Linux vs. Microsoft

Ok, I am sorry but I have to do this. But I have seen a really annoying trend and myth that is flowing around this place. Running Unix does not make you special, nether does running a Microsoft OS. It is what you DO with the systems that make you who you are. I am growing ever so sick and tired of hearing people whine about how shitty Microsoft is and how Unix is sooo much better. How many of you are proficient in all the versions of the Microsoft and Unix operating systems to actually make that decision? Why do we have to jump on a bandwagon and deprive ourselves of knowledge and experience to make our own choices on the systems we run. Everything has its place in this industry. Microsoft is a leader in individual systems because not everybody is interested in an open sourced OS. Yeah, Linux is free but can be just as simple as any Microsoft OS out there if you keep it basic (which most people do) Unix does have its place along side Microsoft and is gaining popularity in the business industry, but still has a ways to go. I swear, all of you running RedHat 7.1 with no concept of programming, networking, or any other form of technology really piss me off. I mean, smart ass remarks and copy/past out of articles does not make you useful or interesting. When I hear all the hax0rs out there talking about running scripts but then turn around and ask how to configure a liloconf file, or dns, smtp, or anything else to be considered help desk. Please! For the love of all that is holy.....give it a break.

Yes, Windows is hated by hackers and so on. But still I don't think Linux can or ever will replace the desktop. Look at the users who just want to chat/e-mail etc. you can't give them a UNIX system. They won't know how to work with it. Even AOL is a good option. Some people just don't want to know what their OS is made of etc. I can understand that if you are in the IT field that you would choose a Linux flavor but it still a work in progress. Most IT people use SCO or Solaris, and still do not trust Linux. Buit for the people who can't afford a unix system, on their laptop or desktop Linux is an alternative. Look at OpenBSD, I have a box running it as a firewall on my home network. But I wouldn't use it as a main system to run multimedia applications. The Mac is allso an option.

Not to be too down on the mass populous that happen to own computers, but considering how flat out ignorant, dumb, or just apathetic most of the users are, they're the reason why MS is so popular. Same with AOL. It takes nothing to run and those people are happy with that. Nothing's wrong with that theory but unfortunately it's now a big item based on it's successful selling to dummies. And for those who think I'm ragging on them or anyone else they know, I get a bit tired when everyone's always wanting to do something with their computer but never actually learns. It's always "too hard" or whatever. Give me a break...oh, and then they beg and plead to have their computer fixed for free when they invariably do something stupid like rename Windows or delete explorer.exe or something else, all because "they knew what they were doing.". Go figure.

*has his "No, I won't fix your computer" t-shirt coming from thinkgeek.com!*

My friend has that shirt. It's really neat, but doesn't gain him much respect in school, as you can imagine. I'm really looking into one of those BSD hats. They're really cool looking.

I know what you mean about the whole user stupidity thing. I have friends who can't wait to get their grubby little hands on Windows XP, and some who already have. These are the same people who call ME over to install it for them at the drop of a hat, and the same people who can't figure out why their word processor won't recognize a file after they change the extension to .myfile. Not once do these people think, "Gee. Maybe what I have is perfectly adequate." or "What does my computer-knowledgeable friend think about this software?". And they CERTAINLY never stop to think, "Is my computer-knowledgeable friend going to be willing to give up his entire day at the drop of a hat to help me after I royally screw this up beyond recovery?" They just assume that I would be glad to drop everything to dig them out. After all, I have no life other than to try (in vain) to cure stupidity. I don't mind helping people. I don't even mind helping them for hours at a time, over and over. I DO mind when they call me over to recover their system from a horribly botched XP install while they go out to eat. I love helping people who want to learn, but I'm tired of being Mr. Fix-It for everybody who has a bug up their butt to get the latest Microsoft product.

