Linux is Still not more stable!!!

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December 30th, 2001, 04:01 PM
audioluv

Linux is Still not more stable!!!

So after all my linux troubles and you guys saying that there was no way in hell linux was messing up, I found that it cant possibly be my power supply. I gave up linux for the time being, and switched back to windows. Guess what, no crashing no failing for 8 days straight without turning the machine off. If my power supply is messed up then why does it work fine with windows? When I have linux on for more than a couple of hours it just freezes, or the modem just stops working. The power switch doesnt work, and I have to unplug the computer to reboot. For the last time linux is not more stable!!!
December 30th, 2001, 04:07 PM
the_JinX

winmodem

Don't use a winmodem....

it uses a lot of processor power for the modem actions and is not fully supported by linux.
December 30th, 2001, 04:18 PM
audioluv

Re: winmodem

Quote:

Originally posted by the_JinX
Don't use a winmodem....

it uses a lot of processor power for the modem actions and is not fully supported by linux.

First of all I do not use a winmodem. I went to a computer store and out of the 50 different modems they had, 1 was compatible with linux. Its a driverless ISA modem. After a couple of hours I just all of the sudden get disconnected and when I try to reconnect the modem doesnt work. I have to restart to get it to work again. Second I am sick of linux users blaming their problems on hardware. Do you ever think the software could be to blame?
December 30th, 2001, 05:17 PM
dcongram

Yeah....but

audioluv:

As a linux newbie, I had similar problems. I hung in there until I found the problem. (in my case, it was a video card driver)

Once that was 'fixed'.........no more crashes.

Do the normal troubleshooting procedures, and I'm sure you will get it going.
December 30th, 2001, 05:25 PM
UberC0der

Your right audioluv, you should stick to Windows.
December 30th, 2001, 05:59 PM
gaxprels

audioluv,
What versions of Linux have you tried? What hardware do you have?
Video Card, Sound Card, MotherBoard, RAM (amount and type), Hard Drive, Modem, Printer, Monitor, CD Roms/CDR/DVD drived, etc.

It may be that you are trying to do too many things with a weak system. Then again, it may be that you are just too lazy to do any research and learn how to user your system better.

Quote:

Your right audioluv, you should stick to Windows.

Maybe UberC0der is right. I don't know, I'm not in your shoes. (I acutally did the work, have been using linux for a little over 2 years now, and am now learning OpenBSD) Good luck. If you REALLY want to learn linux, try a little harder, and maybe we can help. If you're just looking for someone to hold your hand and spoon feed you, Windows is just what you need.

Happy Hacking
December 30th, 2001, 06:49 PM
MrLinus

You know, I've always found it a shame when I see people give up so easily on a problem. No. Wait. Easily isn't the word I want. Perhaps when people give up on a problem that if they figured it out, the benefits and advantages would be enormous. That's what I'm looking for. I went back over the original thread and saw that much got lost. We ended up with a discussion of which OS lasts longer than the other. I really couldn't care as long as people learn from it.

Audioluv, you've had one bad experience using one of the distributions of linux. I would like to ask you to try again but this time perhaps we can help you. When talking with gaxprels in IRC he commented that he asked for your hardware. I went to check the original thread and noticed that we forgot that very important point. So perhaps you could give us a blow-by-blow of your hardware, as detailed as possible. Video card, chip sets, network cards, audio cards, modem type, cpu, memory, hard drive, etc.

I'm inclined to think that it was as dcongram said. A driver that is being a pain.

I hope that you will reconsider as there is a wonderful world out there when you get to know many OSes. There are huge advantages (and some disadvantages -- do you know how hard it is to look intelligent when teaching linux and you keep typing in dir as a command?).
December 30th, 2001, 07:20 PM
stflook

