they're going about it the wrong way. One of the main things with identify theft is your Social Security Number. One item. Easy to fake or get. Used for lots of things. JEEZ! It's this very 'one-click-answer' kinda solution which is CAUSING these problems, dumbing down ID systems (on the user side) is not the answer.
People you are all missing the point. The card that this article is referring to is called the DOD CAC (Common Access Card). And this is a great idea, especially for an organization as large as the DOD. This has been developed in the DOD PKI infrastructure and is almost one hundred % secure. By the way, this has been in the works for years....
This is how is works:
A Navy employee (contractors too) will go to a terminal and enter all of their confidential information into a DEERS database. This information is processed and the Navy personal will then be notified that their card is ready at a Navy processing office. The personal must show some forms of ID and then they will receive the card. This Smart Card will contain personal Bio info, encrypting and digitally signing certs for PKI enabled applications.
Now this technology is not meant to watch you. This technology provides these basic features, Access to building (magnetic swipe), Computer Access (login capabilities), Encryption of files and computers (PKI Certs), and so on.....
The advantage of Security is that not just anyone can access a computer with a password or a building with a key. They will need one of these cards and their private key associated with the card.
If anyone area of our society needs such a high security standard, it is the DOD.
Note: I know all about this because I represent an encryption utility that is complicate with these Smart Cards.....
This article is no way related to a National ID card program. Personally I think and know it will never fly. I have had multiple conversations with Smart Card vendors and they agree that this is just a bunch of smoke...
Quote:
Originally posted by Chi32
Note: I know all about this
Wow! That's a big call to make!
True, the above mentioned card is a DoD Common access card.
But there are plans to use a similar card on civillians. You can find an article on it (and other privacy related matters) here
Yes, I am a conspiracy theorist, hear me roar!:D Seriously though, the idea of a national id card is something that shouldn't even be played with....
I would hate the idea of this falling into the wrong hands. I mean what if a telemarketer gets a hold of it, you could be harrssed everyday for the rest of you life. I still like the idea of being able to dissapear in this country and start off fresh.
Once again people are getting herded into sheep
hey i have one of dose ID's....
im serious.. i do.. i think dey're cool though..
Quote:
Originally posted by s0nIc
hey i have one of dose ID's....
I don't understand what you're saying. Could you be a little more specific please? You have a National ID card? I too am an Australian citizen and haven't been issued a National ID..
Perhaps you're talking about a "Proof of age" card? The card that allows it's holder to drink large amounts of sweet, sweet beer...
Quote:
Originally posted by Conf1rm3d_K1ll
A National ID card is *not* really about identity. It is about authorization.
A modern National ID System will:
* Require Americans to obtain federal government authorization to travel, work, rent or buy housing, obtain medical care, use financial services, and make many purchases.
* This federal authorization could be denied for many reasons including database errors, a suspicious transaction profile, being a deadbeat parent, failure to pay taxes or fines, and any other social control measures Congress wishes to hang on the system.
I see here that you are making something out of the card that I,myself would oppose! Thats the problem with these kind of reactions..they just show a paranioa that extrapolates everything to the worst extreme. Once again let me state clearly what I said about the National ID card. I think that if its ONE purpose is to idenify then it can be a good thing. If some little tyrant comes along and abuses it ...well *hehe* he CAN be dealt with. I want to idenify all the little third world MAGGOTS that are parisites to this great nation.
rememeber grasshopper:
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!
National ID Card ----- Anology ----- Magic Lantern
Both for the same purpose (well...not really...but they both observe a certain member of society, wheather it be a computer criminal or a Navy Officer. Yet I'm not so certain the endings of these two fabrications will be the same. You all remember a few posts back when all were told that the Magic Lantern project had been aborted (or at least thats what the Pigs want us to think). Yet this National ID Card sounds pretty sweet. It's just like having a drivers licence. You get certain privledges that you couldn't before...yet with this priveledge comes disaster...in this case "mock-up licences"...imagine the same thing happening to the DoD ID Cards...some malacious tech wiz could just "ID" his way in...which means he doesn't have to worry about finger prints...eye retenal scans...or skin evaluation of any sort...just slip-'n-slide with his card all the way to where he wants go to...
Sorry about that Conf1rm3d_K1ll,
I am familiar with the environment and that is all. The information on the cards and DOD PKI infrastructure is all publicly aviailable.
Here is a Link for Starters:
DOD PKI
No need for any of this "sorry" stuff. :D I had a rough idea of what you meant and was just having a bit of a laugh. Sarcasm, eh? The lowest form of humour, or so I'm told....
:dunce:
Quote:
I don't understand what you're saying. Could you be a little more specific please? You have a National ID card? I too am an Australian citizen and haven't been issued a National ID..
i have dual citizenship.. ;)
and 8 passports..
so im basically as versatile as ur local british secret agent :)
*007 Music* Dun, dun...dun, dun, dun, dun....dun, dun, dun, dun,....Quote:
Origionally posted by: s0nIc
i have dual citizenship..
and 8 passports..
so im basically as versatile as ur local british secret agent. :)
I'm guessing you like it shaken...and not stirred?
Here is a thought that popped into my head. So let's say that this National ID card is strictly for CAC. Sure it seems like a great idea. Then only someone that is supposed to have access to something will be granted access.