Every one of these people think they're computer geeks because they have Windows XP Home Edition, and AOL 7.0. It really makes me mad. They go on bragging about how great their computer is and how great they are on it, and all they know is AOL and Word, and even that is extremely limited. Not one of these people would last 5 minutes on Linux or BSD, even if you gave them all the reference and other resources they could possibly need. They take one look at the screen, one look at the book, and whine that it's hard. The next day, they're back to bragging about how great they are on a computer. I say it's time to revolt. All you people out there who have to play fix-it for the terminally dumb, PUT DOWN THOSE SCREWDRIVERS! PUT DOWN THOSE DRIVER DISKS! If they can't fix their own problems, tough. They won't be so gung-ho to screw up their computers every time Microsoft releases a new software package. They'll have to fix their OWN problems! Think of it, no more stupid people. No more "Where's the 'any' key?" questons. People will be COMPETENT! IT'S A REVOLUTION!!!


That having been said, I feel much better now.

Unix does have its place along side Microsoft and is gaining popularity in the business industry, but still has a ways to go.


unix IS the business sector.

Hmmm, before I let my buzz where off from today's reality....I think I'll reply to some posts. Something we all must remember is that we are doomed to be the tech whore of the rest of the world. We are the same as Mechanics and Doctors. All regular people assume we know all and can fix anything with a strip of tape and an imagination (ironically enough, we usually do). This does not change regardless of users that are business or private weither they be unix or Microsoft. I find myself traveling around the United States and abroad dealing with so called professionals that always seem to fiddle themselves into a thousand dollar a day fix (and still play it off as something wrong with the system....hmm SQL database or IIS.....damn bugs right?) But one thing that I have learned (most of the time the hard way) is that these seemlessly annoying questions are what keeps us on our toes....they are what keeps our knowledge base filled with loads of details and logical ideas. We answer what we can and learn what we cannot. I have learned many a great tricks that I didn't know by listening to the fiddler or even a newbie with a very good imagination. I guess that is why I am here at AntiOnline....although a lot of the times it may seem hopeless, if you come in with the idea that you don't know everything and are willing to learn (as well as teach) you find yourself learning something new everyday. Well.....I still have to reply to a telecom post.....keep it real and you'll see me around....

Cordially,

Sp1d3r

Quote:

---

Running Unix does not make you special, nether does running a Microsoft OS. It is what you DO with the systems that make you who you are.

---

aint that the truth.....but i still hate microsoft

stflook, thank you for making me laugh and laugh...I needed that! The unfortunate side to this is the fact that most people now are already 'whipped' into being MS-led and aren't going to break away to try to learn new things about the computer industry, all of which WILL improve their ability on a computer. Every person who is actually good with computers has, at one point in time or another, totally fscked a system up beyond all repair and had to rebuild/reinstall. That's a fact. I will laugh in anyone's face if they even TRY to tell me they haven't. I also will laugh in anyone's face who tries to tell me they know everything about (subject here). Why? Because they don't...having been in the professional arena for 6 years now, I've seen countless people (generally older than me by about 7 years or more) "guard" their knowledge because they think that if they let someone know how to fix their computer at work just so they can get their job done a bit easier without help, then they'd be out of a job. Talk about the wrong way for self-preservation... And then they wonder why nobody talks to them. I will be *GLAD* to tell you everything you wanted to know about a fix, or how something works, or whatever, as long as I have the ability to answer and never will I come up with some bullshite answer instead of saying "I don't know". Unix administration is a lesson in humility every day and I learned really quick to know when to just admit that I didn't know. A lot of jobs out there now don't care if you "don't" know something...they care if you know where to look for the answers. Man pages, documents, printed manuals, online help, fellow workers, the list goes on... Educating people so they can do their job easier does 2 things, generally:

1: they know they can come to you for a straight-up answer and know they won't be fed a line about how complex it is and how only you can do it... This breeds a sense of trust and sure as hell gets you a lot more people to talk with.