Linux isn't for dumb people. Not even the easiest distributions like SuSE and Mandrake are very good for computer beginners (I'm not calling you a beginner). Yes, Linux is going to give you more problems when you're first starting out. I went through it, my friend (known to you guys as psychosquee) went through it, and everybody else I have talked to has gone through it. It doesn't do all the work for you like Windows does. Sometimes you have to just stick it out and keep looking until you find the problem. When I first installed Red Hat 7 on my junker machine, I couldn't get my DNS configured. Finally, after days of fighting, I finally found the file with the DNS configuration in it. If I remember right, you're using Mandrake. I haven't done much on that distribution, but still just enough to know that I wasn't too fond of it. I have heard other bad things about the stability of Mandrake, but have never experienced any of them personally. Maybe you should try a different distribution. Red Hat and SuSE have both worked very well for me. Red Hat is available at most computer stores, but SuSE seems to be a little harder to find. If you have a lot of time on your hands, you can try to download it at ftp.suse.com. If you want, I can even try to send you either SuSE 7.3 or Red Hat 7 over the internet. It would take a LONG time, and isn't exactly the kind of thing you transfer over the internet successfully, but if you're interested, I'd be willing to give it a try for you.

I really think you should give Linux another shot. It really is great once you get over the initial problems. It was very recently that I switched over to SuSE 7.3 on this machine, and I don't think I could be talked into going back to Windows.
December 31st, 2001, 02:35 AM
gaxprels

Yes, I seemed to remember you saying it was Mandrake, as well. When people on here ask "Which distribution is good for a beginner?" I tend to say "Mandrake" I forget sometimes that Mandrake likes to put a lot of "bleeding edge" software (beta stuff) in their distribution. Their installation and setup is a breeze for me, but I tend to fix problems as they arise without a second thought now. I do this because of experience. I have been using Linux since late '99 (and tried to use it off and on a couple of years before that.) We quickly did away with Windows on our system. I didn't miss anything (except some of my favorite games that are collecting dust.) I really would like to help. I know others here would, as well. In '99, it took me a month to finally get all of the right hardware. (I had a winmodem, an unsupported (by X) video card, a buggy sound card, and an unsupported printer. After getting the right video card, We couldn't get our monitor to look decent with any of the standard X configurations. I ended up having to learn to hack the X config file by hand to tweak it.) It was rough, and I got flamed a LOT when I asked "dumb" questions, but it was worth it. I expect I will get flamed a LOT while trying to learn OpenBSD. The BSD community seems to think Linux users are almost as worthless as Windows users. Good luck, and please let us help, if you are still interested in learning.

Happy Hacking
December 31st, 2001, 05:51 AM
UberC0der

I am willing to help out, but on these conditions only.

1. That you start looking at this as a fun challenge by which you stand to actually learn a thing or two about computer hardware and how the OS works.

2. Next I want to know about your, HDD, Video Card, Sound Card, Modem, Ethernet Card, CDROM, DVD, CDRW, SCSI or IDE?, Motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc, you get the idea.

3. Then I want you to post the output of dmesg to this board if you want help. If you do not know how to do this, open a terminal and as `su' type:
# dmesg > dmesg.txt

Then paste that into your post so we can see what the kernel has to say.

I also want to see your XFree86.0.log, you can find it under /var/log

4. Are you using an NVIDIA video card? If so are you using the NVIDIA driver? things like that.

If you do these things, or at least attempt to do them the best you can, I will help you.

If you are too lazy to do any of this, or do any reading for yourself and want a canned insta-answer then go back to Windows.

You will get no sympathy from Unix hackers when you complain about little isues if you have no desire to reasearch the issue and gain from the experience. Especially from someone like myself who has had to write device drivers to get a peice of hardware to work.
December 31st, 2001, 09:59 AM
audioluv

UberCoder, it is hard to respect any knowledge you may have if you continue to look down on me as a clueless newbie. First of all dont insult anyone who decides to try something new and different. Second if my interest in linux isnt apparent enough, I spent a good week getting it installed, and then after the modem wouldnt work I ran out and bought a new one just so it would. Now if I posted saying "Windows keeps crashing so I'm giving up on windows" noone would think anything of it. My intention by posting is to not only find a solution to my problem and get this OS that I spent so much time on, to work right again, but also to warn new users linux is not free from problems and super stable like so many claim. I was sick of getting the same crap about my power supply when it wasnt the problem.

As for my hardware(which I am 90% sure is not to blame) I use a 433 mhz intel celeron processor, 288mb Ram, 4.3 gig hard drive, ISA Linux compatible 56k modem, pci network interface card, integrated AGP video card, 40x cdrom, and 8x cd burner. The sound card is integrated into the board and it works fine. I also use a ATA66 pci hard drive controller card. After I finally got Mandrake 8.1 installed these problems arose.