Think about it. We can have all entrances to our houses controlled by these cards. And we can log onto our computers using these cards. Possibly encrypt our personal files with our unique national id. It would guarantee that only the proper people could have access to certain things. Sounds like an excellent idea for security, and privacy.
Oh wait a minute. The government is issuing these cards. The same people that want back doors in PGP, and the same people that created carnivore, echelon, and magic lantern.
Now WE ALL KNOW that anything of ours that our National ID card is supposed to protect, the government will have 100% access to. For example, if you will be able to use your national ID card to log on to your computer. You know the government will have some kind of skeleton key version of this national ID card where they can log on to ANYONES computer.
We all know the government wouldn't want us having total privacy or exclusive access to something. Anything that this card is supposed to benefit us with, will benefit the government 100 times more. There is no doubt that they will have a skeleton key version of this national id card, and I for one, don't want to leave my door open to the government. They have already abused everything else that is open to them.
Or maybe i'm just paranoid. Comments?
Quote:
Originally posted by jared_c
Oh wait a minute. The government is issuing these cards. The same people that want back doors in PGP, and the same people that created carnivore, echelon, and green lantern.
Or maybe i'm just paranoid. Comments?
When I read the first two paragraphs of your post I was getting ready to flame! :D Sarcasm got me again!
There's no such thing as "just being paranoid", jared. ONLY THE PARANOID SURVIVE!
yea confirmed_kill I agree:
Just because I'm paraniod doesn't mean they are not after me!
:shocked:
I for one do not see that a National ID card is such a bad thing. After all you need an ID card to do just about anything, and we all (at least all of use that are over 16 or so) have one. I have 4 at the moment, all for different things. It seems to me that this is all a smoke screen - A crass ploy by the Oracle CEO to get some new business and also pointless Chicken Little-ism by others!
Just my own 2 cents...
:confused: Since when has an ID card or a gun license totally stopped criminals? We wll never know! All we do know is that honest people all ways get stopped by the same things that are supposed to protect. Sports men and women in the UK have been stopped from shooting target pistols, but when was the last time the IRA or another terrorist organization got licenses for there C4 and grenade launchers? OK forms of ID may reduce the amount of criminals, Nothing is 100% secure. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat!!
Ok now.....why did you have to dig up this dead dog of a thread?
:airoff:
In many ways I think that thirdeg has hit the nail on the head. National ID cards will only catch the inexperienced criminal - the more experienced ones will actually exploit the system to their own ends. And terrorists will either ignore it, or use convincing fakes if they need to.
Just as a minor point to jared_c, as far as I know there is no back door to PGP (regarding the maths behind it - I do have a maths degree), which is why the UK & US governments want to get everyone to change to a a system where everyone has to register their keys with them.
Yes PGP maybe 100% secure when it comes to being able to crack it, but as I said in my last post there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. US and UK Governments are being given laws to fight what they call terrorism, I admit im not up to speed on bills passed in the US recently, but in the UK they are saying hacking is terrorism, they are also trying to pass new laws to inprison suspect terrorist without a trial, they have also passed laws giving police more powers to detain computer equipment if the person is 'belived' to be a terrorist. So back to the top of the post-Yes it maybe 100% secure but what happens when they come round to your house and take your computer with the keychains that only take a couple of weeks to crack, unless of course you have a 5000 character keyphrase (I have never met someone this paranoid, but im sure there out there!!!). All you people should know if you are trying to get into something always go for the weakest link, in this case the person behind the computer!
Anyone here read 1984? This is sounding just a bit familiar...... :hippy:
Wow, I just noticed that in my previous post I put "Green Lantern", instead of "Magic Lantern". Seems like my childhood comic book heroes are coming back to haunt me. Damn them! I think I'll go back and edit that before someone burns me bad. :D
To darkes, you are right. As far as the public knows there is no back door in PGP. I think Phil Zimmerman did a good job fighting the government about that. The government wanted to add a back door to PGP, but it wasn't their software to add it to. That is why there is no doubt in my mind that if a national ID card was used to access things, the government would have the master skeleton key to access EVERYTHING.
When I first learned about the NAZIs and the
holocaust, I always wondered how, in places
like Poland or the Netherlands, how in the hell did
they know who was jewish and who was not?
They look just like everyone else.
I believe those countries already had
extensive paperwork on the population
including name, address, occupation,and
religion. No one ever thought the information
would be used for evil.:cool:
Couldn't agree more with rcgreen. That is the problem with this type of legislation - I don't believe that the current US or UK governments would seriously abuse this type of legislation. But it sets a very dangerous precedent in allowing very wide ranging powers for the state.
In reply to thirdeg:
==============================================
All you people should know if you are trying to get into something always go for the weakest link, in this case the person behind the computer!
==============================================
True, but often the computer is the weakest link of all. If you are really paranoid, you can encrypt all data held on your HDD, using software or hardware (but hardware methods are more secure).
To give a classic example from several years ago, during the Falklands war an MoD (the UK's DoD) official left a laptop in the back of a taxi in London, which was stolen. Unfortunately this apparently contained the current plans for the war.
Due to the publicity, this was handed into the police (rather hot property I would think!)