2: appreciation, which leads to them helping you when you need it. Anyone who thinks they don't need help...well...everyone gets knocked down, no matter what, so just suck it up cuz yours is coming. Now, not all are appreciative or even try to learn. Some just blindly expect you to fix their **** every time, even if you've told them to write it down. I'll do that three times and after that, I'll tell them to pull out their notes that they said they took, otherwise find someone else and stop wasting my time. Sure they may not like it, but I won't be wasting time for idiots who just expect things to be done for them.


Moral of the story: Sp1d3r W0lf, I'll be glad to help you out if you need help. A lot of us on here will, although some use speech that's barely readable and/or filled with profane language, but overall, there's a plethora of knowledge that we can and will impart on others. You'll learn who to ignore and who to listen to.
But for the record, I can't stand MS, never have liked them, and never will stand up for anything on their product line. If I got a buck for every Windows error I've ever encountered that *I* couldn't fix because it was bad code, etc...I could pay rent for a year I bet. That's just sorry work and I'd be miserable if I were a programmer for MS that had code in there...*nix is MUCH better. Then again, unix has been around since the 60's, hehe...

Vorlin,

Help me out eh'? Great.....I could use the moral support :) But the ability to help somebody should not be paired up with the ego that most people seem to have attached. Trust me, I can understand the big words ( I have been bullshiting in this industry for awhile). I am merely growing tired of the stereotypical kid that wants to sound tough. Mabye just me...I dunno. As far as being able to speak with vulger and complexity...somebody once told me that the ability to teach somebody something is pretty much the ability to teach yourself. In short....if you try to confuse others....it is probably because you are just as foggy. And yes, closed source does have certain disadvantages.....but even if it was open source it would require the ability to know how to modify the system code (more than just a few tweaks, the registry can do that in Windoze). Which very few people actually do. Unix and Microsoft will allways have advantages and disadvantages in certain arenas (it's the reason why most professionals will use any depending on the situation). As far as being a technical support rep? I dunno, haven't done that job since I was a kiddo myself. But a good tech is somebody that enjoys helping somebody because it sharpens his own skill and not because he/she is wanting people to kiss their ass or heighten the ego. Well, I have some other stuff I am wanting to post before I actually do work today.....have a good one and thanks for the lending hands.

Cordially,

Sp1d3r

The draw to Microsoft is the easy and usability of their systems...

Hackers, techies, and crackers enjoy Linux because of its free and is very powerful and configurable. (And also because Windows 95 thru ME kept crashing.)

I personally enjoy Windows XP because it is stable AND easy to use.

Well, there's my thoughts on the matter.

(BTW, I use Linux and Windows, so I have used both.) :)

A classic case of:

Quote:

---

Each to their own.

---

It all started years ago when a home computer
had no OS but a BASIC interpreter.
You had to know a programming language
to use it at all.
My first kid was born in '79 and the conversation
among new parents was "will your kids grow up
to be 'computer literate' or will they be 'left behind?"
"Computer literate" meaning knowing how to
write your own programs.
Then Steve Jobs said "hogwash, I can make computers
that ANYONE can use!"
Today, most users would rebel if you suggested
that they would benefit from learning a command-line
interface, even just to supplement their GUI.
My son, now 22, considers himself a "power user",
but wouldn't dare trying to hack the registry.
His answer to everything is "format and reinstall".
Me, I just absolutely fell in love with DOS.
Then I discovered LINUX.
It's like DOS, only better.
Like DOS on steroids.
I use windows (don't we all?),but it frustrates me.
You need to become...all together now
COMPUTER LITERATE!:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Vorlin

*has his "No, I won't fix your computer" t-shirt coming from thinkgeek.com!*

---

lol I have that shirt too, but I still fix my friends computers, damn should charge them.
Let's put it this way, I think the Mac is a better alternative to windows. Expensive, but better.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Focmaester


lol I have that shirt too, but I still fix my friends computers, damn should charge them.
Let's put it this way, I think the Mac is a better alternative to windows. Expensive, but better.

---

But you can't dual boot with it, and you have to buy a totally new set of hardware.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Terr


But you can't dual boot with it, and you have to buy a totally new set of hardware.