Dont go insulting me after all not many people even try linux, and even less have gone as far as I have. UberCoder:

[root@mybox audioluv]# dmesg
Linux version 2.4.8-26mdk ([email protected]) (gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.1 2.96-0.62mdk)) #1 Sun Sep 23 17:06:39 CEST 2001
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
BIOS-e820: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009fc00 (usable)
BIOS-e820: 000000000009fc00 - 00000000000a0000 (reserved)
BIOS-e820: 00000000000e0000 - 0000000000100000 (reserved)
BIOS-e820: 0000000000100000 - 0000000012000000 (usable)
BIOS-e820: 00000000fec00000 - 00000000fec01000 (reserved)
BIOS-e820: 00000000fee00000 - 00000000fee01000 (reserved)
BIOS-e820: 00000000fffc0000 - 0000000100000000 (reserved)
On node 0 totalpages: 73728
zone(0): 4096 pages.
zone(1): 69632 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
Kernel command line: initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/hda1 hdh=ide-scsi devfs=mount BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz
ide_setup: hdh=ide-scsi
Initializing CPU#0
Detected 434.324 MHz processor.
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 865.07 BogoMIPS
Memory: 287068k/294912k available (1086k kernel code, 7456k reserved, 397k data, 712k init, 0k highmem)
Dentry-cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 7, 524288 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
Mount-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
Buffer-cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 131072 (order: 7, 524288 bytes)
CPU: Before vendor init, caps: 0183fbff 00000000 00000000, vendor = 0
CPU: L1 I cache: 16K, L1 D cache: 16K
CPU: L2 cache: 128K
Intel machine check architecture supported.
Intel machine check reporting enabled on CPU#0.
CPU: After vendor init, caps: 0183fbff 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: After generic, caps: 0183fbff 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: Common caps: 0183fbff 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: Intel Celeron (Mendocino) stepping 05
Enabling fast FPU save and restore... done.
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
mtrr: v1.40 (20010327) Richard Gooch ([email protected])
mtrr: detected mtrr type: Intel
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfdba1, last bus=1
PCI: Using configuration type 1
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
PCI: Using IRQ router PIIX [8086/7110] at 00:07.0
Limiting direct PCI/PCI transfers.
isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards...
isapnp: No Plug & Play device found
PnP: PNP BIOS installation structure at 0xc00f76a0
PnP: PNP BIOS version 1.0, entry at f0000:6c04, dseg at f0000
PnPBIOS: PNP0c02: request 0x400-0x440 ok
PnPBIOS: PNP0c02: request 0x440-0x450 ok
PnPBIOS: PNP0c02: request 0x4d0-0x4d2 ok
PnPBIOS: PNP0c02: request 0xcf8-0xd00
PnPBIOS: PNP0c02: request 0x295-0x297 ok
PnP: 14 devices detected total
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Initializing RT netlink socket
apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.14)
Starting kswapd v1.8
VFS: Diskquotas version dquot_6.5.0 initialized
devfs: v0.115 (20010827) Richard Gooch ([email protected])
devfs: boot_options: 0x1
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with HUB-6 MANY_PORTS MULTIPORT SHARE_IRQ SERIAL_PCI ISAPNP enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A
ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A
block: queued sectors max/low 190117kB/63372kB, 576 slots per queue
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.31
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
PIIX4: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
PIIX4: chipset revision 1
PIIX4: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xffa0-0xffa7, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xffa8-0xffaf, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
HPT366: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 90
PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 00:12.0
PCI: Sharing IRQ 11 with 00:12.1
HPT366: chipset revision 1