---

Yea...as well as write your own software..who codes for apple nowdays?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antihaxor
Yea...as well as write your own software..who codes for apple nowdays?

---

What a bunch of crap, there is a lot of software available for the Mac. And yes there are still ppl. who code for the Mac. Don't worry about that.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Focmaester


What a bunch of crap, there is a lot of software available for the Mac. And yes there are still ppl. who code for the Mac. Don't worry about that.

---

just jokin Foc...don't get all riled now...hehe

I keep hearing the same crap about linux never being big on the home desktop, but take a look at linux. As recently as a few years ago it was near impossible to install without being a super computer geek. Now the developers are working harder every year to bridge the gap and make people want linux on the home desktop. This combined with projects like Lindows, wine, winlinux, and it is obvious that in a few years there will be no reason why people wont be able to use linux. It will become more user friendly over time and the differences between it and XP will diminish. Of course is this what we really want? Do you want your computer dummie mother to come up to you and say that linux is just as good as Microsoft? I certainly dont. I feel better being part of the minority.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sp1d3r W0lf
Ok, I am sorry but I have to do this. But I have seen a really annoying trend and myth that is flowing around this place. Running Unix does not make you special, nether does running a Microsoft OS. It is what you DO with the systems that make you who you are. I am growing ever so sick and tired of hearing people whine about how shitty Microsoft is and how Unix is sooo much better. How many of you are proficient in all the versions of the Microsoft and Unix operating systems to actually make that decision?

---

I've used Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD, and I grew up on Windows -- from DOS through to Win2k (haven't used XP yet) and every version of Windows in between.

Who's deciding who is proficient? What do you define as proficient? I might fit the bill (pardon the pun)...

Quote:

---

Why do we have to jump on a bandwagon and deprive ourselves of knowledge and experience to make our own choices on the systems we run.

---

Perhaps you're directing this post to only the bandwagon jumpers, but to be honest, having not run windows for anything other than games (and certainly not as a server OS) at home for more than two years, I don't feel deprived. I use Win2k, NT, and 98 extensively at work, and I deal with it every day. Coming home to my RH7.1 box feels more like relief, not like I'm depriving myself.

If you're directing this to new users, sure, I agree. I would encourage people to use it as extensively as they need, and if they use it to the same extent I have, or in the same way I have, chances are good they'll use Linux for the reasons I do.

Quote:

---

Everything has its place in this industry. Microsoft is a leader in individual systems because not everybody is interested in an open sourced OS.

---

Go read up on some history please, and then come back here and give us some actual information. Following that train of thought, how come we aren't all running Macs?

Quote:

---

Yeah, Linux is free but can be just as simple as any Microsoft OS out there if you keep it basic (which most people do) Unix does have its place along side Microsoft and is gaining popularity in the business industry, but still has a ways to go.

---

I don't understand your point here. Could you explain it further? What you're saying seems to be along the lines of "Your power windows won't work, which is why your tires are bald."

Quote:

---

I swear, all of you running RedHat 7.1 with no concept of programming, networking, or any other form of technology really piss me off. I mean, smart ass remarks and copy/past out of articles does not make you useful or interesting.

---

Umm, I don't know if you've noticed, but you take two of the more advanced computer topics, and then add 'or any other form of technology' to the end of the sentence. That kind of sweeping generalization is rather counterproductive when you're trying to be very specific, don't you think?

I'm not intending to offend, but do you think that ranting and namecalling make you interesting?

I agree with what stflook said. This world has become to reliant on the supposed "power" of the "customizable" OS of Windows (insert version name here). I am sick of people saying how "cool" and "super-fast" AOL is... when I was doomed to use it before my phone line was revoked, I experienced nothing but newbie bullshit and horrible bandwidth... a 9600 baud modem got better speeds than I did on 56K! My stepfather LOVED AOL so the only reason I am not still a condemned AOL user is because that same stepfather racked up on the phone bill almost an hour long of international long distance rates to... Madagascar? FOR WHAT? PHONE SEX! It is user like him that make me want to raise a family on nothing but Non-Microsoft operating systems (Linux, FreeBsD, Mac OS, etc.)