HPT366: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide2: BM-DMA at 0xe000-0xe007, BIOS settings: hde:pio, hdf:pio
HPT366: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 91
PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 00:12.1
PCI: Sharing IRQ 11 with 00:12.0
HPT366: chipset revision 1
HPT366: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide3: BM-DMA at 0xe800-0xe807, BIOS settings: hdg:pio, hdh:pio
hd1: C/H/S=0/0/0 from BIOS ignored
hda: SAMSUNG SV0432D, ATA DISK drive
hdc: SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-140, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hdh: PCRW804, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
ide3 at 0xeff0-0xeff7,0xefe6 on irq 11
hda: 8421840 sectors (4312 MB) w/480KiB Cache, CHS=8912/15/63, UDMA(33)
hdc: ATAPI 40X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache, DMA
Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12
ide-floppy driver 0.97
Partition check:
/dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: [PTBL] [524/255/63] p1 p2 < p5 p6 >
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077
ide-floppy driver 0.97
md: md driver 0.90.0 MAX_MD_DEVS=256, MD_SB_DISKS=27
md: Autodetecting RAID arrays.
md: autorun ...
md: ... autorun DONE.
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
IP: routing cache hash table of 2048 buckets, 16Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32768 bind 32768)
Linux IP multicast router 0.06 plus PIM-SM
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0
Uncompressing...done.
Freeing initrd memory: 32k freed
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
Mounted devfs on /dev
8139too Fast Ethernet driver 0.9.18a
PCI: Found IRQ 10 for device 00:13.0
eth0: RealTek RTL8139 Fast Ethernet at 0xd2807f00, 00:c0:26:63:4d:54, IRQ 10
eth0: Identified 8139 chip type 'RTL-8139C'
Freeing unused kernel memory: 712k freed
Real Time Clock Driver v1.10d
Adding Swap: 248968k swap-space (priority -1)
SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00
scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices
Vendor: PHILIPS Model: PCRW804 Rev: 2,1
Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs
usb.c: registered new driver hub
usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.259 $ time 17:30:17 Sep 23 2001
usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled
PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:07.2
PCI: Sharing IRQ 9 with 00:0b.0
usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xef80, IRQ 9
usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports
usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
usb-uhci.c: v1.251:USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver
ip_tables: (c)2000 Netfilter core team
ip_conntrack (2304 buckets, 18432 max)
PnPBIOS: Parport found PNPBIOS PNP0400 at io=0378,0000 irq=7 dma=-1
parport0: PC-style at 0x378, irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE]
parport0: cpp_daisy: aa5500ff(38)
parport0: assign_addrs: aa5500ff(38)
parport0: cpp_daisy: aa5500ff(38)
parport0: assign_addrs: aa5500ff(38)
IPVS: Connection hash table configured (size=4096, memory=32Kbytes)
IPVS: ipvs loaded.
eth0: Setting half-duplex based on auto-negotiated partner ability 0000.
task `ip' exit_signal 17 in reparent_to_init
Installing knfsd (copyright (C) 1996 [email protected]).
PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:0b.0
PCI: Sharing IRQ 9 with 00:07.2
Crystal 4280/46xx + AC97 Audio, version 1.28.32, 17:27:37 Sep 23 2001
cs46xx: Card found at 0xfebef000 and 0xfea00000, IRQ 9
cs46xx: Card without SSID set (0000:0000) at 0xfebef000/0xfea00000, IRQ 9
ac97_codec: AC97 Audio codec, id: 0x4352:0x5913 (Cirrus Logic CS4297A rev A)
CSLIP: code copyright 1989 Regents of the University of California
PPP generic driver version 2.4.1
PPP BSD Compression module registered
PPP Deflate Compression module registered
auditIN=ppp0 OUT= MAC= SRC=65.100.137.196 DST=65.165.53.31 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=51 ID=46744 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=2687 DPT=111 WINDOW=32120 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0
December 31st, 2001, 12:33 PM
MrLinus

Audioluv,

Thanks for all the info on your machine. Could you however put the make and model of the nic, modem and video? Video in particular can be buggy especially on-board video. There is one that I've had experience with in the past that can do anything from freeze an install to make your GUI interface look funky.
December 31st, 2001, 01:15 PM
UberC0der

Ok audioluv, I can work with this :D

I am focusing on two things in dmseg that catch my attention here. First is that you mention that you have an ATA66 controller card, and second that the kernel is using devfs, which is Ok, but if we don't get a resolution with HDD settings, we may want to look at devfs.

<snip> # this is what I am looking at in dmesg and why I am suggesting the solution below.

ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
PIIX4: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
PIIX4: chipset revision 1
PIIX4: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xffa0-0xffa7, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xffa8-0xffaf, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
HPT366: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 90
PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 00:12.0
PCI: Sharing IRQ 11 with 00:12.1
HPT366: chipset revision 1
HPT366: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide2: BM-DMA at 0xe000-0xe007, BIOS settings: hde:pio, hdf:pio
HPT366: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 91
PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 00:12.1
PCI: Sharing IRQ 11 with 00:12.0
HPT366: chipset revision 1
HPT366: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide3: BM-DMA at 0xe800-0xe807, BIOS settings: hdg:pio, hdh:pio
hd1: C/H/S=0/0/0 from BIOS ignored
hda: SAMSUNG SV0432D, ATA DISK drive
hdc: SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-140, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hdh: PCRW804, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
ide3 at 0xeff0-0xeff7,0xefe6 on irq 11
hda: 8421840 sectors (4312 MB) w/480KiB Cache, CHS=8912/15/63, UDMA(33)
hdc: ATAPI 40X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache, DMA
Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12
ide-floppy driver 0.97
Partition check:
/dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: [PTBL] [524/255/63] p1 p2 < p5 p6 >

Let's start with your HDD configuration. We could probably improve on what we have going on here. Using the `hdparm' command, here is a suggestion that may (hopefully) resolve your problem.

From `dmesg' I can see that you have one HDD and it is named hda ( the default first hdd device name). It is currently running in UDMA 33 and we have some room for improvement there.

Open a teminal emulator and su to root. Now, we want to get some info about your hard drive, so using the hdparm command with the -I option...

example:
[root@yourbox:~]# hdparm -I /dev/hda

The output will look something like this.

/dev/hda:

Model=CI530L04VARE700- , FwRev=REO44AA4, SerialNo= S PXXTT07329
Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=40
BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=1916kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=-66060037, LBA=yes, LBAsects=80418240
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 *mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5
AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255)
Drive Supports : ATA/ATAPI-5 T13 1321D revision 1 : ATA-2 ATA-3 ATA-4 ATA-5

Next, go ahead and see what your HDD speed is currently.

Example:

[root@yourbox: ~]# hdparm -t /dev/hda

example output:

Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 5.85 seconds = 11.2 MB/sec

Your HDD is currently running in 16 bit and unmask is 0 (off) so we want to optimize these to what they should be.

[root@yourbox: ~]# hdparm -c3 -m16 /dev/hda

Now run `hdparm -t /dev/hda' again see what it says, any improvement?

Lets enable DMA, and DMA2

[root@yourbox: ~]# hdparm -d1 -X34 /dev/hda

Now we want to set the unmask bit to "on"

[root@yourbox: ~]# hdparm -u1 /dev/hda

Computer still running? :D Ok, now we just need to read the output of `hdparm -I /dev/hda' on the line "PIO Modes:" and see what the highest PIO mode is that we can set to. In my example above it was pio4, my guess is that yours will be pio3, but check it to make sure.

Using pio3 as an example, we need to set the pio mode on the drive.

[root@yourbox: ~]# hdparm -p3 /dev/hda

These settings will not be around the next time you boot, so we need to put them in a place that initd will find and set them for us on every boot. We are going to add a line to rc.local to accomplish this.

so....

[root@yourbox: ~]# cd /etc/rc.d && vi rc.local

We add the following line to whatever is in this file.

hdparm -c3 -m16 -d1 -X34 -u1 -p3 /dev/hda

Then save and exit and you are all done.

I hope this helps you out, if it does not, I am happy to keep helping you, just let me know a few more details about what is happening, what you are doing at the time etc.

And hopefully.. after we get your Linux install working the way it *should be* you will have a lot of fun with it and learn some nifty stuff. :D

Happy New Year everyone!!!!
December 31st, 2001, 02:02 PM
Vorlin

Re: Linux is Still not more stable!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by audioluv
So after all my linux troubles and you guys saying that there was no way in hell linux was messing up, I found that it cant possibly be my power supply. I gave up linux for the time being, and switched back to windows. Guess what, no crashing no failing for 8 days straight without turning the machine off. If my power supply is messed up then why does it work fine with windows? When I have linux on for more than a couple of hours it just freezes, or the modem just stops working. The power switch doesnt work, and I have to unplug the computer to reboot. For the last time linux is not more stable!!!