I have said what I felt was necessary...
(Chicks dig Unix... well, they should!)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Vorlin
But for the record, I can't stand MS, never have liked them, and never will stand up for anything on their product line. If I got a buck for every Windows error I've ever encountered that *I* couldn't fix because it was bad code, etc...I could pay rent for a year I bet. That's just sorry work and I'd be miserable if I were a programmer for MS that had code in there...*nix is MUCH better. Then again, unix has been around since the 60's, hehe...

---

I hear you, man. I was raised on Windows all the way back to 3.1, which was actually stable. When 95 and 98 came out, I didn't know any better than to trust them, and didn't even know Linux existed. Then came Windows ME. I ran it for about a month before it finally died completely. Until then, it was crashing about 3 times an HOUR. I hated it. NOTHING worked on it. Still, I knew nothing of the alternative operating systems, and switched to Windows 2000. Even that was crashing on an average of once a day. About 6 months ago, I finally jumped into the Linux world with Red Hat 7 on a junker box. I loved it. I loved it so much, that machine is sitting as a web server now. I just switched to SuSE 7.3 on my main box yesterday, and despite compatibility issues, I'm much happier on it than I have ever been on any of the recent Windows releases.

Quote:

---

I swear, all of you running RedHat 7.1 with no concept of programming, networking, or any other form of technology really piss me off. I mean, smart ass remarks and copy/past out of articles does not make you useful or interesting.

---

Hmmm, I think people use RH more than others because A: RH is commercially available more than others, B: RH has been around a long time compared to other releases, C: it's a much more supported platform for businesses (check out their network support), and other points I could list but I think the point's been made. Using RH doesn't mean we have "no concept of programming, networking, or any other form of technology". Sorry you feel left out but I think a lot of people in here, myself included, have done WAY more with computers than just standard "pc tech junkies". And as a personal response to said quote, even though I don't have to defend against anything (go read other posts I've read...you won't find much cut/paste anything in there, and even so, that's not bad as long as you reference the source), I don't really like being added to a group of people who undoubtedly run RH and know nothing. What about Windows skR1pT k1dd13z? Do *they* know more? Hell no, they point and f'ing click...not to mention, whether they compile a .c exploit because they read the README or they download a .exe and run it, they have no f'ing clue how it works, how to improve it, how to *FIX* the system they're hammering on by understanding how the exploit brings it down, etc etc... Your comment is vastly misdirected, and while a few on here are full of shite, most aren't and I don't find it wise to piss off those that can be of most use.

Hmmm, I have decided to jump back to this post....not to flame back but to clear things up. If you go to the start of this post and read the replies it becomes obvious that what I was complaining about is absolutely correct. I can post information regarding specific details on protocols or other subjects that are security related but nobody seems to care. I am not a newbie to the field and I sure as hell don't need to explain my feelings towards those that are. Has it not occured to most of you that a post with educational value will show very little views while a flame will show well over 300? This is because the majority of elite here are simply looking for a step by step guide or an ego boost. They can care less about learning or actually having to think. As far as script kiddies go....we all know the trends. Mostly, kids will jump to Linux because everybody says it's cool....from there they are loading nmap and on their way to bugging the rest of us on how to hack the pentagon. If we wish to review history with the now.....let us take a look. Unix has been around forever......problem is that there are so many distributions and so little support that it does not favor a large company. Why do I know this? Because I work with large companies. I understand people's loyalty to Unix based systems because of the minority and wishing to be seperated from the normal user. But there are better ways then to just say you are running something other than windows on your box. Or that windows sucks or something immature along those lines. I think from now on I'll just stick with the tutorials and info guides so I can rid myself from the clowns that just sit on the bbls and wait for a flame. Thanks for the optimistic view chsh....catch me on IRC sometime and I'll answer your questions.