*read through the post stating to not be insulted by UberC0Der*

Audioluv,

UberC0der is not entirely off the mark. I myself would be glad to help you out but do you know how many people sit there and say Linux is not more stable all because of the whatever reason? This is the second post that you've stated where linux is not more stable and no doubt, it's because of something simple. That's 90% of the problems with computers. And yet you're willing to go back to windows, which will crash inevitably and a whole lot more than linux will. Where's the "I want to learn and do better" attitude in that? And then consider yourself insulted by UberC0der when he states in specific terms what he's willing to do. This support is free and by far a lot more than you'll *ever* get from MS "tech" support. *nix hackers are not a social group yet are willing to help fix a problem. Know that now.

Anyways, on to your problem. :D I'm guessing that if your modem stops working (and out of *50* modems, only *1* was compatible? I think there's just a few more compatible than that), or if your system totally locks up, it's going to be hardware bound. If the PS is not the problem then it's going to be something else.
How is your BIOS configured? Is "PNP OS" set to yes or no? It should be no. That right there has gotten a few people. How your HD is set up also affects a lot of things, as UberC0der has stated.

Overall, my post is just to let you know that we get a lot of complaints from linux users who're new to the scene and aren't willing to fix the problem because it's a CLI issue and they're blatantly afraid of it. Once you get comfortable with the CLI, you'll never worry again. Trust me on that one. Also, feel free to PM me with any problems you might have and I'll try to help out. We *are* here to help and yes, linux *is* better than what you've encountered so far. We'll get there. :D

BTW, have you seen LOTR? That movie ROCKED!

:: pets the CLI :: my preciouuuuuusssss....
December 31st, 2001, 02:19 PM
UberC0der

geeeeez, sheeeesh! Absolutely right Vorlin! :D

It's the little things that you forget to tell people. :D

audioluv, check that the BIOS is *not* set to PNP = `yes' or `on' as Vorlin said before you do the above.

if it is `no' or `off', go ahead and proceed and let us know how you are doing.
December 31st, 2001, 02:40 PM
Vorlin

Hehe, that was one of those "Hey, let's put this to yes because Windows is PNP right?" situations that ended up screwing me over... You learn something new every day :D ...

Happy new year to everyone!
January 1st, 2002, 11:07 PM
rcgreen

Yeah. LINUX isn't more stable.
On my first linux system, I started
this lame program called EMACS,
Idon't know what it does.
I couldn't get out of emacs (no menus)
so I hit the power button.
After that, LINUX wouldn't
boot!
:cool:
January 2nd, 2002, 01:10 AM
UberC0der

Quote:

I started
this lame program called EMACS,
Idon't know what it does.
I couldn't get out of emacs (no menus)
so I hit the power button.
After that, LINUX wouldn't
boot!

Yet another case of RTFM.

Had you RTFM, you would have known how to operate all of the menu's, and you would have known how to exit the program, and you would have known that EMACS comes with a built in tutorial. And you would have known that just killing the power is a very bad idea, but then... you should have already known that.

If EMACS is so lame why does about half of the software in the Unix world get written in EMACS?
Coincidently the other half (speaking in approximate terms here) is written in vi, for which there is also a manual.

hmmm... that would lead me to believe that it is NOT lame.

In the future try `man command-name', that will save you a lot of frustration.
January 2nd, 2002, 04:23 AM
rcgreen

ED is the default unix editor.
:cool:
January 2nd, 2002, 05:34 AM
freeOn

Linux is not more stable, Well so far it hasn't crashed and it beats my windows box.
January 2nd, 2002, 05:39 PM
Vorlin

To not be crass towards those new to linux and trying to have some level of understanding concerning the mentality of windows users, here's a few points.

1: Linux is more stable and secure right out of the box!
If you install it without a hitch, yes, it will be more stable. If you configure stuff wrong, no it won't be more stable. As for security, BSD is the only one that's REALLY REALLY secure right out of the box. Security = 1 / convenience. However secure you want your box, expect to spend exponentially more time with it, monitoring logs, shutting down services not needed, port scanning your machine, nmapping your network to see where things go, etc etc. You get the drift.

2: But I didn't have to do this with Windows!
Yeah, you didn't. You just fall into the category of 'whipped MS-led sheep'. You also didn't question Windows dying every day, sucking up your memory, etc etc. Instead, it's one of those "These things just happen" or "Well that's windows for you".