Cordially,

Sp1d3r

In my opinion it is simply a question of being dependent on M$ and their programmers or not. There will always be people that do not understand what is going on inside their boxes and most of them do not care. That is why there are so many computer supporter companies out there that earn a lot of money by helping all those clueless users (or also friends that wear nasty t-shirts and help their friends although the text on the shirt promises a different thing...and believe me: I am one of those free supporters as well). But if you are curious by nature and do not like the situation that one company rules the world and you do not just want to stick with what they deliver and wait for a patch half a year etc. then you probably decide to switch to an open source environment.

/me Jumps on this here bandwagon

UberC0der's Opinion ####

Ok, I can see someone arguing that a new Linux user that isn't really sure how to even mount their CDROM yet is a little `bandwagon'ish' for making such an outrageous claim that Linux is better than Windows.

Then again.... Do you have to use something for 1,2, or 3 years to know that you like it and kinda think it `rocks'?

Perhaps,..These bandwogoneers know something. Maybe they know for themselves, in their own set of values, and thirst for knowledge that Linux and other free Open Source Unix's have more to offer. More to offer could be any reason that person sees it as.

UberC0der's Clarification on *his* feelings about Unix ####

I am guilty of being too generic in my speech when talking about Unix sometimes. There are several Unix's that I do not care for. All of these are proprietary and the hardware they run on is damned expensive (good, but expensive). If you think Windows is expensive, check out some of the proprietray Unix's and the workstatiosn they run on. It may surprise you to know that it is not all that uncommon to find Unix workstations that cost upwards of $20,000 US dollars, some cost more than that. These are workstations, not even servers.

The only Unix's I support are Linux, Free/Open/NetBSD, and to a certain extent Solaris. Why? Lot's of reasons, but a very good one is that FreeBSD in particular is consistently at the top of all servers on the net with really high uptimes and service reliability.

UberC0der's Unix concise Unix history crash course ####

Unix is not becomming a presence on the internet, it *is* the internet. Every major protocol used on the internet was developed on Unix. Most if not nearly all of these were developed on BSD Unix. i won't bore you with a timeline, but smtp and tcp are from the mid 1970's for example.

Love it or hate it, if you use the internet, you interact not only with Unix almost constantly, but no matter what OS you use, much if not all of your networking infastructure on that OS was developed in Unix.

UberC0der's `Linux will never be a desktop OS' rebuttle ####

Keep in mind that Linux can be anything the developers want it to be. It is not cast in some defined and unbreakable shape.

There are two mainstream schools of thought in Linux where traditional computers are concerned. One is the `alpha-geek' philosophy that can be seen in Distributions like Slackware. The other is making leaps and bounds at `User-Friendly' orientated Linux. (Suse, and Mandrake are good examples of this). As the popularity of Linux builds, so are driver support, commercial software and other things for Linux.

Simply put,... you may never use Linux as your primary Desktop OS, but do not be surprised if your children do.

###################################

Disclaimer: UberC0der has been known to rant and talk about himself in the third person, these bizarre and disturbing personality traits should be ignored as bet as possible.

Thinking of what goes on in the mind of UberC0der really scares me! :) Great reply though. Regardless, on thing I would like to mention is that although Unix systems due tend to be the choice for web hosting (as opposed to IIS on M$) they are normally setup as being gateways or cheap alternatives to firewalls or low end routers. The protocols you are thinking of due not comprise of the internet. They are associated with things users do on the internet but to associate Unix as being the founder of protocols for the net is kinda vague. Routers such as Cisco are pretty much what makes the world go round as far as the internet goes. You cannot configure BGP or OSPF on a Unix box or a Microsoft box to be general about things. The last time I tried...configuring a dialogic system for telecom on BSD wasn't all that easy either. Companies and individuals will use what they see as being safe and a scalable solution. Even though Unix sometimes has more perks.....Microsoft will have the knowledge base and support to provide a "safer" choice to those that do put the thousands of dollars towards a solution.