Linux has one thing that MS will never ever get or comprehend: the ability to change anything you want. You want login to say "Welcome Master, how can I serve you today?", sure thing, just get the source to login, change it, compile it, move it into production, and booya, there you go. And that's just 1 of oh...thousands of things you can do. And it's free. And it's supported by a bunch of people who do it for free. Try getting anything other than netmeeting, IE, or WMP from MS for free.

To sum up UberC0der's message: RTFM (it's really that easy)
Use 'man', as mentioned. 'man man' will help you figure out how to use it, and from there, you can find anything out.

Last note: long live vi! Down with emacs! *flees from emacs lovers* :D :D :D
January 2nd, 2002, 06:57 PM
chsh

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorlin
1: Linux is more stable and secure right out of the box!
If you install it without a hitch, yes, it will be more stable. If you configure stuff wrong, no it won't be more stable. As for security, BSD is the only one that's REALLY REALLY secure right out of the box. Security = 1 / convenience. However secure you want your box, expect to spend exponentially more time with it, monitoring logs, shutting down services not needed, port scanning your machine, nmapping your network to see where things go, etc etc. You get the drift.

Vorlin, the first line of what you wrote is a dangerous generalisation. Linux in and of itself (as in a compiled kernel without services) is very much more secure than say, Win9x/ME. Unfortunately, most people consider linux to mean a distro, and security varies from distro to distro. I'm glad to see RedHat finally shaping up and locking down their boxes by default, but it wasn't that long ago that shipping versions of RedHat (6.2, 7.0, 7.1) had serious vulnerabilities in services that were started by default.

Quote:

Linux has one thing that MS will never ever get or comprehend: the ability to change anything you want. You want login to say "Welcome Master, how can I serve you today?", sure thing, just get the source to login, change it, compile it, move it into production, and booya, there you go.

Funny thing you should say that... :p

Quote:

Last note: long live vi! Down with emacs! *flees from emacs lovers* :D :D :D

Psst: I'm with you on this. ;)
January 2nd, 2002, 07:32 PM
Vorlin

Quote:

Vorlin, the first line of what you wrote is a dangerous generalisation. Linux in and of itself (as in a compiled kernel without services) is very much more secure than say, Win9x/ME. Unfortunately, most people consider linux to mean a distro, and security varies from distro to distro. I'm glad to see RedHat finally shaping up and locking down their boxes by default, but it wasn't that long ago that shipping versions of RedHat (6.2, 7.0, 7.1) had serious vulnerabilities in services that were started by default.

Oh, the first line wasn't me stating that. I've had people say that before and the way I define 'stable' is this:

1: you don't have to reboot 10x times to get everything running.
2: your memory isn't chewed up, hence another reboot.
3: generally speaking, a linux box isn't going to be on the internet right off the rip, so that's more secure right there.

I'm just stating that without hitches, it's generally a lot better although I definitely do NOT condone leaving it that way. 5 minutes of education is amazing.
January 2nd, 2002, 07:39 PM
rcgreen

VI should be renamed eVIl.
as for EMACS what can you say?
Live and learn, and read those man pages.
:cool:
January 2nd, 2002, 07:53 PM
Vorlin

chsh, also, another thing I remembered. At least linux hasn't suffered the gross negligence that Sun did a few years back when they released a version of Solaris (can't remember right now) where the root's .rhosts had a + in it by default. THAT'S insecure, hehe...

And yes, I'm glad to see RH finally shaping up too. Then again, they've been in the market almost the longest and are finally in the black for profit.
January 2nd, 2002, 09:49 PM
chsh

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorlin
Oh, the first line wasn't me stating that. I've had people say that before and the way I define 'stable' is this:

1: you don't have to reboot 10x times to get everything running.
2: your memory isn't chewed up, hence another reboot.
3: generally speaking, a linux box isn't going to be on the internet right off the rip, so that's more secure right there.

I'm just stating that without hitches, it's generally a lot better although I definitely do NOT condone leaving it that way. 5 minutes of education is amazing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It seemed to me like you were saying it was more secure out of the box.
One thing I think bears repeating (this isn't directed at you Vorlin, but rather just a general comment) is that regardless of the OS you're running, you need to take steps to make it more secure. How secure an OS can be is really what varies, but even with Win2k's horrible track record, there are measures you can take to lock it down.