Point of post: Until Unix manages to unify the different distributions and gain better software support as well as commercial support....it will tend to stay on the back burners as a professional solution to any company.

Cordially,

Sp1d3r

A polite disagreement if I may.

There is nothing cheap and low end about the Unix presence on the internet. Pay a visit to http://www.netcraft.com and look up just about any site that comes to mind. Netcraft.com has assorted statistics about that site including OS and Webserver type. You will find that the vast majority of sited out there (including very respectable ones) run Solaris, SunOS, a BSD Unix or some other Unix flavor. The most common webserves on the Internet are Apache and Netscape-Enterprise. This site also has `uptime' statistics.

Cheap and low end is far from it really. A Enterprise class Sun server or (Compaq, or IBM etc. ) is $3,000,000 plus. Many sites have moved to something Linux or Free/OpenBSD based due to faster filesystems and very quick turnarounds on patches and bugfixes not found in other Unix flavorss and OS's.

Software support at this level is the best it will ever be. If your comany purchases one of those Sun servers, you will have all the help and support you could ever want, most of the time on-site. Red-Hat, Suse, a few others, and the Proprietary Unix's have support that is absolutely amazing, in many cases you will be working directly with developers of that particular product.
My company runs about 40% Solaris, 20% AIX, 20% Red Hat Linux, and the remainder is made up of Windows NT 4 and 2000 server. The NT and 2000 machines are going away by the beginning of next year, to be replaced by Red Hat servers.
Why? Because MS Support is expensive and the solutions have slow turnaround time. On the other hand, Sun and IBM gave us on site reps that are company gurus on their OS, and Red Hat has proven to be just as responsive and capable of giving us the right answer fast for free or very little money.

No software? What can't you run in Unix? There is even IE 5.x for Solaris. All of the high quality graphics prgrams (Maya, Adobe Photoshop, Nemo, 3D studi etc.) have Unix versions, Oracle was originally a Unix software, all of the development software w require as a company comes free with the OS. The mail servers and other free alternatives that come with Unix have proven for our needs to be suprerior to MS Exchange. Add to that SAMBA, and all of the other things that come with Unix for no extra money and there is no competition.

Routers and Switches and stuff are great, and very nifty indeed, but they are meaningless without a good server behind them.

smtp, udp, tcp, ip, tcp/ip, icmp, ftp, nntp, bootps, sendmail, RPC, NIS, NFS, Samba, telnet, ssh, ssl, irc, uucp, http, shttp, html, DNS, BIND, ipv4, ipv6, tunneling, packet filtering, proxy, kerberos, the OSI model, ethernet, POP, IMAP, DHCP, DES, MD5, PGP, C, C++, PERL, Fortran, Pascal, Awk, SED, the TCP/IP Stack, and many others were developed on Unix systems. Go to http://www.rfc-editor.org and check the RFC's, many of these protocols and internet standards are much older than some may think, and they were all developed on Unix ( Unix was the only real OS back then other than VMS which has it's own stuff).

I simply think that many younger peole and those who have always been MS users do not realize the extent to which the Internet has been around and what influenced it. a bit of trivia: The concept of the present day internet was hashed out in 1963 by Paul Baran of the RAND corporation. It was not until 1972-73 when Unix was rewritten in C and AT&T started giving it away to Universities and research companies that the serious work was done to develop the required protocols. The Internic allowed commercial traffic to hit the net and register for domain names in 1993. Many people that I talk to think this is when the Internet was developed/started. And some of those still believe that Al Gore/Bill Clinton were behind it all. :D

btw: google.com, amazon.com, whitehouse.gov, slashdot.org, fbi.gov, altavista.com, and many others run Linux on their servers, and here is a link to hosts with the longest known uptimes. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html
And here is a link to the top hosting sites in the world by uptime: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/isp.avg.html

hmmmm... there is a lot of Linux and Unix there :D


Good discussion going on here in this thread, Okay, I have done all of the ranting I can do for one week. Have a great weekend everyone.

########### And Happy New Year!!