Quote:

chsh, also, another thing I remembered. At least linux hasn't suffered the gross negligence that Sun did a few years back when they released a version of Solaris (can't remember right now) where the root's .rhosts had a + in it by default. THAT'S insecure, hehe...

And yes, I'm glad to see RH finally shaping up too. Then again, they've been in the market almost the longest and are finally in the black for profit

Very true. That's a very good illustration as to why it's imperative to work to secure your box, and not assume it's perfectly invincible out of the box.
January 3rd, 2002, 01:24 AM
taboo

Uber C0der:
Thanks for the info on hdparm :)
You learn something new everyday!
January 3rd, 2002, 06:32 AM
stflook

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorlin

[B]To not be crass towards those new to linux and trying to have some level of understanding concerning the mentality of windows users, here's a few points.

1: Linux is more stable and secure right out of the box!

If you install it without a hitch, yes, it will be more stable. If you configure stuff wrong, no it won't be more stable. /B]

Where were you 6 months ago, Vorlin? Why weren't you there when I needed you!?

Sadly, this is very true. I had to learn it the hard way. About 6 months ago, when I decided to try Linux (with Red Hat 7), I flew through the install like one would when installing Windows. Later that day, it died. Three or four shoddy installs later, I finally figured it out. I read everything carefully, installed only what I needed, took extra care to configure my hardware right, and it works just great. I haven't rebooted it in over a month and a half. The only time I shut it down is for thunderstorms.

About a week ago, I got SuSE. Hearing about how easy it was supposed to be, mixed with the excitement of a new OS, I flew through the install, and right afterward, went straight to adding packages. In my hurry, I didn't read the package conflict warnings, and it finally took the big **** on me this morning, taking my ENTIRE English paper with it. After a very careful install and config today, it works absolutely perfectly, and is performing above and beyond what I would come to expect from Linux.

Let this be a lesson to all you current and soon-to-be Linux newbies! Linux is NOT Windows. It does not do your work for you. You have to take the extra time to do it right. If you're new to Linux, it may take you several installs to get it right. Even the easiest distributions require careful install and configuration. If it doesn't work the first time, don't be discouraged! Everybody hits a few bumps the first time or two through it. Just be patient, and you will start to pick it up. It takes time (and maybe some books and sedatives :D).
January 3rd, 2002, 12:50 PM
UberC0der

Perhaps I can give some advice to newbies.

Keep in mind that Unix based OS's are more or less designed by programmers for programmers. It is assumed that you are going to read all of the documentation that comes with the software and that you are going to follow those instructions. If it does not work, it is assumed that you are going to attempt to fix it and email the developer with a bug report, or about what you had to do to get it to compile. Does this mean that all Unix based software is BETA? Absolutely not, but keep in mind that this kind of exchange between developers and end-users is as old as the OS itself. This is the essence of Open Source, the developers and end-users both work on the software to make a better final product.

Conversely, the MS world assumes that you are not gouing to read the documentation, and that you would not know what the problem is and how to fix it. This is not bad, it is just the difference in who MS and Software developers for Windows have traditionaly sold software too.

Keep the 3 sacred commandments of Unix hackers in mind when running a Unix based OS:

#1 Read the documenation and instructions
(RTFM).

#2 Follow the instructions.

#3 See #1.

Of course Unix based OS's are not as easy as MS, but you are going to learn a crap load about computers, regardless of how much you think you know now.
January 3rd, 2002, 01:22 PM
Vorlin

Quote:

Where were you 6 months ago, Vorlin? Why weren't you there when I needed you!?

Hehe, probably getting laid off because I was one of two expendable people (unix admins).

Quote:

One thing I think bears repeating (this isn't directed at you Vorlin, but rather just a general comment) is that regardless of the OS you're running, you need to take steps to make it more secure.

This is the most true statement I've read all week. Getting a little more of an understanding how the operating system you just installed works is more beneficial than one can know. It's kind of like an anti-virus program. You configure it right and it just sits there, making you wonder if you did something right, when blakow! it stops a virus that came from a file that didn't have an extension because you made sure that you 'scanned files without an extension', making it all the more worthwhile. Just for note, I'll make sure I don't make generalized dangerous statements like an OS is secure right out of the box, even if it's mimicking someone who said that to me.